Roethsberger v. Manning

[pinnacle]

what was the real problem with Leaf? I was under the impression it was not athletic ability - but that he was either unwilling or not smart enough to review tape and figure what what defenses were doing...coupled with the fact that he was not that interested in hitting the weight room and getting better..plus he had a bad attitude. Is that a correct assessment? or is there more to the story...seems like he got his huge signing bonus and then kind of lost interest...

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Concur

Originally posted by Snakester
After watching Ben Roethlisberger last night, I feel a lot better about our chances in the draft. We no longer have to have the #1 pick. I would take Manning or Roethlisberger and be happy. I have seen Manning in four games this year. I think he will be a very good NFL QB. I have only seen Berger in last nights game, but he looked like he could be another Dan Marino. He looked so poised and threw the ball long and short so effortlessly that he should be a franchise QB with out a doubt. Right now I am more impressed with Roethlisberger than I am with Manning. We will get to see him in a bowl game next. If he is this impressive in his next game he will be the #1 pick ahead of Manning in April.

Agree with ya buddy 100% (surprise...surprise)!!!

I still like Manning and would not be upset if we drafted him before Big Ben....when you said Berger there for a minute I said who the h-e double hockey stick is that!!!

My biggest fear is that we pass on both.

 

[Mrospi]

What if Larry Fitzgerald is allowed in the draft? What if we chose him??? Sign another FA at QB??? Is that bad? Who could cover our receiving core then??? As long as we can get a competent free agent to come in......Blake & Parsons the back-ups

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Yeah

Originally posted by Mrospi
What if Larry Fitzgerald is allowed in the draft? What if we chose him??? Sign another FA at QB??? Is that bad? Who could cover our receiving core then??? As long as we can get a competent free agent to come in......Blake & Parsons the back-ups

We'll sign someone like Jeff Blake.......Jeff Blake is like Jeff Blake!!!


Ooops....been there done that.

 

[Mrospi]

Of course, with Fitzgerald added, that would be another weapon to use....Boldin & Johnson will have 1 year of experience.... I can't think of a secondary that can stay with these guys except maybe Seattle or Miami maybe.....

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Mrospi
Of course, with Fitzgerald added, that would be another weapon to use....Boldin & Johnson will have 1 year of experience.... I can't think of a secondary that can stay with these guys except maybe Seattle or Miami maybe.....

am I the only one who thinks Fitzgerald is now a bit overrated?

Great player for sure but Miami held him to 3 catches, if he's let in I don't expect him to be the next Quan let alone the next Moss in year 1.

 

[Lex]

Roethlisberger ...

Roe...thl...is...berger.

David Lee Roth.

Ernie Els.

Burger.

Roth...Els...Burger.

Roethlisberger.

I'll take that guy.

 

[jf-08]

I don't know if I would ever want a QB whose last name can be broken into "Regis Brotheler" (or Throbeler)

 

[Mrospi]

He is definitely one of the top college WR's.... I would be as happy with Rashaun Woods or Roy Williams too... if we were to go wr.....If we go Wr.... I would try to drop down a couple spots and pick up some extra picks because 1 of the 3 should be left around pick 12 and you still may end up with the best guy and extra picks....Then maybe Philip Rivers slips to Round #2 for us?? You get a top flight WR & still possibly a very good QB

 

[Harry]

I think Manning is far and away the best choice for the Cards.

1. He can read defenses like a 3rd year NFL QB. This is critical behind a line that is only mediocre at pass protection. It also adds up to a lot more crucial third down conversions when teams blitz, as they love to do to the Cards.

2. He has played against better competition. Year after year, the SEC turns out some of the best corners in the game. The Mac is a running conference and features better linebackers than defensive backs. The SEC also features faster pass rushers. The speed issue alone with be a big adjustment for Mr. R.

3. Manning has played before bigger crowds and in noisier stadiums consistently and has played well.

4. Manning has been groomed by NFL savvy people all his life. He know more about all aspects of the game than Mr. R. Look at the team around Manning. Miami might have better players. Manning elevates the play of his team like no other college QB.

5. Manning chose to go to a weak program and built it into a winner. Anyone think of an NFL franchise that need that attitude? He didn't complain about what he didn't have. He found ways to win with what he did have.

6. He stayed in school to fine tune his game. He had the option of likely being a top 10 pick last year and passed. He gambled he could move up this year and he backed it up on the field.

7. Manning has virtually zero downside. Everyone I have talked with who knows the game, says he may not be a star, but he will be a competent QB. You can't pass on something that close to a sure thing. Many felt he was a definite Pro Bowl player and rated him ahead of his brother.

The Cards cannot afford any more first round blunders. Manning is the surest thing on the planet. Mr. R could be even better, but the Cards are not in a position to take that gamble.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Big Ben

I agree with you Harry and I pray we draft Eli if he is there.

The problem is that he may not be there.

Would you draft Big Ben if Eli was gone?

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Harry
I think Manning is far and away the best choice for the Cards.

1. He can read defenses like a 3rd year NFL QB. This is critical behind a line that is only mediocre at pass protection. It also adds up to a lot more crucial third down conversions when teams blitz, as they love to do to the Cards.

2. He has played against better competition. Year after year, the SEC turns out some of the best corners in the game. The Mac is a running conference and features better linebackers than defensive backs. The SEC also features faster pass rushers. The speed issue alone with be a big adjustment for Mr. R.

23 QB's in division 1 over 3000 yards passing, 4 from the mac.

43 RB's in division 1 over 1000 yards rushing, 4 from the mac.

Of the top 5 teams in the MAC, 4 are "passing teams".

I do agree Manning is clearly better prepared and there's less risk. Manning will NOT be a bust, he may be great he may just be good but he's not going to be Akili Smith. Roethlisberger MAY turn out to be better, or he may turn out to be the next Druckenmiller.

I will say he impressed me a lot more than Druckenmiller did, but I thought Ryan Leaf was a better prospect than Peyton Manning, of course in college nobody told us what a complete doofus he was.

I guess what I liked about last night was I'm now less convinced we have to pick first to get our QB. I'm not convinced we will pick first, and it may not be up to us to decide, maybe they prefer the bigger arm and we still get Manning, maybe not and we get Ben.

Quite frankly before last night I thought the hype on Ben was overdone, now I don't. The numbers are very comparable to Pennington and Leftwich both of whom have proven they belong in the NFL.

 

[Lex]

Harry-

The Cards are also not in position to pick Manning. Oakland has control of that situation, and I would be shocked if Oakland wins any more games this year.

Roethlisberger has that "aw shucks" small school outlook like Chad Pennington. His quotes in the paper this morning sounded just like what Boldin would say. (what a great tandem that would be)

I don't really think we could go wrong with either, but I'll take Roth Els Burger.

 

[pinnacle]

harry...great post. I strongly concur that the Cardinals will not be in the mood or position to be risk takers and take Mr. R. If they are both on the board - they will take Manning.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Yes

"Quite frankly before last night I thought the hype on Ben was overdone, now I don't. The numbers are very comparable to Pennington and Leftwich both of whom have proven they belong in the NFL."

My point exactly.

You pick Eli maybe if he's there.

You pass on Big Ben like you did on Leftwich and you get a sucky QB when the new stadium opens....that spells.....O-*******.

 

[Russ Smith]

Re: Yes

Originally posted by BuckeyeCardinal
"Quite frankly before last night I thought the hype on Ben was overdone, now I don't. The numbers are very comparable to Pennington and Leftwich both of whom have proven they belong in the NFL."

My point exactly.

You pick Eli maybe if he's there.

You pass on Big Ben like you did on Leftwich and you get a sucky QB when the new stadium opens....that spells.....O-*******.

Plus Ben fits with Heimerdinger in the long weird last name category.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Re: Re: Yes

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Plus Ben fits with Heimerdinger in the long weird last name category.

 

[Assface]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Ben is actually smaller and more agile than Leftwich and while he's not setting the NFL on fire, Byron is not getting blitzed to death. He's had his problems with the rush at times, some fumbles, lots of picks, but you won't find any NFL people who are down on him so far. He's only been sacked 15 times this year, he gets rid of the ball, looked like Ben can too. Biggest problem Leftwich has had so far is fumbling, 9 already(not all lost) and Ben is a better runner than Byron.

I think Byron is more polished at this time, he's a better pure passer but I was really impressed last night with ben.

I haven't gotten a chance to see Rothcheeseburger yet, how quick of a release does he have? Someone said they're not sure if his motions are slow or effortless. The reason someone like Leftwhich can be slow without getting sacked is 1. recognizing what the defense is doing so you know where to throw right away and 2. being able to get rid of the ball before anyone gets to you. Dan Marino had cinder blocks on his feet yet he was very hard to sack. Someone with 100 career rushing yards doesn't accomplish that with athleticism. If Ben can read a defense and get rid of the ball quickly he could be very successful. If he has a slow windup or doesn't understand what's going on around him, he won't be long for this league.

Thoughts?

 

[Mrospi]

What a perfect marketing campaign.... get a Rothlesberger at Whataburger.....

 

[earthsci]

Originally posted by Assface
Thoughts?

If we don't draft #1 give up this year's and next year's #1 to move into that position to get Eli.

 

[Mrospi]

Nope too much to give up.... Just pick the Best player available.... QB's Manning & Rothlesberger.... or WR Fitzgerald, Williams, Woods, Winslow Jr....If the guy you really want is not there, trade down to picks 10-14...... I figure on these guys will be left and you get extra picks from the team that is moving up... maybe and extra 2nd or 3rd round pick

 

[earthsci]

Originally posted by Mrospi
Nope too much to give up.... Just pick the Best player available.... QB's Manning & Rothlesberger.... or WR Fitzgerald, Williams, Woods, Winslow Jr....If the guy you really want is not there, trade down to picks 10-14...... I figure on these guys will be left and you get extra picks from the team that is moving up... maybe and extra 2nd or 3rd round pick

So which one of our last five first round draft picks would you not sacrifice for a franchise QB?

 

[Mrospi]

I am sure San Diego, Cincinnati, Chicago all thought they had the can't mis Qb's too.... Leaf, Smith, McNown..... it's not an exact science.... If Manning is there I would probably take him.... Same with Rothlesberger....but unless we pick #1 or #2.... we might be out of luck and I don't want to give up another #1 pick for a QB that still might end up being a bust....then you have really screwed things up for the future...If both those guys are gone.. trade down and pick the best difference maker on the board, i believe that would be at WR.... probably one of the deeper position's on the board.... any of the top 4 could make a big difference.... (fitzgerald, williams, woods, winslow jr) if we trad down and end up with one of them and then roll the dice in the 2nd round with Rivers or Losman it's possible these guys do just as good a job as Manning would, you just don't know......

and then Next years #1.... who knows

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Assface
I haven't gotten a chance to see Rothcheeseburger yet, how quick of a release does he have? Someone said they're not sure if his motions are slow or effortless. The reason someone like Leftwhich can be slow without getting sacked is 1. recognizing what the defense is doing so you know where to throw right away and 2. being able to get rid of the ball before anyone gets to you. Dan Marino had cinder blocks on his feet yet he was very hard to sack. Someone with 100 career rushing yards doesn't accomplish that with athleticism. If Ben can read a defense and get rid of the ball quickly he could be very successful. If he has a slow windup or doesn't understand what's going on around him, he won't be long for this league.

Thoughts?

Well listen here assface

That was only my 2nd look at him and first complete game I've seen. According to ESPN in 462 attempts he's been sacked 17 times this year, pretty good. Last year 30 in 428, freshman year 39 in 381. Sounds like a guy who's learning to unload the ball. he's completing 69.5% of his passes this year!

I do somewhat agree with Krang about some of the balls being picked off at the next level, then again that's true of all guys. A strong arm can cover a lot of mistakes ask Favre. last I heard Eric Zeier still held the NCAA career record for fewest INT's per 100 passes, and he threw 9 picks in 161 attempts as a rookie, it's a large jump to the NFL.

I was really impressed though I went in expecting to see an overrated guy but I didn't.

 

[ajcardfan]

The guy flying under the radar right now is JP Losman. This guy is every bit as physically talented as Roethsliberger and can run better. Seriously, he is right there with the both of them in my mind.

Watch him in the All Star games.