Originally posted by Stout
On your first point about lesser competition, it's fair enough, but how exactly do you propose to 'prove it away'? What would convince you? I mean, you do really make it sound as if you wouldn't draft him high, period, without discussion. If so, I'll step back and respect your opinion. If that's not true, what exactly would it take for him to 'prove the competition away'?
And I didn't say NFL teams that take competition into consideration are full of it. Never did I say that. I'm saying a guy shouldn't necessarily be written off because of competition. Big difference.
Allstar competition is one route. I know that some think that allstar games don't mean squat, but it gives teams a chance to look at players in practice.
The combine and personal workouts will be important as well. If he works out well, I would seriously consider him. I'm just not going to consider the guy after watching one game that's all. Hopefully Graves and Co. have watched a lot of film and are in a better spot to make the judgements. I don't like to tout players that I haven't watched, but admittedly I have to sometimes.
His competition is an issue, but it isn't necessarily the biggest one. I personally would worry about foot speed until Ben proves that he is fast enough. I thought Leftwich's foot speed wouldn't be a problem, and so far so good.
Originally posted by Stout
And again, I don't currently think he's a savior. As I said, I haven't even seen him play. I'm just trying to remain neutral and NOT rule him out as a high pick so early. I'm surely NOT ready to say I'd pick him early, although I think, based on info to be received later, it should be CONSIDERED, if Manning is off the board.
Overall, your points are fair enough. It does seem as if you won't be convinced to take him high at all. And, even if his measurables come out good, it would still be a risk. He could be a Pennington, or he might not be. We shall see. Let's just say we disagree at this point. Pax?
I didn't mean to imply that you think he is a savior.
I was referring to others on this board that watched the guy once against Bowling Green (not Michigan, OSU, Miami, LSU, etc.) and want us to draft the guy no matter what.
As I said, there will be plenty of QBs that will come along over the course of the next few years that will probably be better than Ben. Why set your (the general you, not the specific you) mind so early, that we have to get a QB? Vincent Young looks pretty good at Texas, and Brad Smith looks good at Mizzou, and a few other young QBs are also looking pretty good.
My position, is that Ben needs to prove to me why he should be drafted by working out well and playing in allstar games, so that the scouts can tell us what they think. I'm not saying that scouts necessarily make my mind, but they further cement my thoughts (i.e. If a player looks great, and the scouts agree, I tend to believe my eyes).
