Ryan Williams cut!

[GimmedaBall]

Garthshort has a thread going asking the question "When will HB be back?" It will be interesting to see how his rehab and the coaching staff expectations compare to RW. Is HB expected back sometime this season or will the coaching staff want him on the field sooner rather than later. What happens if HB has 'soreness' and can't go? Will we question his heart, desire, and attitude?

 

[GuernseyCard]

Nice article.

Cannot understand why we would have cut a guy with an attitude like that.

Lil' Bustness

When it's the CAP guru who tells you the gig is done, you know there are problems with higher up.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Garthshort has a thread going asking the question "When will HB be back?" It will be interesting to see how his rehab and the coaching staff expectations compare to RW. Is HB expected back sometime this season or will the coaching staff want him on the field sooner rather than later. What happens if HB has 'soreness' and can't go? Will we question his heart, desire, and attitude?

Good question.

All worries that I have about the situation.

Williams was "rushed" back by Ken Whizenhunt whom was worrying about his job.

Last year with Arians, it was more of a murky situation, and to be fair to Arians he didn't push Williams to get onto the field, but he didn't wait for Williams to be ready, and hand him the starting job.

Yet, it is concerning Matheui, there is concern about rushing him back, especially with all the hoopla around his rehab.

Definitely in agree that it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

The only thing filthy about last season was him taking/wasting a roster spot for 16 weeks.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The only thing filthy about last season was him taking/wasting a roster spot for 16 weeks.

I think anyone who said that wasn't some kind of power-play between Keim and Arians has to rethink that theory at this point.

I do think it's kinda jacked that we kept him on the roster as long as we did after the season. if the kid's not in the cards (no pun intended) and it's been crystal clear he wasn't for a looooooong time, why not cut bait earlier to not only give him a better shot in FA, but to also open up cap space for yourself?

the whole Williams saga was weird.

 

[kerouac9]

I think anyone who said that wasn't some kind of power-play between Keim and Arians has to rethink that theory at this point.

I do think it's kinda jacked that we kept him on the roster as long as we did after the season. if the kid's not in the cards (no pun intended) and it's been crystal clear he wasn't for a looooooong time, why not cut bait earlier to not only give him a better shot in FA, but to also open up cap space for yourself?

the whole Williams saga was weird.

Hm...

 

[Darkside]

Don't know about the power play theory--I'm more inclined to believe Ellington took all his possible playing time. They wanted to see what kind of thumper Taylor was when Mendy went down and by the time Ellington missed time they may have just figured why risk further injury over a possible 12 measely carries in one game.

What single game would anyone have taken Ellington out to see RW play? Ellington was electric all year. Every snap he was in held the possibility of something awesome. People were already lamenting Ellington's lack of carries and Mendy wasn't coming out in short yardage so RW could try a few runs between the tackles.

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[Cbus cardsfan]

Don't know about the power play theory--I'm more inclined to believe Ellington took all his possible playing time. They wanted to see what kind of thumper Taylor was when Mendy went down and by the time Ellington missed time they may have just figured why risk further injury over a possible 12 measely carries in one game.

What single game would anyone have taken Ellington out to see RW play? Ellington was electric all year. Every snap he was in held the possibility of something awesome. People were already lamenting Ellington's lack of carries and Mendy wasn't coming out in short yardage so RW could try a few runs between the tackles.

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How about the game/time Ellington missed?

 

[Duckjake]

Garthshort has a thread going asking the question "When will HB be back?" It will be interesting to see how his rehab and the coaching staff expectations compare to RW. Is HB expected back sometime this season or will the coaching staff want him on the field sooner rather than later. What happens if HB has 'soreness' and can't go? Will we question his heart, desire, and attitude?

To me the huge difference is that HB has shown he can play in the NFL and that he has the desire and more than anything the attitude. He answered all the attitude questions by staying clean for the entire year. Ryan Williams did not show any NFL caliber RB skills to me and I never thought he was an NFL caliber RB to begin with. It was a stupid draft pick.

And I don't wish him success anywhere else in the NFL. Don't want the chance of it hurting our chances of the ultimate goal of Cardinal SB #2.

 

[Cheesebeef]

How about the game/time Ellington missed?

Or when he was banged up and his carries were limited?

 

[kerouac9]

Or when he was banged up and his carries were limited?

Or like just being a superior option to Powell?

 

[GimmedaBall]

To me the huge difference is that HB has shown he can play in the NFL and that he has the desire and more than anything the attitude. He answered all the attitude questions by staying clean for the entire year. Ryan Williams did not show any NFL caliber RB skills to me and I never thought he was an NFL caliber RB to begin with. It was a stupid draft pick.

And I don't wish him success anywhere else in the NFL. Don't want the chance of it hurting our chances of the ultimate goal of Cardinal SB #2.

Cards took a much bigger gamble to draft TM as compared to RW. TM showed his 'desire' and 'attitude' with repeated drug violations in college to the point that he was dropped from the team and then arrested after undergoing rehab. RW did not have that kind of 'desire' and 'attitude' problem coming into his draft.

Not sure what game film or college games you watched but RW showed more than enough to the people that counted that he had the instincts and burst to play at the NFL level. RW was not a 'stupid' draft pick. From everything I have seen in the media, RW strikes me as a hard-working young man trying to 'live the dream' of being a professional football player. And, to TM's credit, I would say the same for him. The difference so far between the two players is that RW blew out a knee early on whereas TM played while healthy before going down. RW showed his 'desire' and 'attitude' by getting back on the field after having his kneecap destroyed. I don't know if I would have that level of courage or desire.

Not sure what you gain by voicing your disdain and disgust for RW? Your comments say more about you than they do RW. What purpose does it serve you? Are you happy that a young man has been injured and may never realize his goal of a successful NFL career? I'm not talking pity for RW---he earned a chance to fulfill his dream which is more than can be said for most of us. I'm not talking responsibility---everyone who plays any sports is aware of the dangers of participation. RW played and provided entertainment to us football junkies and got injured. Now he may be out a job/career. Why jeer him as he leaves. I don't get it.

 

[Duckjake]

Cards took a much bigger gamble to draft TM as compared to RW. TM showed his 'desire' and 'attitude' with repeated drug violations in college to the point that he was dropped from the team and then arrested after undergoing rehab. RW did not have that kind of 'desire' and 'attitude' problem coming into his draft.

Not sure what game film or college games you watched but RW showed more than enough to the people that counted that he had the instincts and burst to play at the NFL level. RW was not a 'stupid' draft pick. From everything I have seen in the media, RW strikes me as a hard-working young man trying to 'live the dream' of being a professional football player. And, to TM's credit, I would say the same for him. The difference so far between the two players is that RW blew out a knee early on whereas TM played while healthy before going down. RW showed his 'desire' and 'attitude' by getting back on the field after having his kneecap destroyed. I don't know if I would have that level of courage or desire.

Not sure what you gain by voicing your disdain and disgust for RW? Your comments say more about you than they do RW. What purpose does it serve you? Are you happy that a young man has been injured and may never realize his goal of a successful NFL career? I'm not talking pity for RW---he earned a chance to fulfill his dream which is more than can be said for most of us. I'm not talking responsibility---everyone who plays any sports is aware of the dangers of participation. RW played and provided entertainment to us football junkies and got injured. Now he may be out a job/career. Why jeer him as he leaves. I don't get it.

The Christmas Turkey post of the month.

I have seen plenty of RW's film. He never impressed me. I don't know why you think that criticizing a players performance on the field is akin to attacking them personally but that is a ridiculous assumption. Which says a lot about you. As for not wishing him success in future NFL endeavors tough. I don't wish success on any player who could impact the Cards making the playoffs. I'm sure you would be just thrilled if RW went to another team and his play kept the Cardinals out of the playoffs.

 

[john h]

I feel sorry for him but we knew it was coming.
Another high draft pick wasted!

In what round did we draft him? Mabe he made some money up front?

 

[GimmedaBall]

The Christmas Turkey post of the month.

I have seen plenty of RW's film. He never impressed me. I don't know why you think that criticizing a players performance on the field is akin to attacking them personally but that is a ridiculous assumption. Which says a lot about you. As for not wishing him success in future NFL endeavors tough. I don't wish success on any player who could impact the Cards making the playoffs. I'm sure you would be just thrilled if RW went to another team and his play kept the Cardinals out of the playoffs.

Your previous post did not criticize his performance on the field. You criticized his desire and his attitude. Which game with the Cards were you able to judge his on-the-field desire and his attitude? His stats with the Cards are not very good---his injuries kept him from getting started and putting up numbers. But that evaluation is different from claiming he lacked desire and attitude.


There are plenty of pre-draft posts on Ryan Williams. Some voice concern over his injury history and the fact that his freshman year was great but his following season was hampered by a bad hamstring. NOT one pre-draft review challenged his desire or his attitude as a player. His character was never in dispute---several posts mention that he has cared for his mentally-challenged brother. So, where are you collecting the info to challenge his desire and his attitude?


Also, I never said anything about him going to another team and his play keeping the Cardinals out of the playoffs. Did you read that in the same place that you imagined RW's bad attitude and lack of desire? I hope he returns to health, plays well for years, and the Cards beat his new team every time they play one another.

 

[desertdawg]

Looks like Ryan Williams is a cowgirl now. This will conclude any reason I ever had to root for the guy, I just hate the Cowgirls.

 

[Hollywood]

I just cant shake the fact that SOMETHING kept him on the inactive list last season. By all accounts he was healthy. I know BA wanted Mendenhall because of his blocking skills but I get the feeling there was more to it than that.

My gut is telling me that Williams wasnt doing what they wanted/expected him to do. If it was Whiz I would just chalk it up to being in the infamous doghouse but I dont think BA works that way. I am guessing that Williams wasnt tough enough for the current coaching staff.

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[GoldGloveschmidt]

Fitz sent out a nice tweet congratulating him and singing his praises. I really think BA puts loyalty above performance. If you are his guy, you will play. If he doesn't like you, for whatever reason, you are gone. Honestly I see fitz's tweet as a slight jab at BASk. Could be reading too much into it.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Fitz is being nice and probably had too much time on his hands (and money too) at the moment and thought he would be an ambassador of luv and upbeat vibes for the favorite "everyone loves that guy who is always at the facility but never plays" guy. What did Ryan do for the Cardinals? Nothing... most successful backs now have a short shelf life in this sport and half of his was riding potential. I'm a Cardinal fan and Williams will not help the Cardinals unless he mans up and fumbles as a Cowboy when we play this season lol

 

[Cheesebeef]

is there really an 8 page thread on a guy who played three games for this team?

 

[Jetstream Green]

is there really an 8 page thread on a guy who played three games for this team?

Well yeah, the guy is an enigma like the Bermuda Triangle and though hardly anyone knows anything about it or can verify anything about it... tons of writing exist lol

 

[Chopper0080]

Hm. So is your operating theory that for other teams in the NFL, the head coach doesn't have a clear idea of what he wants and/or the GM is unwilling to give it to him?

I have a hard time believing that to be the case.

As for the rest, I guess you could say that the FB was a turnover issue, but the rest were guys who just didn't turn out from jump street. We'll find out pretty soon whether that's a scouting issue. Jamel Fleming being a blown pick was tough.

I think that many first time head coaches don't know exactly what they need to be successful or feel they can make it work with sub par players. Whis could never articulate what he wanted in a developmental QB or was willing to settle on what his front office gave him. I fully believe Whis didn't know what he wanted in young players, didn't trust them, and had too strong of a voice in the draft room. I also believe this is a problem across the board in front offices. Cleveland, Oakland, San Diego, Jets and Miami are all teams who have struggled with staff turnover and therefore player acquisitions. Whether it is a GM who wants to select more complete prospects or a head coach who can't focus on long term fits, there is more than bad scouting to blame in the lack of success of these franchises.

Most GMs don't draft John Brown in round 3 when there are other prospects with more pro bodies than Brown. Arians knew what he needed out of his slot WR, was able to explain it to Keim, and Keim found the appropriate time to make the selection. That doesn't happen in many franchises due to ego and/or lack of effective communication.

 

[kerouac9]

I think that many first time head coaches don't know exactly what they need to be successful or feel they can make it work with sub par players. Whis could never articulate what he wanted in a developmental QB or was willing to settle on what his front office gave him. I fully believe Whis didn't know what he wanted in young players, didn't trust them, and had too strong of a voice in the draft room. I also believe this is a problem across the board in front offices. Cleveland, Oakland, San Diego, Jets and Miami are all teams who have struggled with staff turnover and therefore player acquisitions. Whether it is a GM who wants to select more complete prospects or a head coach who can't focus on long term fits, there is more than bad scouting to blame in the lack of success of these franchises.

Most GMs don't draft John Brown in round 3 when there are other prospects with more pro bodies than Brown. Arians knew what he needed out of his slot WR, was able to explain it to Keim, and Keim found the appropriate time to make the selection. That doesn't happen in many franchises due to ego and/or lack of effective communication.

Don't you agree that it's a little early to declare the drafting of John Brown a success--is the process involved any more different than what lead to drafting Rob Housler with the 69th overall pick in the NFL draft? I think we should at least let Brown play a few downs of real football and separate himself from Steven Williams before we declare that everything went right there.

I agree that Whis's inability to acquire a quarterback was a real problem, but I don't know how you can say that he had too much of a voice in the draft room. It's rare that a head coach has the time or inclination to dig in an scout 4-7th round picks. They'll maybe get a dossier on the selected candidates toward the end of the process, but they don't really have the time or experience to move through the 2000+ prospects to get to the last 75-100 players on the draft board.

Do Ryan "He Never Fumbled in College" Williams, Andre Roberts, and Rob Housler really strike you as Ken Whisenhunt kind of prospects? Really? Meanwhile, Dan Williams, Patrick Peterson, Daryl Washington, and Michael Floyd are the picks that Whis likely had a ton of input on, because of the smaller pool of prospects to review and rank, and the relative value of those particular picks.

I think that Arians is probably better at articulating what he is looking for in a prospect than Whisenhunt could--in part, I think that's the difference between Whis's "engineering" approach and Arian's more sales-y personality. I think that Keim has become more accommodating of coach's evaluations of players, and the profile that the team is looking for.

This is largely speculative, because the top picks from this new organization haven't played yet, and there was little disagreement over Tyrann Mathieu's quality as a prospect discounting off-the-field questions. Until this staff starts hitting at least doubles with its top picks and settles on a rush linebacker and/or QB prospect that they can push their chips in on, I'm going to wait and see.

 

[Chopper0080]

Don't you agree that it's a little early to declare the drafting of John Brown a success--is the process involved any more different than what lead to drafting Rob Housler with the 69th overall pick in the NFL draft? I think we should at least let Brown play a few downs of real football and separate himself from Steven Williams before we declare that everything went right there.

I agree that Whis's inability to acquire a quarterback was a real problem, but I don't know how you can say that he had too much of a voice in the draft room. It's rare that a head coach has the time or inclination to dig in an scout 4-7th round picks. They'll maybe get a dossier on the selected candidates toward the end of the process, but they don't really have the time or experience to move through the 2000+ prospects to get to the last 75-100 players on the draft board.

Do Ryan "He Never Fumbled in College" Williams, Andre Roberts, and Rob Housler really strike you as Ken Whisenhunt kind of prospects? Really? Meanwhile, Dan Williams, Patrick Peterson, Daryl Washington, and Michael Floyd are the picks that Whis likely had a ton of input on, because of the smaller pool of prospects to review and rank, and the relative value of those particular picks.

I think that Arians is probably better at articulating what he is looking for in a prospect than Whisenhunt could--in part, I think that's the difference between Whis's "engineering" approach and Arian's more sales-y personality. I think that Keim has become more accommodating of coach's evaluations of players, and the profile that the team is looking for.

This is largely speculative, because the top picks from this new organization haven't played yet, and there was little disagreement over Tyrann Mathieu's quality as a prospect discounting off-the-field questions. Until this staff starts hitting at least doubles with its top picks and settles on a rush linebacker and/or QB prospect that they can push their chips in on, I'm going to wait and see.

-I agree Brown is a wait and see regarding his success as a pro player. My point was that Keim delivered Arians the type of player that Arians has shown he needs. If Brown fails, then it shows Keim failed in being able to find an appropriate player to fill the void Arians needed filled.

-It was my understanding that Whis received final say on player acquisitions when his contract was extended. That would mean he would have final say on draft picks and some of them have Whis all over them IMO. As it has been discussed, there isn't a huge discrepency when it comes to player grades. We are talking about a .1 or .3 here or there. Our drafts looked to me like a head coach prefering sexy over structure.

-So, yes, Ryan Williams, Andre Roberts and Rob Houlser do have Whis all over them IMO. Offensive skill position choices over larger needs along the offensive line scream a head coach is making the choice over the GM because the head coach is maintaining he can get around the offensive line issues. In fact, the overall amount of offensive skill players drafted at the top of drafts during Whis tenure really looks to me of a guy trying to find the the parts to make his offense work rather than a GM working with his coach to manage short term needs with long term gains.

-It is all very speculative, I agree with that. And, I agree that the front office has to be able to hit on a premium position before I will be willing to state that they have turned the corner.

I am having a difficult time putting this into words, but I will try. I look at our team and the person with the most success is Bruce Arians and his ability to put together a viable offense. From what I have seen in Indy, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Indy again and Arizona, there looks to be a scheme and philosophy that works. I trust that, and I trust it more than I trust Keim's previous draft history. Because of that, the more Keim gets Arians pieces to make his offense work in an offensive league, the more confident I am. A QB makes a big difference, but if Arians can make Palmer work, I think we have some wiggle room. The more efficient Keim is at this, the more resources he can use to add talent to the defense which will lead to long term success IMO.

Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[kerouac9]

-I agree Brown is a wait and see regarding his success as a pro player. My point was that Keim delivered Arians the type of player that Arians has shown he needs. If Brown fails, then it shows Keim failed in being able to find an appropriate player to fill the void Arians needed filled.

That's an interesting point. Why wouldn't it be that Arians failed to develop the prospect that Keim delivered? I'm not saying it's one way or the other, but it's impossible for us to know from the outside.

-It was my understanding that Whis received final say on player acquisitions when his contract was extended. That would mean he would have final say on draft picks and some of them have Whis all over them IMO. As it has been discussed, there isn't a huge discrepency when it comes to player grades. We are talking about a .1 or .3 here or there. Our drafts looked to me like a head coach prefering sexy over structure.

My understanding was that Whis had control over the Final 53 contractually, and as an organizational philosophy had a ton of input over the kinds of players that were brought in. It's really more a question of time management and the reality that Whis is only one human being who puts in really crazy hours from July through January, and likely doesn't have the ability to put in the same kind of work--otherwise, why have a scouting department at all?

-So, yes, Ryan Williams, Andre Roberts and Rob Houlser do have Whis all over them IMO. Offensive skill position choices over larger needs along the offensive line scream a head coach is making the choice over the GM because the head coach is maintaining he can get around the offensive line issues. In fact, the overall amount of offensive skill players drafted at the top of drafts during Whis tenure really looks to me of a guy trying to find the the parts to make his offense work rather than a GM working with his coach to manage short term needs with long term gains.

But the point wasn't skill position over OL, it was a particular prospect over all others. I wouldn't be surprised if the organization believed that Grimm and Whis would be able to develop less-talented picks and free agents into quality starters along the line.

But SOMEONE put the bug in Whis's ear that Ryan Williams never fumbled in college, and if Williams was a Whis-driven decision, the organization's choice to keep Ryan Williams for an additional year and then never play him is mystifying.

Along those same lines, I don't think that Whis was making Keim call Rob Housler a "superstar" two Februaries ago from San Diego.

Do you think that Whis was watching a ton of Citadel film (the area where Keim was a regional scout) and decided that Andre Roberts was a future star? Really?

-It is all very speculative, I agree with that. And, I agree that the front office has to be able to hit on a premium position before I will be willing to state that they have turned the corner.

I am having a difficult time putting this into words, but I will try. I look at our team and the person with the most success is Bruce Arians and his ability to put together a viable offense. From what I have seen in Indy, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Indy again and Arizona, there looks to be a scheme and philosophy that works. I trust that, and I trust it more than I trust Keim's previous draft history. Because of that, the more Keim gets Arians pieces to make his offense work in an offensive league, the more confident I am. A QB makes a big difference, but if Arians can make Palmer work, I think we have some wiggle room. The more efficient Keim is at this, the more resources he can use to add talent to the defense which will lead to long term success IMO.

Hopefully that makes sense.

I see where you're coming from. It sounds like you believe in Arians, and hope/believe that Keim is giving Arians the benefit of the doubt when it comes to these prospects.

FWIW, and I don't want to re-litigate this, I think you're seeing the results of Arians being dragged along by some really good defenses to playoff success. I think that Arians has a Top 10 defense like one time in his career. He's not Mike McCarthy or Sean Peyton.