Saints apparently had bounties out on opposing players

[Darkside]

Like I said before, and I think alot of us said before, when we lost in 09, we lost to the SB champs, after beating a solid GB team who was probably better than the Saints at that time, and everyone acted all cool because we don't want to be sore losers. But the fact is they (the Saints) are ******* cheaters. KW can never say that now on NFL network, but that's what it was. He probably retired because of the beating they put on him, and now only to find out why...it's worse than spygate by far. By far.

 

[Darkside]

THAT HIT STILL MAKES ME SO FRAKING ANGRY! HOW IN THE WORLD IS THAT NOT AN EJECTABLE HIT! I DONT CARE WHAT WARNER SAYS, IT WAS NOT A LEGAL HIT AND IM SURE IT CONVINCED HIM TO RETIRE.

Maybe not that one single hit, the accumulation of hits that game, for sure. He was getting hit all in the head, and then hit on his INT (Why he was trying to pretend to tackle the guy, I don't know) but he got layed out. He was destroyed all game, and most of us didn't like it but we tried to be cool about it. Now, not so much. Honestly, I thought fans were whining at the time, being all bitchy, but obviously they saw the consistency of abuse.

 

[Darkside]

In any case, I get away from the point, which is that Greg Williams is a total scumbag, who can't scheme sh*t and has to pay guys to hurt HOF players to get ahead. He's a POS, I think we can all agree on that.

 

[AzStevenCal]

In any case, I get away from the point, which is that Greg Williams is a total scumbag, who can't scheme sh*t and has to pay guys to hurt HOF players to get ahead. He's a POS, I think we can all agree on that.

I've heard about "bounties" for many years now. I'd be willing to bet that Buddy was doing it along with just about every other team at one time or another. It's a little different now as evidenced by the league telling them to stop this practice but as much as William's actions bother me I'm still more pissed at the refs who failed to make them pay the price. An obvious headhunting play should be followed by an immediate ejection. Every time.

Steve

 

[WarnerHOF]

I've heard about "bounties" for many years now. I'd be willing to bet that Buddy was doing it along with just about every other team at one time or another. It's a little different now as evidenced by the league telling them to stop this practice but as much as William's actions bother me I'm still more pissed at the refs who failed to make them pay the price. An obvious headhunting play should be followed by an immediate ejection. Every time.

Steve

Oh yes, that NFC championship game was one of the most absurdly reffed games of all time IMO.

Maybe the refs were also in on the bounty?

 

[Darkside]

I've heard about "bounties" for many years now. I'd be willing to bet that Buddy was doing it along with just about every other team at one time or another. It's a little different now as evidenced by the league telling them to stop this practice but as much as William's actions bother me I'm still more pissed at the refs who failed to make them pay the price. An obvious headhunting play should be followed by an immediate ejection. Every time.

Steve

I think so-called bounties have always gone on, to some extent. But Buddy-Ryan's so-called bounties were only outed against the kicker Zendejas, which kind of makes for funny headlines.

I'm not saying players weren't good back then (or earlier), but nowdays these guys are total badass and can seriously end a dude's career. Romeo Crennel had a great interview on Sirius the other day, discussing talent (unrelated to this incident). He said when he started in the league evaluating talent everyone was out of shape and kind of fat, basically, and they had a lot to work with and mold (and he's talking only 20 years ago or so). He said nowdays, everyone is totally ripped and buff, and it's hard to tell who has the talent and who doesn't because they're all so totally cut.

This is something that's been in the league for a long time, there's no denying that, but as I said before, when you put a bounty out, as the Saints did, to actually hurt dudes, that really isn't for your mean ****'s, because they're going to be mean anyway. It motivates your lesser dudes, who are also totally ripped and cut and who otherwise wouldn't make a name for themselves. Back in the day, the depth of totally ripped dudes only went one or two deep, nowdays your whole team is physically gifted. So when you tell those dudes to go hurt someone, it matters, whereas it may not have meant as much back in those days.

 

[Catfish]

This could be the defining moment for Roger Goodell to make his mark on the league in a manner not unlike Kennisaw 'Mountain' Landis did in baseball with the Black Sox scandal. I salute the league for keeping the wraps on this thing until it was completed. Usually an investigation of this magnitude has leaks all over the place. The fact that this one did not have that, is testament to the sincerity with which Goddell treats his work at cleaning up the injury problems with the league.

I have complete faith that he intends to get a feel for the passion with which the fans and players union hold this topic before he lays out his punishment. I am sure that his legal people are studying other like situations in business and sports that have occurred which were similar in nature to this one. I also have faith in him to be VERY pointed and decisive in his punitive actions, once he has arrived at a solution. Due to the fact that this problem occurred (despite the owner's admonition not to do it), I would think that a ban, (ala Pete Rose), might be in order. Landis did that with Shoeless Joe as well. There is precedent for this type of action. This looks to be really significant. It might even lead to some Saints players opting out in free agency.

 

[Duckjake]

I think so-called bounties have always gone on, to some extent. But Buddy-Ryan's so-called bounties were only outed against the kicker Zendejas, which kind of makes for funny headlines.

I'm not saying players weren't good back then (or earlier), but nowdays these guys are total badass and can seriously end a dude's career. Romeo Crennel had a great interview on Sirius the other day, discussing talent (unrelated to this incident). He said when he started in the league evaluating talent everyone was out of shape and kind of fat, basically, and they had a lot to work with and mold (and he's talking only 20 years ago or so). He said nowdays, everyone is totally ripped and buff, and it's hard to tell who has the talent and who doesn't because they're all so totally cut.

This is something that's been in the league for a long time, there's no denying that, but as I said before, when you put a bounty out, as the Saints did, to actually hurt dudes, that really isn't for your mean ****'s, because they're going to be mean anyway. It motivates your lesser dudes, who are also totally ripped and cut and who otherwise wouldn't make a name for themselves. Back in the day, the depth of totally ripped dudes only went one or two deep, nowdays your whole team is physically gifted. So when you tell those dudes to go hurt someone, it matters, whereas it may not have meant as much back in those days.

Good point. It's the reason a lot of veterans don't want to play in the last (or for long in any) pre season game where young guys are trying desperately to make a team.

But I'd still like to know why the threat of retaliation doesn't keep things like this under control. There is a reason blocking a defender below the waist while that defender is engaged with another blocker is a major penalty.

As for Warner and Farve? I'd say that Kurt was going to be 39 before the 2010 season started and Farve would have turned 42 during the 2010 season had more to do with their retirement than anything.

 

[sportznutt]

I think so-called bounties have always gone on, to some extent. But Buddy-Ryan's so-called bounties were only outed against the kicker Zendejas, which kind of makes for funny headlines.

I'm not saying players weren't good back then (or earlier), but nowdays these guys are total badass and can seriously end a dude's career. Romeo Crennel had a great interview on Sirius the other day, discussing talent (unrelated to this incident). He said when he started in the league evaluating talent everyone was out of shape and kind of fat, basically, and they had a lot to work with and mold (and he's talking only 20 years ago or so). He said nowdays, everyone is totally ripped and buff, and it's hard to tell who has the talent and who doesn't because they're all so totally cut.

This is something that's been in the league for a long time, there's no denying that, but as I said before, when you put a bounty out, as the Saints did, to actually hurt dudes, that really isn't for your mean ****'s, because they're going to be mean anyway. It motivates your lesser dudes, who are also totally ripped and cut and who otherwise wouldn't make a name for themselves. Back in the day, the depth of totally ripped dudes only went one or two deep, nowdays your whole team is physically gifted. So when you tell those dudes to go hurt someone, it matters, whereas it may not have meant as much back in those days.

There are probably so many under-handed things going on in all sports we know nothing about........possibly even with our beloved Cardinals.

 

[Buckybird]

........possibly even with our beloved Cardinals.

Believe me thats not the case...the Cards didn't know the meaning of "real defense" until this year except for a 3-4 seasons in their history & we haven't had the greatest list of intimidators on that side of the ball.

Outside of the Philly West years most of our defensive players would basically lay you down on the turf then help you back up.

 

[Homer Simpson]

What if Sean Payton's injury this season was in response to rumors of this kind of stuff going on? I know it seems far fetched, but if I were an opposing player and I heard about this, I'd be tempted to go straight for the source.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

What if Sean Payton's injury this season was in response to rumors of this kind of stuff going on? I know it seems far fetched, but if I were an opposing player and I heard about this, I'd be tempted to go straight for the source.

Not "seems".... is.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Not "seems".... is.

Not "is".....definitely, without a doubt, unquestionably is. (probably)

Steve

 

[Buckybird]

This could be the defining moment for Roger Goodell to make his mark on the league in a manner not unlike Kennisaw 'Mountain' Landis did in baseball with the Black Sox scandal. I salute the league for keeping the wraps on this thing until it was completed. Usually an investigation of this magnitude has leaks all over the place. The fact that this one did not have that, is testament to the sincerity with which Goddell treats his work at cleaning up the injury problems with the league.

I have complete faith that he intends to get a feel for the passion with which the fans and players union hold this topic before he lays out his punishment. I am sure that his legal people are studying other like situations in business and sports that have occurred which were similar in nature to this one. I also have faith in him to be VERY pointed and decisive in his punitive actions, once he has arrived at a solution. Due to the fact that this problem occurred (despite the owner's admonition not to do it), I would think that a ban, (ala Pete Rose), might be in order. Landis did that with Shoeless Joe as well. There is precedent for this type of action. This looks to be really significant. It might even lead to some Saints players opting out in free agency.

I agree Catfish, Goodell has to send a message here. With all the former players sueing the NFL for head injuries & so on.

Who knows, but IMO this is going to get only messier for those involved as the days roll on. I wouldn't be at all suprised if the IRS gets involved & then uh oh.

 

[Buckybird]

The plot thickens & IMO will only get worse. Maybe Payton needs more time off & $$$ taken from his checkbook that many first felt

http://mike-freeman.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6264363/35066335

 

[AZ Native]

THAT HIT STILL MAKES ME SO FRAKING ANGRY! HOW IN THE WORLD IS THAT NOT AN EJECTABLE HIT! I DONT CARE WHAT WARNER SAYS, IT WAS NOT A LEGAL HIT AND IM SURE IT CONVINCED HIM TO RETIRE.

Kurt is saying all the right things. He is not going to throw Brenda under the bus for wanting him to retire after that hit. Just go back and watch her reaction after the hit and you will see the answer. Kurt, being the man he is, once again did the right thing for his family, It's who he is.

 

[52brandon]

I'm curious how the NFL will handle this. Especially while the league is cracking down on head hits. IMO, they need to crack down on it harder than NCAA did on USC or Ohio State, but I sincerely doubt that will happen. It'll be $50-100K fines on players involved, $1M for Payton, and a 1-season suspension for the DC with another $1M fine for him

 

[Buckybird]

I'm curious how the NFL will handle this. Especially while the league is cracking down on head hits. IMO, they need to crack down on it harder than NCAA did on USC or Ohio State, but I sincerely doubt that will happen. It'll be $50-100K fines on players involved, $1M for Payton, and a 1-season suspension for the DC with another $1M fine for him

If the league really had balls & wanted to make a statement they would strip away the Taints franchise tag, that would allow Brees to become an URFA.

 

[52brandon]

If the league really had balls & wanted to make a statement they would strip away the Taints franchise tag, that would allow Brees to become an URFA.

oooohhhhh.... that would be devastating. About as devastating as losing Kurt to (forced) retirement after said bounty was carried out. Seems a fair place to start


I also wonder if any players/franchises could sue for loss of revenue or something like that. Just by looking at the Cards, Kurt lost out on $10M by having to retire a year early, the franchise lost out on plenty of seats left open at games when schmucks were throwing garbage over that season as well

 

[ajcardfan]

Kurt is saying all the right things. He is not going to throw Brenda under the bus for wanting him to retire after that hit. Just go back and watch her reaction after the hit and you will see the answer. Kurt, being the man he is, once again did the right thing for his family, It's who he is.

Kurt knew he was at the end of the road after his concussion in the Rams game that year. Remember how he came out during the season after he got back and said players were rushed back too fast? That was a guy saying something for the good of other players knowing he really didn't care what coaches thought anymore because he was almost done. Then, the way he waved goodbye to the crowd at UofP after beating the Packers....

maybe there was a 1% chance of him still playing before that hit against the Saints, but I doubt it was much more than that.



Bottom line, I now despise the Saints. Before, I felt they could understand the pain of long term losing. But now, they can rot in hell with the Cowboys.

 

[ajcardfan]

I'm curious how the NFL will handle this. Especially while the league is cracking down on head hits. IMO, they need to crack down on it harder than NCAA did on USC or Ohio State, but I sincerely doubt that will happen. It'll be $50-100K fines on players involved, $1M for Payton, and a 1-season suspension for the DC with another $1M fine for him

If they don't lose any draft picks, that won't be close to enough. It's quite probable they wouldn't have won the Super Bowl without this dirty play crap. Their ability to compete should be crippled just as they crippled the ability of other teams to compete.

Goodell needs to treat this as the football equivalent of the Black Sox scandal in baseball. Lots of parents are already getting wigged out over letting their boys go into football. If it's too dangerous, then the talent pool is going to start to dry up and cripple the game long term. He HAS to send a strong message. I mean, this is just two weeks after Troy Aikman saying he wouldn't let a son play football.

 

[52brandon]

If they don't lose any draft picks, that won't be close to enough. It's quite probable they wouldn't have won the Super Bowl without this dirty play crap. Their ability to compete should be crippled just as they crippled the ability of other teams to compete.

Goodell needs to treat this as the football equivalent of the Black Sox scandal in baseball. Lots of parents are already getting wigged out over letting their boys go into football. If it's too dangerous, then the talent pool is going to start to dry up and cripple the game long term. He HAS to send a strong message. I mean, this is just two weeks after Troy Aikman saying he wouldn't let a son play football.

that's a good point. They took bribes just like then. But they also didn't throw the game, the just played extra dirty to win it. I don't know how the sox were punished as a franchise, but all players that participated being banned is a possibility that I would say is EXTREMELY thin. I think the DC will get such a ban though

 

[gamebird98]

rotoworld

Id ban them from post season.

 

[CtCardinals78]

Id ban them from post season.

That's interesting. I thought about this on Friday as well. It would be awesome if the NFL issued sanctions on the Saints similiar to the NCAA. I'd love to see a two year playoff probation and them being stripped of their SB Title. It wouldn't happen in a million years, but would still be cool to see.

 

[gamebird98]

That's interesting. I thought about this on Friday as well. It would be awesome if the NFL issued sanctions on the Saints similiar to the NCAA. I'd love to see a two year playoff probation and them being stripped of their SB Title. It wouldn't happen in a million years, but would still be cool to see.

Yup, then watch the good players scramble to other teams because they are not post season elligable