Schefter: Cards to tag Dansby

[joeshmo]

Wrong, ILB's don't take on blockers. They (guards) double team DT's or NT's. This is a big reason the 3-4 D's are so tough against the run.

Well that makes 2 poeple now who knows the philosophy of the 3-4.

Just look at the 3-4 WILB in the league. None of them are thumpers. Not a one. Just look as far as Pitt former first rounder Timmons. Mitch thought he would be an awesome outside 3-4 OLB to, guess what the smartest D coaches in the league made him a ILB where he belongs. Timmons isnt a thumper. The same theory applies in this case as well.

People think he would be a good pass rusher in a 3-4 because he had 8 sacks in one season in a 4-3 bliting with 5 or more players rushing the passer and going up against TE's and RB's. Now they think that will translate to him being a good pass rusher with only 4 or more players rushing the passer and going up against OT's, TE's, and RB's. Thats a pretty big leap.

 

[WildBB]

People keep confusing SILB with WILB. They are completely different positions. Dansby has 4 guys in front of him to take on blockers. Both DE's, the NT, and the SILB. It is Hayes Job to hit the gap first if there is still a G not doubling up on the NT's or DE's which 9 times out of 10 is exactly the case. Dansby's biggest worry is the FB as a WILB. WILB is the most covered up and protected front 7 player on the field, and the biggest reason why the WILB is always going to be your #1 tackles guy at the end of the year.

Now compare that to OLB where the only person covering up Dansby is a DE, and now Dansby has to worry about not just the FB but the OT, Stunting OG, stunting OC, TE's, and RB's. Dansby will get destroyed in that situation.

Fair enough, I can accept that analysis.

But didn't the Steelers for example draft Timmons in the first round a couple yrs. back to play OLB in the 3/4? Isn't he smaller than Dansby? Now I realise Harrison and Woodley are starting. But what did Timmons bring to the table that they saw him stepping into their D?

 

[WildBB]

Disregard on Timmons, I read your following post.

 

[joeshmo]

Fair enough, I can accept that analysis.

But didn't the Steelers for example draft Timmons in the first round a couple yrs. back to play OLB in the 3/4? Isn't he smaller than Dansby? Now I realise Harrison and Woodley are starting. But what did Timmons bring to the table that they saw him stepping into their D?

They drafted him to play on the inside. His first year he didnt play much at all, except for a few passing downs for his coverage ability. This year he was brought in during their nickel D as a ILB, and played a lot. They drafted him because Foote and Farrior. One is getting older and the other they didnt see as a long term player, who will most likely be leaving this offseason.

Its why they always have LB's to step in and play even though some LB's leave Pitt for big deals.

They are trying to give HArrison a new deal. It will be interesting to see how much to do it for and could be the highest paid player they have ever paid before. Which would be sort of a different approach for them.

 

[red desert]

Folks, we just went to the SuperBowl, our FO can't be total idiots

Lighten up a little

So you don't think our front office (see Rod Graves) deserved any blame for the many years of ineptitude he has been in the FO, buy yet, now you think he deserves the credit for going to the Super Bowl?

I don't think so.

More that anyone, Warner's magical resurrection is what got us to the super bowl. That, and Wiz, Haley, Boldin and Fitz. And a heck of a lot of luck.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

So you don't think our front office (see Rod Graves) deserved any blame for the many years of ineptitude he has been in the FO, buy yet, now you think he deserves the credit for going to the Super Bowl?

I don't think so.

More that anyone, Warner's magical resurrection is what got us to the super bowl. That, and Wiz, Haley, Boldin and Fitz. And a heck of a lot of luck.

You're right... if it wasn't for Rod Graves the Cards would have won the Super Bowl...

 

[Mitch]

Yep he should get paid 9 mill to get destroyed by OT's on every play.

You couldn't be more mistaken this time, Joe. At SOLB, Dansby would be lined up on the outside shoulder of the TE. The T to his side is covered by the strong side DE. The NT is in the strong side A gap and the WDE is in the weakside B gap.

Thus Dansby would first have to take on the TE and if the TE blocks down, signaling the off-tackle play, Dansby's job would be to get into the backfield, take on the lead blocker, keeping his outside shoulder free and turn the play inside toward the inside pursuit. It's not hard to do for an athlete like Dansby. It's a simple read and a relatively simple responsibility.

Rushing the edge from the SOLB spot is one of Dansby's greatest strengths...and for a team whose leading sacker only got 5 the entire season, improving the team's pressure on the QB is the top priority heading into the season.

If Dansby signed with anyone else, he would play OLB, where he belongs. And his best chance to make the Pro Bowl would be from the outside where he can use his quickness and size to great advantage both rushing the passer and chasing down the run. He's the Leonard Davis of the defense...Davis was never going to make the Pro Bowl as a LT. The Cowboys were smart enough to recognize his strengths, they moved him to guard and he's been a Pro Bowler ever since.

 

[bg7brd]

I think Dansby is playing right where he belongs. If our line would have played throughout the season the way they played during the plalyoffs he would have made the pro bowl.

 

[joeshmo]

You couldn't be more mistaken this time, Joe. At SOLB, Dansby would be lined up on the outside shoulder of the TE. The T to his side is covered by the strong side DE. The NT is in the strong side A gap and the WDE is in the weakside B gap..

Yep thats why Harrison and Woodley were being blocked by the OT combo of Gandy and Brown the whole time. Or any other team they played.

Any team that faced Pitt never put a TE on any one of those guys.

It doesnt matter where the DE covers up unless the DE lines up on the OT's outside shoulder. They can line up on the OT or on his inside shoulder, in every smart pass block scheme the OT will always release him to an OG or switch to double up if the OLB backs off into coverage.

What you just described is the OL going through their run blocking progressions, different set of circumstances for pass block progressions.

As for Run plays if you dont think Dansby is stout enough to handle a FB in the middle only some of the time what makes you think he can handle a TE or FB on the outside every time.

Wiz is an OC coach yes but he knows a little something about the 3-4 D. Davis is a 3-4 coach. Both believe him to be a WILB. They are paying him over 17 mill in two years to be a WILB. You would think both of these guys after two seasons would be smart enough to put Dansby where he belongs.

There isnt a team in the league that would make Dansby a 3-4 olb, just like Pitt would never let Timmons start at OLB.

 

[WildBB]

Walters' argument though is that the best chance the Cardinals have to bring that added pressure on the QB comes from an existing vetreran on the team (Dansby). Okeafor and Berry were sporatic and are winding down their carreers. LaBoy and Haggins were injured way too much.

Danby is a viable option IF there is another vet who can take over the WILB spot, which would seem easier to fill that spot with an effective starter. Either way they go Dansby will be effective. but will thrive better where we need the biggest improvement, pressure from the outside from the front five. A rookie won't fill that void this year. Look at what Gholston did last yr.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

You couldn't be more mistaken this time, Joe. At SOLB, Dansby would be lined up on the outside shoulder of the TE. The T to his side is covered by the strong side DE. The NT is in the strong side A gap and the WDE is in the weakside B gap.

Thus Dansby would first have to take on the TE and if the TE blocks down, signaling the off-tackle play, Dansby's job would be to get into the backfield, take on the lead blocker, keeping his outside shoulder free and turn the play inside toward the inside pursuit. It's not hard to do for an athlete like Dansby. It's a simple read and a relatively simple responsibility.

Rushing the edge from the SOLB spot is one of Dansby's greatest strengths...and for a team whose leading sacker only got 5 the entire season, improving the team's pressure on the QB is the top priority heading into the season.

If Dansby signed with anyone else, he would play OLB, where he belongs. And his best chance to make the Pro Bowl would be from the outside where he can use his quickness and size to great advantage both rushing the passer and chasing down the run. He's the Leonard Davis of the defense...Davis was never going to make the Pro Bowl as a LT. The Cowboys were smart enough to recognize his strengths, they moved him to guard and he's been a Pro Bowler ever since.

Really!

When did Dansby ever line up as a SOLB in a 3-4?

(A role played by Pace before leaving, and Okeafor this past season)

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Walters' argument though is that the best chance the Cardinals have to bring that added pressure on the QB comes from an existing vetreran on the team (Dansby). Okeafor and Berry were sporatic and are winding down their carreers. LaBoy and Haggins were injured way too much.

Danby is a viable option IF there is another vet who can take over the WILB spot, which would seem easier to fill that spot with an effective starter. Either way they go Dansby will be effective. but will thrive better where we need the biggest improvement, pressure from the outside from the front five. A rookie won't fill that void this year. Look at what Gholston did last yr.

Gholston was a luxury pick by the Jets last year, and simply didn't get much playing time given the quality and experience of the guys ahead of him.

A Gholston type of player could conceivably start in Arizona.

 

[Skkorpion]

Gholston was a luxury pick by the Jets last year, and simply didn't get much playing time given the quality and experience of the guys ahead of him.

A Gholston type of player could conceivably start in Arizona.

Gholston is THE bust of last year. NFL.com has a long article on him being just a workout warrior who disgusted his Jets teammates for several reasons. Read it yourself. NFL GMs are calling him the recent Mike Mamula.

 

[WildBB]

Gholston was a luxury pick by the Jets last year, and simply didn't get much playing time given the quality and experience of the guys ahead of him.

A Gholston type of player could conceivably start in Arizona.

You'd have to be picking sooner than we are or be extremely lucky. First year impact players simply are not there where we sit.

 

[Mitch]

Yep thats why Harrison and Woodley were being blocked by the OT combo of Gandy and Brown the whole time. Or any other team they played.

Any team that faced Pitt never put a TE on any one of those guys.

It doesnt matter where the DE covers up unless the DE lines up on the OT's outside shoulder. They can line up on the OT or on his inside shoulder, in every smart pass block scheme the OT will always release him to an OG or switch to double up if the OLB backs off into coverage.

What you just described is the OL going through their run blocking progressions, different set of circumstances for pass block progressions.

As for Run plays if you dont think Dansby is stout enough to handle a FB in the middle only some of the time what makes you think he can handle a TE or FB on the outside every time.

Wiz is an OC coach yes but he knows a little something about the 3-4 D. Davis is a 3-4 coach. Both believe him to be a WILB. They are paying him over 17 mill in two years to be a WILB. You would think both of these guys after two seasons would be smart enough to put Dansby where he belongs.

There isnt a team in the league that would make Dansby a 3-4 olb, just like Pitt would never let Timmons start at OLB.

In the Super Bowl, they played Dansby at OLB at times with Beisel in his place. Davis, actually, might be more inclined to play Dansby on the otuside than Pendy was.

We'll see. I understand your points...and quite frankly there are holes in his game at both spots.

If the Cardinals are able to add a couple edge rushers, the point becomes moot and Dansby stays where he is.

 

[red desert]

You're right... if it wasn't for Rod Graves the Cards would have won the Super Bowl...

Damn straight!

I mean, why the heck wasn't he on the sideline yanking Rolle by the collar to get him out of Fitz's way. Bet you Jerry Jones would have been in position to the get that done.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

In the Super Bowl, they played Dansby at OLB at times with Beisel in his place. Davis, actually, might be more inclined to play Dansby on the otuside than Pendy was.

We'll see. I understand your points...and quite frankly there are holes in his game at both spots.

If the Cardinals are able to add a couple edge rushers, the point becomes moot and Dansby stays where he is.

WEAKSIDE OLB not strongside.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Gholston is THE bust of last year. NFL.com has a long article on him being just a workout warrior who disgusted his Jets teammates for several reasons. Read it yourself. NFL GMs are calling him the recent Mike Mamula.

they said the same about Mario Williams his first year and many other players. I read the article and ONE gm said that. What he forgot to mention was the position switch for Gholston and how he missed time because of finshing up college requirements. Gholston admitted that he was "drowning" when it came to learning the new defense. The locker room talk was that he lacked confidence.That's obvious if he had trouble picking up a new system. They expect a guy to get 10 sacks because he signed a big bonus. Most 1st year OL and DL struggle adjusting to the pros.

Another misconception is that Gholston was drafted that high because of the combine. FALSE. The combine just confirmed what they saw on the playing field. It's not like the guy was a 2nd round pick that moved into the top 10. He was always considered a top 10 pick based on his 20+ sacks and ability to get after the QB at Ohio State. If you want to compare some guys to Mamula then make it guys who were way down the list and moved up into round based solely on their combine workout like Kyle Boller and Vernon Davis.

 

[Duckjake]

In the Super Bowl, they played Dansby at OLB at times with Beisel in his place. Davis, actually, might be more inclined to play Dansby on the otuside than Pendy was.

We'll see. I understand your points...and quite frankly there are holes in his game at both spots.

If the Cardinals are able to add a couple edge rushers, the point becomes moot and Dansby stays where he is.

The Cards ran some of this 4-3 alignment during the Steelers first drive:

ASmith/Dockett/Watson/Robinson

Hayes/Beisel/Dansby