Scola trade to Pacers Imminent

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Kevin Love is a very good player, but he just shouldn't be the cornerstone of your franchise. If he is your 2nd or 3rd best player than I think you could have a pretty good team, but the T-Wolves really haven't had that many good pieces around him and thus his teams have been bad. If we pursue him with the idea that he would be our 2nd or 3rd best player than I don't have a problem with it. Though I doubt we would get him with that mindset anyways because someone will be willing to pay a lot to get him.

 

[sunsfan88]

Love can be the 2nd best player on a championship team. The guy's offensive skills and rebounding ability is off the chart.

You would need a good defensive C to compensate for his lack of D.

 

[JCSunsfan]

don't know about the Timberwolves, but totally agree. I honestly don't remember a Phoenix Suns player I disliked more while he was still with the team. That changed for about five minutes when he was the only one to go after Ryan Hollins when Hollins put Dragic in a headlock. They are just worse when he is on the court.

Joe

Robert Horry

 

[SirStefan32]

His defense is so bad you would have to find a DPOTY worthy center to compensate for him. Someone like Olajuwon, Mutombo, Duncan....

Kevin Love is not the player to try and acquire.

Oh stop being dramatic. While he is not a good defender by any stretch of the imagination, he is not nearly as terrible as you are making him out to be. He sure as hell isn't any worse than Stoudemire was back in his Phoenix days.

If Kevin Love is your best player, you will not win a championship, but if he is your third option (or even second), you are in good shape.

 

[Phrazbit]

Love is a bad defender, but Dirk slowly got better (but still bad) on D and became the best player on a title team, and that squad did not even have another all-star. And a good portion of solid defense is simply rebounding, and no one in the league is better than Love. He also had a horrid supporting cast every year of his career up until last season... and last year he could not stay healthy (neither could anyone else there). I mean seriously, look at the trash he had around him. He played in a starting lineup that consisted of Beasley, Wes Johnson, Ridnour and Darko... thats like a "whos who" of dog poop. To blame him for not taking THAT manure to the playoffs is laughable.

They finally Pek (in limited action until last year) and Rubio, but for all the hype Rubio has played like a drunken sailor.

My only worry with Love is injuries. Give him 3 or 4 solid starters around him and I think you've got a 50 win team.

All that said... I expect him to end up in LA.

 

[BC867]

Love is a bad defender, but Dirk slowly got better (but still bad) on D and became the best player on a title team, and that squad did not even have another all-star.

The Mavs won the title with the addition of Tyson Chandler and dropped out of sight last season without him. Dirk was the best player, but that only fills the stat sheets. Chandler was the difference maker for the Mavs (then Knicks) with his play at Center.

 

[Phrazbit]

The Mavs won the title with the addition of Tyson Chandler and dropped out of sight last season without him. Dirk was the best player, but that only fills the stat sheets. Chandler was the difference maker for the Mavs (then Knicks) with his play at Center.

Dirk missed half the season last year, and the Mavs nearly won it in '06 too before Chandler got there. The Mavs were a contender for the better part of a decade with the defensive challenged Dirk as their best player. And the Knicks have not done jack squat. Chandler is a good player but Dirk carried those Mavs, remove Dirk from the equation and forget winning a title, they would not even have been a playoff team.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The Mavs won the title with the addition of Tyson Chandler and dropped out of sight last season without him. Dirk was the best player, but that only fills the stat sheets. Chandler was the difference maker for the Mavs (then Knicks) with his play at Center.

Oh, I agree with this. I always wished we could have gotten Tyson to play alongside Amare in his prime. It would have been an excellent pairing.

It doesn't work so well now because Amare has diminished so much,

 

[sunsfan88]

The Mavs won the title with the addition of Tyson Chandler and dropped out of sight last season without him. Dirk was the best player, but that only fills the stat sheets. Chandler was the difference maker for the Mavs (then Knicks) with his play at Center.

This.

Without Chandler, the Mavs wouldn't even have made it to the Finals in 2011 much less win it all.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Dirk missed half the season last year, and the Mavs nearly won it in '06 too before Chandler got there. The Mavs were a contender for the better part of a decade with the defensive challenged Dirk as their best player. And the Knicks have not done jack squat. Chandler is a good player but Dirk carried those Mavs, remove Dirk from the equation and forget winning a title, they would not even have been a playoff team.

This. Chandler gets far too much credit for the Mavs success. He's a solid player but Dirk playing like the best player in the NBA had more to do with that championship. If Chandler was all he's being cracked up to be then how do you explain his his time with the talent laden Knicks or his time before the Mavs.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

This. Chandler gets far too much credit for the Mavs success. He's a solid player but Dirk playing like the best player in the NBA had more to do with that championship. If Chandler was all he's being cracked up to be then how do you explain his his time with the talent laden Knicks or his time before the Mavs.

Steve

Injuries.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Injuries.

Isn't he going in to his 13th season in the NBA?

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

Isn't he going in to his 13th season in the NBA?

Steve

Yea and he's never really been healthy since leaving Chicago in 05.

As a matter of fact, he's missed a significant amount of games in every season for the past 5 years except for the Mavs title run season.

 

[Phrazbit]

Yea and he's never really been healthy since leaving Chicago in 05.

As a matter of fact, he's missed a significant amount of games in every season for the past 5 years except for the Mavs title run season.

And none of that changes the fact that he was a role player on that Mavs team. Dirk carried them and without Dirk they were nothing. Do they win the title without Chandler? Probably not... Do they even make the playoffs without Dirk? No.

Chandler is good defensive center, no superstar. He is a great ADDITION to a contender but he does not make a contender. Chandler has been around for playoff runs in 2008, 2012 and 2013... but those teams did not win squat because they did not have a superstar like Dirk carry them to the finish.

 

[elindholm]

The Mavs won the title with the addition of Tyson Chandler and dropped out of sight last season without him. Dirk was the best player, but that only fills the stat sheets. Chandler was the difference maker for the Mavs (then Knicks) with his play at Center.

I always find this argument silly. It's like you have a handful of change that adds up to $1.02, and someone points to the prettiest dime, and says, "There, that's the difference -- without that dime, this doesn't even add up to a buck."

 

[Mainstreet]

I always find this argument silly. It's like you have a handful of change that adds up to $1.02, and someone points to the prettiest dime, and says, "There, that's the difference -- without that dime, this doesn't even add up to a buck."

But you still need the dime to make a buck.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I always find this argument silly. It's like you have a handful of change that adds up to $1.02, and someone points to the prettiest dime, and says, "There, that's the difference -- without that dime, this doesn't even add up to a buck."

Of course this true. But he was still an important last piece. That does not negate the other pieces.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Of course this true. But he was still an important last piece. That does not negate the other pieces.

Sure but BC867's point was that Chandler was "the difference maker". If you want to call him A difference maker fine but if anyone on that team qualifies as THE difference maker it was Dirk not Chandler.

Steve

 

[HooverDam]

Sure but BC867's point was that Chandler was "the difference maker". If you want to call him A difference maker fine but if anyone on that team qualifies as THE difference maker it was Dirk not Chandler.

Steve

BC867 will bend logic in any way he can to prove that only teams with a 'true center' who's a stud player can win. Don't worry about it.

 

[sunsfan88]

Fun fact: every team that has won a title in the last 25-30 years has had a stud PF or C.

 

[Phrazbit]

Fun fact: every team that has won a title in the last 25-30 years has had a stud PF or C.

Fun fact: You just claimed that Horace Grant or Bill Cartwright was a stud.

 

[Michael]

Fun fact: You just claimed that Horace Grant or Bill Cartwright was a stud.

Horace was a stud. Great rebounder and defender, excellent shot blocker and decent scorer (given he played with MJ/ Pip, Shaq/ Penny).

 

[Phrazbit]

Horace was a stud. Great rebounder and defender, excellent shot blocker and decent scorer (given he played with MJ/ Pip, Shaq/ Penny).

He was a solid player but lets not get carried away. He defined "role player" and the Bulls could have won those titles with just about any half decent power forward.

And Cartwright (who played the position key to the current debate) was a stiff.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Horace was a stud. Great rebounder and defender, excellent shot blocker and decent scorer (given he played with MJ/ Pip, Shaq/ Penny).

I wouldn't mind having a Horace Grant on our team but it's arguable whether he's a stud. He was a much better defender than Stoudemire, for example, but Amare kills him in scoring and they're pretty much a wash as shot blockers and rebounders. I only point that out because very few people would label Amare great in either of those areas.

I guess it all depends on how you define stud. Regardless, it's kind of a strange "fun fact" in that center and power forward comprise 40% of your lineup and you'd expect every good team to have at least 3 studs so I don't see the big deal. Not that you were arguing on that subject but it is how we got to this point.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

He was a solid player but lets not get carried away. He defined "role player" and the Bulls could have won those titles with just about any half decent power forward.

And Cartwright (who played the position key to the current debate) was a stiff.

I think "role player" and "stiff" sell each of them a little short. Grant was a very solid player, borderline all-star level for the Bulls (only made it once but he was in the conversation each year) and Cartwright was above average with the Knicks and still serviceable by the time he played for Chicago. If Bill had played his career for the Suns he'd be talked about as our best center ever. Okay, that has very little relevance but still...

Steve