Scola trade to Pacers Imminent

[slinslin]

Fun fact: every team that has won a title in the last 25-30 years has had a stud PF or C.

LOL!

Other than Tim Duncan, Shaquille O'Neal, Hakeem Olajuwon, Kareem (thanks to MJ), Gasol/Bynum who were those studs?

Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace were good players, Horace Grant was a role player, Chris Bosh is a role player for Miami. The badboy pistons were deep but they didn't have a star big man either.

You need a good team, anything else is silly. I might just as well say the last x championships were won by Kobe/Lebron/Jordan/Wade or the last x final MVPs were Kobe, Lebron, Billups, Parker, Ginobili, Jordan, Wade...

 

[sunsfan88]

Fun fact: You just claimed that Horace Grant or Bill Cartwright was a stud.

Ok then past 25 years with the exception of '91-'93 Bulls.

Or better yet, past 19 years

 

[sunsfan88]

LOL!

Other than Tim Duncan, Shaquille O'Neal, Hakeem Olajuwon, Kareem (thanks to MJ), Gasol/Bynum who were those studs?

Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace were good players, Horace Grant was a role player, Chris Bosh is a role player for Miami. The badboy pistons were deep but they didn't have a star big man either.

You need a good team, anything else is silly. I might just as well say the last x championships were won by Kobe/Lebron/Jordan/Wade or the last x final MVPs were Kobe, Lebron, Billups, Parker, Ginobili, Jordan, Wade...

So Ben Wallace, Dirk, Bosh and KG aren't studs to you?

Chris Bosh is part of the big 3 for Miami. And his career numbers and achievements define that he's a stud. He isn't asked to do so much because they have LeBron but that doesn't mean he can't put up huge numbers for the Heat and be a stud.

And LeBron has played the PF spot for Miami against SAS so even if you wanna make the case that Bosh isn't one, I can easily just put LeBron there instead.

Duncan, Shaq, Ben Wallace, Olajuwon, Gasol, Rodman, Dirk, Bosh, KG all are studs. Some more than others but still studs none the less.

And you are correct about needing a good team but history tells us that a good big man is almost a requirement to win a championship.

 

[Michael]

I wouldn't mind having a Horace Grant on our team but it's arguable whether he's a stud.

[...]

I guess it all depends on how you define stud.

Steve

He was an all star in 94 and made a few all defensive (second) teams. That's pretty much stud material in my book.

 

[sunsfan88]

Miles Plumlee ‏@milesplumlee13 27 Jul
Forever grateful to the @Pacers. They made a positive impact I'll never forget. Couldn't be more excited to make things happen in Phoenix!

Gerald Green ‏@GgreenJr25 27 Jul Lets go Phoenix!!!! Lets hear it!!

Gerald Green ‏@GgreenJr25 27 Jul Thanks to all the fans! Welcoming to the new squad!! Lets get this team going!

Keep an eye on Gerald Green in the dunk contest...maybe the first Phoenix Sun to do it since Amare did it a while ago?

Marco W ‏@MDub002 27 Jul @Suns @milesplumlee13 @GgreenJr25 @LScola4 At least we might have someone at the the all-star game. #dunkcontest

 

[JCSunsfan]

Wow. I could see that conversation coming. Just my 2 cents. Horace Grant only looked good because of the players around him. If he had played for an average team he would have been considered an average player. Same with couple others. Rodman needed stars around him for his contribution to matter etc.

So if that's how you define "stud" fine. Anyone want to revisit the def of "tank"?

 

[elindholm]

Yeah, if you look at Grant's numbers (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/horace_grant/), there's not really anything there that says "stud" to me. He averaged about 14/10 during his four-year peak ('91-'95), but a lot of guys are in that territory. And he had either Jordan/Pippen or O'Neal/Hardaway as teammates.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I can't seem to find a side of this disagreement that works for me. I thought calling him a stud was a bit of a stretch but calling him average is quite a put down IMO. I remember him as being one of the better players at his position. I've acknowledged before how little I know about Advanced Stats but checking through the Basketball-Reference site they show him as a similar player to Detlef Schrempf, Elvin Hayes, Rasheed Wallace, Buck Williams, Otis Thorpe, John Havlicek, Alex English, Bobby Jones, Dominique Wilkins and Chet Walker. That seems to be a reasonable group to put him in, all of whom were good to very good players.

Steve

 

[Mulli]

Seem to recall Danny Ainge thinking he needed to help double team Horace Grant instead of guarding Paxton in the 93 Finals....

 

[carey]

I just read the last 3 pages of this thread. You know you're overanalyzing things when you're saying not to try and acquire Kevin Love because he's a bad defender. He may be a bad post defender and man defender, but he's a phenomenal rebounder. He's also a fairly good scorer. It's just silly to think we wouldn't throw max money at him if he were willing to come here.

 

[Mulli]

I just read the last 3 pages of this thread. You know you're overanalyzing things when you're saying not to try and acquire Kevin Love because he's a bad defender. He may be a bad post defender and man defender, but he's a phenomenal rebounder. He's also a fairly good scorer. It's just silly to think we wouldn't throw max money at him if he were willing to come here.

Exactly, remember when people said Dirk didn't play enough defense to win?

And when the Spurs paired Tim Duncan with a D playing C?

 

[Joe Mama]

I'm just surprised at this point that we didn't draft Grant's twin brother.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I just read the last 3 pages of this thread. You know you're overanalyzing things when you're saying not to try and acquire Kevin Love because he's a bad defender. He may be a bad post defender and man defender, but he's a phenomenal rebounder. He's also a fairly good scorer. It's just silly to think we wouldn't throw max money at him if he were willing to come here.

I'd be concerned about his injury history but if the medical staff thought it was a good gamble I'd be fine with paying him max money.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

Max money for Kevin Love? Unfortunately, it would take that to get him here. Not because he is a super star max player but because we are the Suns. I guess I could rest my head on the fact that we would be getting someone who could rebound and have another skill besides score which is the usual Suns target.

 

[Chaplin]

Max money for Kevin Love? Unfortunately, it would take that to get him here. Not because he is a super star max player but because we are the Suns. I guess I could rest my head on the fact that we would be getting someone who could rebound and have another skill besides score which is the usual Suns target.

Has nothing to do with us "being the Suns." Big men are notoriously overpaid in this league and if the Suns don't offer the max, somebody else undoubtedly will.

People really tend to reach just to get a dig into the team. Why do fans do that? There are so many legitimate issues to complain about.

 

[sunsfan88]

Considering how the max contract is under the new CBA, almost every serious contending team's best and second best players will be on max deals.

OKC - Durant, Westbrook
MIA - LeBron, Wade AND Bosh
IND - Hibbert and now George
LAC - CP3 and Griffin
BKY - Deron and Lopez
HOU - Harden and Howard
LAL - Kobe and Gasol (back when they were contenders)
NYK - Anthony, Amare and Chandler

There the few teams who lucked out without having to do that like CHI, GSW, MEM, and SAS but for the most part, you will have to pay to at least your best and second best player max money on a contender.

And I think it's established by now that Kevin Love can be the 2nd best player on a contender.

 

[Superbone]

Has nothing to do with us "being the Suns." Big men are notoriously overpaid in this league and if the Suns don't offer the max, somebody else undoubtedly will.

People really tend to reach just to get a dig into the team. Why do fans do that? There are so many legitimate issues to complain about.

Yep, Love IS getting max money wherever he ends up.

 

[elindholm]

Honestly, some of you just say ridiculous things. Of course Love is a max player. He's averaged better than 22 and 14 over the last three seasons, and almost everyone would agree that he's top-20 in the league. Max money isn't reserved for those who can lay claim to the arbitrary "superstar" title. Of course we'd all rather have LeBron James, but that doesn't mean that Love isn't going to get a max offer from any team interested in him.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Honestly, some of you just say ridiculous things. Of course Love is a max player. He's averaged better than 22 and 14 over the last three seasons, and almost everyone would agree that he's top-20 in the league. Max money isn't reserved for those who can lay claim to the arbitrary "superstar" title. Of course we'd all rather have LeBron James, but that doesn't mean that Love isn't going to get a max offer from any team interested in him.

yup, whether we're the Suns or not, Love is going to get the Max. the question then would be should we pay him that if we really think he's going to be our bona-fide #2 in the long-run?

 

[Mulli]

Honestly, some of you just say ridiculous things. Of course Love is a max player. He's averaged better than 22 and 14 over the last three seasons, and almost everyone would agree that he's top-20 in the league. Max money isn't reserved for those who can lay claim to the arbitrary "superstar" title. Of course we'd all rather have LeBron James, but that doesn't mean that Love isn't going to get a max offer from any team interested in him.

Amen to that.

 

[slinslin]

And I think it's established by now that Kevin Love can be the 2nd best player on a contender.

by who? Your imagination?

 

[Chaplin]

by who? Your imagination?

Where is your proof that he absolutely cannot be? And don't come up with your famous empty statistics that prove that you like numbers rather than anything concrete when it comes to NBA skills.

 

[elindholm]

yup, whether we're the Suns or not, Love is going to get the Max. the question then would be should we pay him that if we really think he's going to be our bona-fide #2 in the long-run?

I think the real question, which is related, is whether there's any point at all in constructing a roster whose ceiling is 55 wins and an occasional foray into the conference finals. There's a lot of talk on this board about building toward a championship club, but that requires a huge amount of luck, not just a few extra late first-round picks.

Assuming the Suns don't happen to stumble upon the league's best player of the next dozen years, how much patience will anyone involved with the organization have? Realistically, how long can a team sit on its hands and "build for the future" before giving up and committing to a good-but-not-great roster, like the Clippers and Pacers have done, so that they can at least experience some playoff excitement?

I think a team that is still telling its fans, and itself, "future championship or bust" needs to pass on Love. But for one that has been living that fantasy under the pretense of "rebuilding" for the last six or eight years, going after Love for a change of pace could be pretty appealing.

 

[BC867]

BC867 will bend logic in any way he can to prove that only teams with a 'true center' who's a stud player can win. Don't worry about it.

Think back to Michael's dynasty. He always had two or three role playing Centers on the roster. One in at all times. 'True centers'!

They didn't have to be studs. Just legitimate Centers. You are half-right. It is logic. What part of it do you consider 'bent'?

 

[elindholm]

Think back to Michael's dynasty. He always had two or three role playing Centers on the roster. One in at all times. 'True centers'!

They didn't have to be studs. Just legitimate Centers. You are half-right. It is logic. What part of it do you consider 'bent'?

The Bulls' primary backup center in '92-'93 was Scott Williams, who was in no way a "true center."