Seahawks at Cardinals gameday thread 1-9-2022

[Chopper0080]

So you think penny was going to throw the ball? it's a run play they have already handed the ball off, he just guessed wrong which cost us a TD.

the reason the others have their back to the play is they are CB's, it's their job to cover the WR they don't have run responsibility at that point, Simmons does.

Simmons head turns and he starts to bail before the RB has the ball.

 

[DaHilg]

Now we are claiming that people aren't letting our franchise QB play the way he wants to? This is where we are at?

So Mahomes running his plays on year 3? Mahomes is still running Mahomes plays and that isn’t Andy Reid’s/Eric B’s plays?

That’s cute and quite comical if you believe that.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don’t even think Peyton Manning was calling his own plays regularly by year 3… where’s your point? What world are you living in?

One that has actual knowledge of how much the QB is responsible for the actual play being called on the field, at least for top 12 QBs. To act like Kyler does not have complete autonomy on offense is sticking your head in the sand. Yes, Kliff calls a play in normal situations, but Kyler has the entire weekly game plan to audible to (entire playbook as well but normally QBs stick to the weekly game plan). In no huddle / hurryup, Kyler makes all the checks and calls at the line with hand signals.

 

[Cheesebeef]

We need Conner healthy next week. How bad is he hurt?

Looked like ribs to me, especially the way he was walking, wincing and trying not to breathe.

Maybe they’ll shoot him up with horse tranquilizers but have you ever had cracked ribs? It’s painful to move , breathe and you better not sneeze, much less get crushed by a defensive linemen.

 

[Chopper0080]

So Mahomes running his plays on year 3? Mahomes is still running Mahomes plays and that isn’t Andy Reid’s/Eric B’s plays?

That’s cute and quite comical if you believe that.

Mahomes/Reid/EricB meet every week for a weekly game plan. That is essentially cutting down the playbook to highlight and take advantage of the matchups they like, all of them. Then they install that along with a normal check plan in case of adjustments. Once the game starts, there is an initial call sheet and after that, it is what Mahomes is feeling and what is working and what adjusts to what the opposing team is doing. Two minute for the Chiefs is almost entirely Mahomes preference.

 

[Russ Smith]

Simmons head turns and he starts to bail before the RB has the ball.

Becuase he was guessing. There's 3 guys on the field that don't know the ball has been handed off, the 2 CB's who are covering as they're supposed to, and Simmons who took off running after the TE without checking who had the ball.

There's only 3 LB's on the field on that play we have 4 down linemen, Simmons, Hicks and Golden at LB and then Murphy, Hamilton, Thompson and Baker. That's why Seattle ran the ball we had a light box, Baker was deep downfield and Thompson is 8 yards off the LOS when they hand the ball off. The only non CB on the field who didn't read that as a run play is Simmons.

Yes at times our defense is too complicated like having Chandler Jones try to cover a WR and some of that stuff Vance does. But Simmons is not just messing up those plays he's messing up the ones that aren't complicated at all.

I still think he will be a very good player someday but I don't buy that he's being held back by the system, I think he's one of those guys who's a better athlete than player right now and in year 2 that's becoming an issue.

 

[reebokalone2001]

Watch this play and watch where the ball is when Simmons turns and runs with the slot WR.

2021 Week 18 Seahawks at Cardinals Rashaad Penny Outruns Defenders On 62-Yard TD Highlight

At about the 20 second mark they give you a behind the play look you can see Penny already has the ball but Simmons doesn't know because he's not looking he's turning to run with the WR who if you pay attention doesn't even run a route he doesn't even cross the LOS until Penny is well through the hole that Simmons creates.

Great athlete but he just doesn't seem to have any feel at all. There's a play earlier where Kennard makes a great play to take down Penny, if he doesn't it might have been a TD and guess who blew that play too, Simmons he jumped outside giving Penny the cutback lane. Luckily Kennard saved him there or he would have given up 3 long TD's on blown plays

I was not in front of the screen so I can't recall the second play you mentioned, but I would make a humble argument on the first play about Simmons misreading the play. He turned and covered the TE immediately after the snap, while Kennard who lined up against that TE at the LOS went rushing the QB. To me, that seems like Simmons was doing his assignment by taking the spot where Kenard vacated. If he did not go cover the TE, he would be wide open on the sideline. Nobody can tell whether it was a pass or run play from the beginning with the formation. Seattle has 2 receivers and 1 TE lined up on the LOS. Russel could very well keep the ball and pull out a play-action play. Simmons was not the only one, Kennard thought it was a play-action pass play as well as he stopped rushing halfway and clogged the passing lane.

Hicks could also share part of the blame as he might slide the right side too much, which caused him to be blocked by the guard, and was not able to come back to the tackle Penny. There could have been a miscommunication between Simmons, Kennard, and Hicks. With all three of them going spread to different sides of the line, the middle to the left side was left wide open. I actually do not see how the cardinals could stop that play with how they lined up unless:
1. they recognized the run paly from the get-go (nobody on the team did), or
2. Hicks stayed put instead of sliding to the right side, but Penny might break on a run on the right side (all Cardinals players on the right side were blocked as well) or
3. have Baker closer to the LOS to clog the open lane on the left, but Wilson might do play action and go deep, who knows.

Would Simmons know better with more film study, maybe, but I would not blame Simmons on that play. Seahawks designed and executed a great play that countered our defense scheme perfectly and that's it.

 

[Russ Smith]

I was not in front of the screen so I can't recall the second play you mentioned, but I would make a humble argument on the first play about Simmons misreading the play. He turned and covered the TE immediately after the snap, while Kennard who lined up against that TE at the LOS went rushing the QB. To me, that seems like Simmons was doing his assignment by taking the spot where Kenard vacated. If he did not go cover the TE, he would be wide open on the sideline. Nobody can tell whether it was a pass or run play from the beginning with the formation. Seattle has 2 receivers and 1 TE lined up on the LOS. Russel could very well keep the ball and pull out a play-action play. Simmons was not the only one, Kennard thought it was a play-action pass play as well as he stopped rushing halfway and clogged the passing lane.

Hicks could also share part of the blame as he might slide the right side too much, which caused him to be blocked by the guard, and was not able to come back to the tackle Penny. There could have been a miscommunication between Simmons, Kennard, and Hicks. With all three of them going spread to different sides of the line, the middle to the left side was left wide open. I actually do not see how the cardinals could stop that play with how they lined up unless:
1. they recognized the run paly from the get-go (nobody on the team did), or
2. Hicks stayed put instead of sliding to the right side, but Penny might break on a run on the right side (all Cardinals players on the right side were blocked as well) or
3. have Baker closer to the LOS to clog the open lane on the left, but Wilson might do play action and go deep, who knows.

Would Simmons know better with more film study, maybe, but I would not blame Simmons on that play. Seahawks designed and executed a great play that countered our defense scheme perfectly and that's it.

Kennards job there IMO is to hold the edge, make the RB take it inside which he did. It would have been great if he made the tackle but he assumes he has a LB inside of him. And that couldhave been Hicks but again he thinks he has a LB inside of him too.

If you watch the play right after the ball is handed off there's only 3 guys on the field who don't know it's been handed off the 2 CB's on that side, and Simmons, and again the TE isn't even past the LOS and Baker is lined up to that side but deeper because he sees the 2 WR and 1 TE on the same side.

Simmons has to make a decision there is it a run or a pass, he guessed pass, it 's a run and it's a TD right through the hole he left.

 

[DaHilg]

Mahomes/Reid/EricB meet every week for a weekly game plan. That is essentially cutting down the playbook to highlight and take advantage of the matchups they like, all of them. Then they install that along with a normal check plan in case of adjustments. Once the game starts, there is an initial call sheet and after that, it is what Mahomes is feeling and what is working and what adjusts to what the opposing team is doing. Two minute for the Chiefs is almost entirely Mahomes preference.

So you honestly think Kliff extends the same invitation and strategy ? Um no.. you are proving my point here

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

What the hell is hicks doing there?

 

[dscher]

This. We have collapsed two years running down the stretch. That is not only coaching but the mental makeup of the team.

Yep...and who hires those guys? One thing is for sure...it will remain crickets from top management. Imo

 

[Buckybird]

What the hell is hicks doing there?

I’ve been noticing several times a game for weeks now that Hicks fills the hole (wrong hole) on where he thinks the run is going & ignores the cutback lane & gets pinned up by a blocker or even his own teammates on many of these long runs they are allowing.

It’s almost as if, wrong way Ronny McKinnon is playing the run at ILB in Arizona years later. Imo it’s time to give Zaven some more snaps inside to try & stop the gashing lames imo even as well as Hicks has played at times during the year.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I hate to say this, but a ton of respect for the 49ers, Jimmy G, and Shanahan. Overcame a broken thumb in throwing hand and 17 points half time deficit to win in overtime. When was the last time the Cardinals played tough? I don't know if it's the culture, the coach, the players, the organization management, toughness is not in our vein.

Yup. For two guys that took an absolute beating on this board earlier this season they only finished a game behind us and are barreling into the playoffs on a wave verses what we are entering as . . .

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

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I will wait then, it was a great date, don’t want to be all pissed off and moody now — funny how this team can change the whole states mood, all ichy and morbid.

I’m glad it was a great date! Focus on that!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

P

Partially? It’s the coaches job teach all the players to things like that! I would say a lot of Kylers short comings is lack of quality coaching. They at minimum should have a QB guru QB coach or something as Kliff surely not getting it done. And Vance has to go period that whole side of the ball is terrible this year and past years, not the right guy for this team.

I’m surprised a kid that’s played football his entire life and is in his third year of professional football still needs to be taught how to effectively run a hurry up offense. I mean, throwing one yard routes? Over and over again? Throwing three yard drag routes in the middle of the field? It’s not like this is a one time thing. This is THE thing.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don’t even think Peyton Manning was calling his own plays regularly by year 3… where’s your point? What world are you living in?

I think you may be misunderstanding choppers point. Chopper, correct me if I’m wrong, but you’re stating:

I. Kyler has the power to audible any play if he reads the defense and there’s a better play.
2. Once the okay is called kyler has the read of the field and decides where to go with the ball. So if he throws to a receiver short of the sticks, that’s his call.
3. Kyler runs the 2 minute drill as there’s no communication in 2 mins.

 

[reebokalone2001]

Kennards job there IMO is to hold the edge, make the RB take it inside which he did. It would have been great if he made the tackle but he assumes he has a LB inside of him. And that couldhave been Hicks but again he thinks he has a LB inside of him too.

If you watch the play right after the ball is handed off there's only 3 guys on the field who don't know it's been handed off the 2 CB's on that side, and Simmons, and again the TE isn't even past the LOS and Baker is lined up to that side but deeper because he sees the 2 WR and 1 TE on the same side.

Simmons has to make a decision there is it a run or a pass, he guessed pass, it 's a run and it's a TD right through the hole he left.

Maybe his assignment was to read the QB and react, maybe it was covering the TE, maybe it was to switch the LOS look with Kennard (since Kennard lined up against the TE on the LOS), I don't know.

Let's say you are correct, Simmons' assignment was to make a decision between a run play and a pass play. In today's case, Simmons guess a pass, and Seattle executed a run. Another case could be he guessed a run and Wilson keeps the ball and pass to the wide-open TE. Regardless, he will have only a 50% chance to be right. And if what you said is true, I will seriously question the DC's system to put Simmons in a position where he has to guess a play.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Looked like ribs to me, especially the way he was walking, wincing and trying not to breathe.

Maybe they’ll shoot him up with horse tranquilizers but have you ever had cracked ribs? It’s painful to move , breathe and you better not sneeze, much less get crushed by a defensive linemen.

This was just the worst outcome.

Lose game to head into playoffs on downer.

Lose game to lose division.

Still get a key player injured.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Becuase he was guessing. There's 3 guys on the field that don't know the ball has been handed off, the 2 CB's who are covering as they're supposed to, and Simmons who took off running after the TE without checking who had the ball.

There's only 3 LB's on the field on that play we have 4 down linemen, Simmons, Hicks and Golden at LB and then Murphy, Hamilton, Thompson and Baker. That's why Seattle ran the ball we had a light box, Baker was deep downfield and Thompson is 8 yards off the LOS when they hand the ball off. The only non CB on the field who didn't read that as a run play is Simmons.

Yes at times our defense is too complicated like having Chandler Jones try to cover a WR and some of that stuff Vance does. But Simmons is not just messing up those plays he's messing up the ones that aren't complicated at all.

I still think he will be a very good player someday but I don't buy that he's being held back by the system, I think he's one of those guys who's a better athlete than player right now and in year 2 that's becoming an issue.

Russ, choppers right on this one. Simmons had to turn and cover inside out on the TE before the ball was ever handed off. That’s not guessing, that’s assignment. If he waited to see if it’s handed off and it’s a pass that TE is WIDE OPEN. There’s no chance for Simmons to get to him without dropping into coverage immediately.

 

[gmabel830]

Seeing Darius Philon dominating the Chargers interior line while our D-Line got taken behind the woodshed today is just awesome!!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Maybe his assignment was to read the QB and react, maybe it was covering the TE, maybe it was to switch the LOS look with Kennard (since Kennard lined up against the TE on the LOS), I don't know.

Let's say you are correct, Simmons' assignment was to make a decision between a run play and a pass play. In today's case, Simmons guess a pass, and Seattle executed a run. Another case could be he guessed a run and Wilson keeps the ball and pass to the wide-open TE. Regardless, he will have only a 50% chance to be right. And if what you said is true, I will seriously question the DC's system to put Simmons in a position where he has to guess a play.

Right. There’s no scheme that relies on guessing. Simmons is supposed to track the TE there. Someone else is counted on to fill that hole if it’s a run or draw.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Seeing Darius Philon dominating the Chargers interior line while our D-Line got taken behind the woodshed today is just awesome!!

I haven’t paid any attention his season. Has he played well all season?

 

[gmabel830]

I haven’t paid any attention his season. Has he played well all season?

Not sure, but he’s balling out in the biggest game of their season

Edit: His numbers aren’t much and PFF grade is mid 50s

 

[Russ Smith]

Maybe his assignment was to read the QB and react, maybe it was covering the TE, maybe it was to switch the LOS look with Kennard (since Kennard lined up against the TE on the LOS), I don't know.

Let's say you are correct, Simmons' assignment was to make a decision between a run play and a pass play. In today's case, Simmons guess a pass, and Seattle executed a run. Another case could be he guessed a run and Wilson keeps the ball and pass to the wide-open TE. Regardless, he will have only a 50% chance to be right. And if what you said is true, I will seriously question the DC's system to put Simmons in a position where he has to guess a play.

That's not what I mean I don't mean he has to guess I'm saying he did guess. He took off running before the ball was even handed off because he thought it was going to be a pass. note the TE was still behind the LOS it's not like he was taking off over the middle and again if he knows the defense, Budda is lined up on the left side over the top because they had 3 guys on that side.

Earlier in the game there's a play going the other way where Simmons guessed and ran upfield, Penny made the cut inside and luckily Kennard made a great play defeating the block and stopping Penny or that would have been a long TD run too. They specifically called that play out on replay because on that play Simmons was supposed to hold the edge but instead he ran upfield and gave Penny the cutback lane, luckily Kennard made the play there.

I can see teh argument that Kennard could have played it better and Hicks could have too but I think both of them were assuming Simmons was going to be where he lined up not running away from the play.

 

[reebokalone2001]

I haven’t paid any attention his season. Has he played well all season?

I can't tell for sure as I have not tracked him either, but he played well a few weeks ago vs the Broncos