Seahawks at Cardinals gameday thread 1-9-2022

[Russ Smith]

Russ, choppers right on this one. Simmons had to turn and cover inside out on the TE before the ball was ever handed off. That’s not guessing, that’s assignment. If he waited to see if it’s handed off and it’s a pass that TE is WIDE OPEN. There’s no chance for Simmons to get to him without dropping into coverage immediately.

He didn't drop into coverage he ran to the left across the LOS because the TE was still behind the LOS. If he had dropped into coverage he might have been able to get a tackle downfield.

Budda is over the top on that side so if the TE if he's open is behind the LOS with 3 DB's back there he's not running free wide open.

Teh whole problem IMO is he guessed, instead of looking to see who had the ball, he guessed it's a pass and took off running after the TE.

His assignment is if it's a pass cover the TE, if it's a run play the run. Because the TE didn't block he assumed it was a pass and took off.

 

[reebokalone2001]

That's not what I mean I don't mean he has to guess I'm saying he did guess. He took off running before the ball was even handed off because he thought it was going to be a pass. note the TE was still behind the LOS it's not like he was taking off over the middle and again if he knows the defense, Budda is lined up on the left side over the top because they had 3 guys on that side.

Earlier in the game there's a play going the other way where Simmons guessed and ran upfield, Penny made the cut inside and luckily Kennard made a great play defeating the block and stopping Penny or that would have been a long TD run too. They specifically called that play out on replay because on that play Simmons was supposed to hold the edge but instead he ran upfield and gave Penny the cutback lane, luckily Kennard made the play there.

I can see teh argument that Kennard could have played it better and Hicks could have too but I think both of them were assuming Simmons was going to be where he lined up not running away from the play.

Sorry, I misunderstood your post. Yes, if what you said is true that Simmons should read the QB and react instead of covering the TE running flat, Simmons clearly did not understand the defense. Then we got back to the original discussion, why doesn't he? Is the system to complex for him to understand, or his learning ability was not enough for him to understand? Either way, unless VJ dumbs his system down for his players, he is not using them right.

 

[Russ Smith]

Sorry, I misunderstood your post. Yes, if what you said is true that Simmons should read the QB and react instead of covering the TE running flat, Simmons clearly did not understand the defense. Then we got back to the original discussion, why doesn't he? Is the system to complex for him to understand, or his learning ability was not enough for him to understand? Either way, unless VJ dumbs his system down for his players, he is not using them right.

To be clear if it's a pass yes the TE is his but my take on it is the TE didn't block so Simmons just assumed its' a pass and took off to cover him. I don't think it's overly complex to expect a ILB to recognize if it's a pass or not. It was 2nd and 8 I think he guessed they're throwing and got burned.

I do see on replay where others have said Kennard should have played it better, he set the edge but he also left too big of a gap, but again I think that's because he wasn't counting on the guy lined up inside of him bailing like that.

It bothers me because it sealed the game and it's something this defense has done consistently the last 2 years under Vance, when we need a stop, they either give up a long drive for a TD or a 3 play drive for a TD.

 

[reebokalone2001]

To be clear if it's a pass yes the TE is his but my take on it is the TE didn't block so Simmons just assumed its' a pass and took off to cover him. I don't think it's overly complex to expect a ILB to recognize if it's a pass or not. It was 2nd and 8 I think he guessed they're throwing and got burned.

I do see on replay where others have said Kennard should have played it better, he set the edge but he also left too big of a gap, but again I think that's because he wasn't counting on the guy lined up inside of him bailing like that.

It bothers me because it sealed the game and it's something this defense has done consistently the last 2 years under Vance, when we need a stop, they either give up a long drive for a TD or a 3 play drive for a TD.

Maybe Simmons just does not have the ILB instinct and should be used more on a hybrid role, like the $LB where Deone Bucannon used to play, reducing his responsibility of reading the defense but increasing his role in coverage and open field tackle. However, that means Simmons was not a good fit for VJ's defense. So Keim either has to replace VJ with someone else to utilize Simmons' skillset or swallow a bitter pill to face the fact that Simmons was another draft failure of his.

Sign, I was a big fan of Simmons and was so excited that night Cardinals got him. I expected him to be our Luke Kuechly.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He didn't drop into coverage he ran to the left across the LOS because the TE was still behind the LOS. If he had dropped into coverage he might have been able to get a tackle downfield.

Budda is over the top on that side so if the TE if he's open is behind the LOS with 3 DB's back there he's not running free wide open.

Teh whole problem IMO is he guessed, instead of looking to see who had the ball, he guessed it's a pass and took off running after the TE.

His assignment is if it's a pass cover the TE, if it's a run play the run. Because the TE didn't block he assumed it was a pass and took off.

Everything you just typed is based on assumption that you know his assignment. Running left is dropping into coverage, but it’s dropping to man coverage in the TE. As a former ILB I strongly believe that’s his primary read given the alignment and the reactions of the cbs and his reaction.

 

[FB94]

Just like late last season. The Cards played soft and the Niners got tougher.

Even with Watt, this team is still not tough enough in the trenches. We still are a soft team, and both sides of the ball today got whooped pretty good. An infusion of some Eric Swann toughness is sorely needed

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Not sure, but he’s balling out in the biggest game of their season

Edit: His numbers aren’t much and PFF grade is mid 50s

Just got carted off the field.

 

[gmabel830]

Just got carted off the field.

Yeah, didn’t look good either

 

[Chopper0080]

I think you may be misunderstanding choppers point. Chopper, correct me if I’m wrong, but you’re stating:

I. Kyler has the power to audible any play if he reads the defense and there’s a better play.
2. Once the okay is called kyler has the read of the field and decides where to go with the ball. So if he throws to a receiver short of the sticks, that’s his call.
3. Kyler runs the 2 minute drill as there’s no communication in 2 mins.

That is being a quality NFL QB.

 

[Chopper0080]

Everything you just typed is based on assumption that you know his assignment. Running left is dropping into coverage, but it’s dropping to man coverage in the TE. As a former ILB I strongly believe that’s his primary read given the alignment and the reactions of the cbs and his reaction.

That is what I know and have coached as well. Like I said, the alignment could have been wrong. Personally this is an area where I argue that Vance puts players in positions to fail. Why have your ILB cover the TE in man from an inside position without a chip from the EDGE player. Especially when you know you are playing a run heavy team. Keep your LBs eyes towards the backfield instead of having to take your eyes away from action to get to your assignment. Seems overly complicated.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

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[THESMEL]

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Well poo it’s true, Detroit game was the real stinker, still haven’t watched this game, will say the NFCW is nasty place to nest right now, couple plays here and there and every team could have made the playoffs. We were predicted last, so all and all it’s been a good year, who knows which card team will show up next week?

cardiac cowboys nickname kind of irked me - get a grip dull az

 

[BritCard]

What do you mean no pressure?

If the Niners win and we win we win the division

There's no pressure when it's a long shot. When the game started we had a 25% chance of making it out of the 5th seed.

We just suck at home. Which is why I don't mind not winning in the slightest.

 

[Buckybird]

It ended the game that TD ended the game for us. Yes others made mistakes, yes the defense scored a TD and set up another. But we gave up 3 TD's today on just completely blown assignments 2 of them by Simmons. People keep saying this defense is too complicated, the blown pass play to the WR down the sideline that one you can say maybe it's too complicated Simmons thought the CB had that the CB thought Simmons had it, but the run play is completely on Simmons. He isn't even looking at Wilson when he hands the ball off.

Kennard did his job he held the edge and made Penny run inside, Hicks took the wrong hole but that's because when he starts into the middle he doesn't expect that Simmons is going to completely abandon his run assignment and cover a TE on a run play where the RB already has the ball.

Russ I think you’re way off base right here on that icing TD run blaming Simmons. Imo it’s clearly on Hicks just as you stated & I did in another post. Many times teams run the WRs on deep routes on run plays in m2m, we do it & every team does it. Isiah did what his assignment clearly was based off what the secondary did, play m2m.

Hicks killed us on that play no ifs, ands or buts about it.

 

[Dayman]

Our entire 2021 draft class combined for 1 tackle. 1 tackle!

The entire 2020 draft class had a bit more of an impact, with a combined 7 tackles (6 of which were made by Simmons) and some Eno Benjamin junk time stats.

This team was built to fade. Plugging holes with aging, injury-prone vets works for a little while, but with no young depth behind them, it's just a matter of time before it all falls apart.

In a division clinching game, we had some dude named Breon Borders out there playing heavy snaps against Lockette. Borders is on his 9th team in 5 years. The same thing happened to the secondary the last couple of years, too. Yet Keim waits until the 4th round last year to draft a CB who was injury-prone in college and had the highest passer rating against him in the league through week 12 in the pros. This isn't bad luck. It's bad roster management.

Until this front office gets an overhaul, I have no faith that this team will be built into a legitimate contender.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

We need Conner healthy next week. How bad is he hurt?

Good question

Hopefully he can play

We need his never quit attitude and fight to win this game

 

[BullheadCardFan]

There's no pressure when it's a long shot. When the game started we had a 25% chance of making it out of the 5th seed.

We just suck at home. Which is why I don't mind not winning in the slightest.

You don't mind not winning?

I mind every time we lose no matter what

 

[BritCard]

You don't mind not winning?

I mind every time we lose no matter what

Not this game no. We were always highly likely to finish with the 5th seed, especially when it became apparent Borders was going to play significant snaps.

I only wanted to get through this game without injury.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Not this game no. We were always highly likely to finish with the 5th seed, especially when it became apparent Borders was going to play significant snaps.

I only wanted to get through this game without injury.

Fair enough

But you and I see things from a different perspective

I never accept that my team will lose a game and be okay with it

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ I think you’re way off base right here on that icing TD run blaming Simmons. Imo it’s clearly on Hicks just as you stated & I did in another post. Many times teams run the WRs on deep routes on run plays in m2m, we do it & every team does it. Isiah did what his assignment clearly was based off what the secondary did, play m2m.

Hicks killed us on that play no ifs, ands or buts about it.

I get that and yes Hicks took the wrong hole but again Simmons was not covering a WR and it was not a deep route it was literally a route designed to pull him away from the hole that the RB was going to run to. It's a designed play to take away the extra run defender. IMO he saw the TE was running not blocking and decided it's a throw and he took off.

If you watch the replay and see where Budda came from the notion that there's no help there for Simmons is totally wrong, Budda is there you can't see him on the snap but you can see where he comes from he's on the left hash or past it and lined up over the top. Now yes if Simmons goes to the run and they pull it back and throw to the TE then you have a TE screen with 2 WR's in front to block and 2 CB's and Budda coming up to make the tackle, which happens over and over in an NFL game.

 

[Russ Smith]

Everything you just typed is based on assumption that you know his assignment. Running left is dropping into coverage, but it’s dropping to man coverage in the TE. As a former ILB I strongly believe that’s his primary read given the alignment and the reactions of the cbs and his reaction.

I get that but again, it's man to man with a safety over the top, Budda, people are acting like if Simmons delays to make sure it's not a run they're going to have a TE wide open for a TD, that's not the case at all in fact the TE is literally still behind the LOS like it was a TE screen.

The design of that play IMO is to get our extra run defender, Simmons, to vacate the hole and follow the TE and that's what he did. My take is Simmons saw the TE not blocking and assumed it's a pass I'm covering the TE which is exactly what Seattle wanted. Now we can argue Hicks took the wrong hole I assume he wsa following the blockers that all blocked that way, and we can argue that Kennard in setting the edge could have moved in a bit to cover up some of the hole that Simmons created, but they are all doing the same thing reading the play pass or run, 8 guys read run, 2 guys, the CB's, are in man to man outside coverage not involved in it if it's a run play, and the 1 guy lined up actually closer to the RT than the TE is Simmons and he read pass.

 

[TRW]

 

[Brian in Mesa]

We need one where a dead Cardinal is being beaten.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

A few silver linings to the dark, dark cloud that was yesterday's game.

1. Eno looks like he has a chance. I wouldn't be super worried if we had to start him for a game or two.
2. Murray's gone at least 120 passes without a pick. Not saying he played good enough yesterday, but at least he's not throwing the soul-crushing picks.
3. You can't stop Matt Prater, you can only hope to contain him.

 

[Chopper0080]

A few silver linings to the dark, dark cloud that was yesterday's game.

1. Eno looks like he has a chance. I wouldn't be super worried if we had to start him for a game or two.
2. Murray's gone at least 120 passes without a pick. Not saying he played good enough yesterday, but at least he's not throwing the soul-crushing picks.
3. You can't stop Matt Prater, you can only hope to contain him.

I think this is one reason he is taking sacks and holding onto the ball.