Shaq could be dealt to New Orleans

[Bufalay]

Keep Shaq's expiring ass! He is finally worth something to this team.

 

[AceP]

In all NOH games I watched, though less than a dozen this season, Chris Paul played GREAT defense both on-ball and off-ball. On the ball, VERY RARE could anyone blow by Paul. With lightening foot speed and ultra quick lateral movement, he stays in front of anyone with ease. Big opponents do shoot over him, but their shots are usually contested or rushed due to Paul's quick and active hands. Off the ball, he does gambles a lot trying to intercept passes, but his anticipation is so good that in a high rate he gets the steal. If not, he recovers his position very quickly.

When I talk about "best", I only mean among PGs. Rondo and Harris are both great defender, but not better than Paul. Payton in his prime? Hell yes, Payton was one of the best defensive GUARD in NBA history.

Unlike the Suns, NOH is a very good defensive team. they ranked 5th in points defence, and 8th in FG% defence, right there among the other league elites. Taking Shaq won't be that much of a problem for them, especially considering Chandler has only played 45 games this seaon and at his best, a 9+9 guy.

With 6M per and 3 years left, at the age of 32, Posey is for sure overpaid. In 2 years, he will definitely be a dead weight, a financial burden. Why not keep Barnes (much younger, won't cost more than MLE) and develop Dudley?

 

[Mainstreet]

It's hard to predict which direction the Suns move because all the trades seem to create a domino effect. I guess I would look at the market for Shaq and J-Rich first. If the Suns can get some value for these two players the Suns may decide to keep Amare. The Suns future plans for Amare seem vague especially because of a near max extension he will likely demand. I guess the Suns will trade Amare only if they get a fair offer in return. The Suns could wait until 2010 to make a decision on Amare which is a risky situation because they may not get anything in return.

 

[HooverDam]

Where is it that people think the Suns could trade J-Rich to exactly? If the Shaq to NO deal happens the Suns would obviously be trading offense for defense, it seems silly to me to then go and trade away more offense by jettisoning J-Rich. Especially w/ Nash's age and Amare's injury problems, you may end up needing J-Richs scoring. I wish he was a better perimeter defender of course, but other than that JRich does more or less exactly what the Suns need out of a 2 guard.

 

[Mainstreet]

Where is it that people think the Suns could trade J-Rich to exactly? If the Shaq to NO deal happens the Suns would obviously be trading offense for defense, it seems silly to me to then go and trade away more offense by jettisoning J-Rich. Especially w/ Nash's age and Amare's injury problems, you may end up needing J-Richs scoring. I wish he was a better perimeter defender of course, but other than that JRich does more or less exactly what the Suns need out of a 2 guard.

JRich did not help the Suns as much as I had hoped and the Suns are not presently in Championship mode. He has a huge contract, which if moved could give the Suns more financial flexibility. Moving Shaq and JRich would remove the financial shackles from the Suns and allow them to keep Stoudemire if desired. I'm not sure if the Suns could find a fair trade for JRich but I definitely would be looking. Finding another SG is easier than finding another big.

 

[HooverDam]

^Right, so where exactly do you want him sent? I just looked through every team on the ESPN Trade Machine and there are very few trades that make sense for both teams involving J-Rich.

You could move JRich straight up for AK47 if you're one of the folks with a hard on for defense, but AK47s contract is terrible.

 

[Mainstreet]

^Right, so where exactly do you want him sent? I just looked through every team on the ESPN Trade Machine and there are very few trades that make sense for both teams involving J-Rich.

You could move JRich straight up for AK47 if you're one of the folks with a hard on for defense, but AK47s contract is terrible.

I think JRich's contract may be a tough sell. I don't have any teams in mind, but that doesn't mean there might not be some takers. I would probably look towards contending teams first. I'm not high on AK47.

 

[HooverDam]

I think if the Suns do a trade like Shaq for Chandler+Peja, that means theyre putting the blowing it up/rebuilding on the back burner. Some of the other Shaq trades are obviously salary dumps, this one however theoretically makes the Suns a better team.

With that in mind, I think it then means moving JRich can go to the back burner. Not that I think a Chandler-Amare-Peja-JRich-Nash lineup can win a title next year, but its very likely a playoff team that can score a ton of points and be fun to watch. The perimeter defense would be horrific though, so maybe you do look to trade JRich for some defense? Or you could resign Barnes if the price is right and bring Peja off the bench.

Im not high on AK47 either (relative to his contract) but perhaps Utah would throw in their 2010 1st for JRich? Then you could have Chandler-Amare-AK47-Peja-Nash which might be slightly better on defense.

 

[elindholm]

O'Neal for Chandler and Stojakovic is a complete non-starter. Stojakovic makes $14.2 million next season and $15.3 million the year after that. There's just absolutely no point discussing any scenario in which the Suns take on his contract.

If it's O'Neal for Chandler, the filler player is Peterson. No one else makes any sense.

 

[slinslin]

Daniels makes no sense because of what?

 

[CaptainInsano]

Daniels makes no sense because of what?

It should make sense, and the only reason it does make sense in this scenario is because the hornets are desperate to get salary off the books, they didn't seem to give a crap about matching talent whatsoever in the previous chandler trade, so getting one huge one year expiring wallop of a 20 million salary that might actually not make them any worse because of how Shaqs inside game would work with David Wests jump shots doesn't seem to sound too bad to even hornets fans themselves let alone the teams management that is trying to slash salary at almost all costs.

I am really hoping this happends, please get it DONE.

 

[slinslin]

I think only Daniels makes sense because the Suns don't to pick up 2 longer contracts for Shaq.
If we already take Chandlers contract we need to get an expiring as filler.

 

[Chaplin]

I think only Daniels makes sense because the Suns don't to pick up 2 longer contracts for Shaq.
If we already take Chandlers contract we need to get an expiring as filler.

Slin, what makes you think the Hornets would say yes? You are speaking purely from a Suns-fan point of view and you're not thinking at all about the Hornets.

 

[slinslin]

Because the Hornets still get 12 Million or so off the books a year early which is the best they can do financially at this point unless a team under the cap would be willing to absorb Chandler's contract.

 

[cly2tw]

When Nash is traded, why should we so keen on trading Shaq too? Without opposing guards drives to basket with him out of position, he is all what we need in the paint. This team with everyone healthy would be a contender, if Billups were to replace Nash. Not?

 

[elindholm]

Daniels makes no sense because of what?

Because he's worth more to the Hornets than to the Suns. Since it seems to be a given that the Suns are keeping Nash and developing Dragic behind him, what do the Suns want with a 34-year-old third-string point guard? On the other hand, New Orleans, which hopes to be contending next season (else they have no reason to acquire O'Neal at all), still has some use for Daniels.

The differences between Peterson and Daniels are:

1. The Suns don't want Daniels and the Hornets do.
2. The Hornets don't want Peterson and the Suns might.
3. Peterson has one additional year on his contract -- which hardly matters, since the Suns aren't going to be big FA players anyway.

 

[elindholm]

This team with everyone healthy would be a contender, if Billups were to replace Nash. Not?

I doubt they'd be a contender, but they'd probably be improved. Since there's no way to trade Nash for Billups, however, I can't imagine why you would bother to make this point.

 

[Bufalay]

When Nash is traded, why should we so keen on trading Shaq too? Without opposing guards drives to basket with him out of position, he is all what we need in the paint. This team with everyone healthy would be a contender, if Billups were to replace Nash. Not?

Ok we get it, the only thing wrong with the Suns is: according to Cly2tw, Nash plays horrible defense and is a turnover machine and according to Nashman, Amare's ego is too big and his defense never gets any better. You guys can both stop posting now.

 

[cly2tw]

I doubt they'd be a contender, but they'd probably be improved. Since there's no way to trade Nash for Billups, however, I can't imagine why you would bother to make this point.

Building around Nash means that entertainment is the only goal the team persues. Billups replacing Nash, Amare healthy, I don't see which team would be a clear favorite against us. Do you?

Ok we get it, the only thing wrong with the Suns is: according to Cly2tw, Nash plays horrible defense and is a turnover machine and according to Nashman, Amare's ego is too big and his defense never gets any better. You guys can both stop posting now.

For the above reason, I don't see we are contending by building around Nash via moves like shipping Shaq for Chandler or Amare for Brand or a bunch of career role players from the Bulls. Do you?

 

[Bufalay]

Building around Nash means that entertainment is the only goal the team persues. Billups replacing Nash, Amare healthy, I don't see which team would be a clear favorite against us. Do you?



For the above reason, I don't see we are contending by building around Nash via moves like shipping Shaq for Chandler or Amare for Brand or a bunch of career role players from the Bulls. Do you?

I see no point in doing anything other than getting rid of Jrich this offseason, but his value is about where Diaw's was last year. The Billups point is ridiculous. The Suns would be awesome if they traded Shaq for Lebron and Nash for Wade.

 

[elindholm]

Billups replacing Nash, Amare healthy, I don't see which team would be a clear favorite against us. Do you?

This is so far into the realm of hypothetical as to be pointless to debate.

For the above reason, I don't see we are contending by building around Nash via moves like shipping Shaq for Chandler or Amare for Brand or a bunch of career role players from the Bulls. Do you?

No, of course not. This team isn't contending any time soon. There is no set of remotely plausible moves that will transform the Suns into a contender within five years. You don't turn a lottery team with no assets into a contender just by willing it to happen. Accept that and move on.

 

[cly2tw]

I see no point in doing anything other than getting rid of Jrich this offseason, but his value is about where Diaw's was last year. The Billups point is ridiculous. The Suns would be awesome if they traded Shaq for Lebron and Nash for Wade.

Common on, you don't really think Billups is as good as Wade or Lebron, do you? nashman claimed Nash was top 5 PG, so better than Billups. It's a fair comparison though Denver isn't gonna do it. In fact, to some extent, I believe Nash would be a better fit in Denver or Portland which have very good mobile bigmen to cover for his weakness.

Paul, Deron Williams, Parker, Harris, Nash as the top 5? That'd leave Rose, Billups, Rondo, Miller, Nelson, Davis, Calderon, who I think wouldn't make the Suns any worse replacing Nash.

 

[cly2tw]

This is so far into the realm of hypothetical as to be pointless to debate.



No, of course not. This team isn't contending any time soon. There is no set of remotely plausible moves that will transform the Suns into a contender within five years. You don't turn a lottery team with no assets into a contender just by willing it to happen. Accept that and move on.

Unless the lottery status was due to incomplementarity of the roster for any real success. With Nash holding his dominance on the team, there is no hope however you retool the other parts. Why do you want a sure thing like that?

 

[elindholm]

With Nash holding his dominance on the team, there is no hope however you retool the other parts. Why do you want a sure thing like that?

You stubbornly cling to three absurd fantasies:

1. That the defensive problems on the Suns begin and end with Nash; that his defense is so poor that it prevents anyone else from defending at all, even when he is on the bench; and that if only he were removed from the roster, the Suns could become a good defensive team.

2. That the Suns' offense is so potent as not to need Nash; that the roster is graced with at least one franchise player, or perhaps more, who is or are able and willing at a moment's notice to take over as the main offensive cog; and that it is only poor coaching and overemphasis on Nash that has prevented all of us from seeing this already.

3. That, in short, Nash is everything wrong with this franchise -- and yet, that the rest of the league is blind to this, meaning that the Suns would be able to get good value for a 35-year-old point guard with a chronic back problem in the last year of his contract, should only they put him on the trade market.

Needless to say, I disagree with all three of these positions, as would most of the world. Since everything you say rests on those three beliefs, it should not surprise you that you're having a hard time rallying a consensus around your crusade.

 

[Covert Rain]

When Nash is traded, why should we so keen on trading Shaq too? Without opposing guards drives to basket with him out of position, he is all what we need in the paint. This team with everyone healthy would be a contender, if Billups were to replace Nash. Not?

If everyone was healthy on this team we would not be a contender. Even if 100% this team could not sniff a title without better defenders. This team needs changes. I sort of agree with your point on Nash. There is less a need to trade Shaq if Nash is gone. However, that is also assuming you could get a good replacement for Nash at the guard spot. You still need a good PG to replace him.

If Billups was our PG this team would be better IMO. He would be an upgrade because Billups plays on both sides of the ball. Still not sure though we have enough defense to get it done. Amare would still dissappear, Shaq is going to be a year older, Grant a year older etc... It's not realistic (it would never happen) but Billups for Nash would be a great start.

However, we still need more defensive guys and a change in the system. This system is a huge culprit IMO with the teams problems. We have guys on this team that support that system. It's a chicken and egg thing. We need a new system. We need more defensive guys.

Trading Nash for a "Billups" type guy would be start but not enough IMO.