Should Ayton be Traded?

[Hoop Head]

Semantics—it’s not 2 for 1 because we’d have to waive someone like Ish to accommodate.

I said that....

So a trade that lowers our tax line by $6 million, which should lower the tax bill significantly as I mentioned above, could be done with Indiana involving Ayton for Myles Turner and Jalen Smith. Stix is needed to make the trade work but we'd get 2 for 1 while reducing the tax spending. Then I suppose we could move Stix elsewhere, waive Ish, or something. Just a hypothetical and showing deals are out that can reduce our salary and tax bill as I mentioned above, since I'm sure someone will ask for examples. I'd imagine Turner and Stix could provide 80% of what Ayton does without the baggage.

NBA Trade Machine - ESPN

NBA trade machine, make player trades

www.espn.com

There's no world where Ish is better than Stix. You're being needlessly pedantic.

 

[Covert Rain]

It's not just about improving the team. We're deep in the luxury tax and if we can move Ayton for someone who makes less then every dollar saved is actually 3 times as much considering the luxury tax. We're $21 million over the tax line, which means a $52m tax bill. If we can shred some salary, even $6 million more, the tax bill will shrink by more than half, down to roughly $27m. So if we can find a way to dump Ayton and save roughly $33 million between salary and luxury tax then I'd be very surprised if the team didn't do it. Especially if someone we get in return can provide roughly 80% of what Ayton does. There's a good number of Centers out there than can do that also, the question is then can the Suns make a trade work.

It is right now during this window. It's all about the title. That's why I am saying we get a legit big man in return. Getting someone worse than Ayton moves us further away from a title not closer to it unless it nets us two players that improve the overall roster. 80% of Ayton is still less than Ayton. Making any trade that downgrades our roster and moves us further from a title during this window makes ZERO sense.

 

[sdscard4]

Still hoping they trade his soft butt. Just watching him play this summer has been fools gold. I can still see the soft in everything he does. Bye bye

 

[Hoop Head]

It is right now during this window. It's all about the title. That's why I am saying we get a legit big man in return. Getting someone worse than Ayton moves us further away from a title not closer to it unless it nets us two players that improve the overall roster. 80% of Ayton is still less than Ayton. Making any trade that downgrades our roster and moves us further from a title during this window makes ZERO sense.

Trading Cam Payne for nothing proves financials are being considered. This team was better with Cam Payne than without it. We've been over this time and again. That move alone showed the owner isn't solely looking at winning a title regardless of cost. Ayton is 4th in line here at most on offense and we can get someone to provide what he does more consistently for less salary then it will be a net upgrade due to the consistency and salary savings. Plus adding in how Ayton hasn't been happy and wants to be a focal point despite now having 3 All-Star's ahead of him in the pecking order means he's a problem waiting to happen, who is also not dependable. So you can believe what you want but there's a reason the national media has started floating the notion the Suns will shed Ayton's contract. He doesn't fit in terms of role, skillset, mentally, or salary.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Trading Cam Payne for nothing proves financials are being considered. This team was better with Cam Payne than without it. We've been over this time and again. That move alone showed the owner isn't solely looking at winning a title regardless of cost. Ayton is 4th in line here at most on offense and we can get someone to provide what he does more consistently for less salary then it will be a net upgrade due to the consistency and salary savings. Plus adding in how Ayton hasn't been happy and wants to be a focal point despite now having 3 All-Star's ahead of him in the pecking order means he's a problem waiting to happen, who is also not dependable. So you can believe what you want but there's a reason the national media has started floating the notion the Suns will shed Ayton's contract. He doesn't fit in terms of role, skillset, mentally, or salary.

But that's the thing, I don't think it "proves" it at all. You can make a case we are better off with him but some of us see it the other way. We are better off with bubble Payne but he was all too often more like the Payne that was out of the league just a few years ago. Unless we can get bubble Payne, some of us believe we are better off not using a roster space on him.

Maybe you and others are right and we made that deal solely to save money but AFAIC the only thing we've proved here, on this subject, is that it is arguable both ways.

 

[Chaplin]

I said that....




There's no world where Ish is better than Stix. You're being needlessly pedantic.

Why don’t you have me on ignore? Let’s make a deal. I won’t reply to your posts from now on and you won’t reply to mine. Deal?

 

[Hoop Head]

Maybe you and others are right and we made that deal solely to save money but AFAIC the only thing we've proved here, on this subject, is that it is arguable both ways

I think that's the case. I definitely view us as better with him than without. I dont understand why some view it the opposite and tried hearing that side but it still doesn't click for me. Payne was a positive more often when it mattered than not. He did miss a lot of regular season games but he always seemed to step up in the playoffs, especially when Paul shrunk or disappeared.

 

[Hoop Head]

Why don’t you have me on ignore? Let’s make a deal. I won’t reply to your posts from now on and you won’t reply to mine. Deal?

You replied to me, pointing out something I said, I pointed that out. Now you're bent out of shape because your attempt at a gotcha didn't make sense? I don't hold grudges Chap. Like I've said before, I don't have a problem with you. Apparently you want me to ignore you so you can be critical of my posts without allowing me the ability to say your critique is misplaced? You are something else Chap.

 

[Germz249]

Just FYI.. had another meeting at the Waffle with Matt and the higher table. As of right now Ayton is part of the team's plan towards a championship and is here to stay although if the right deal and package comes then he could be moved. The front office would have to feel its a move that improves the team and not just a salary dump. The front office have been getting calls but don’t expect anything.

 

[Mainstreet]

Just FYI.. had another meeting at the Waffle with Matt and the higher table. As of right now Ayton is part of the team's plan towards a championship and is here to stay although if the right deal and package comes then he could be moved. The front office would have to feel its a move that improves the team and not just a salary dump. The front office have been getting calls but don’t expect anything.

This is what you have been saying all along, Germz. Right on target as usual.

 

[Covert Rain]

Trading Cam Payne for nothing proves financials are being considered. This team was better with Cam Payne than without it. We've been over this time and again. That move alone showed the owner isn't solely looking at winning a title regardless of cost. Ayton is 4th in line here at most on offense and we can get someone to provide what he does more consistently for less salary then it will be a net upgrade due to the consistency and salary savings. Plus adding in how Ayton hasn't been happy and wants to be a focal point despite now having 3 All-Star's ahead of him in the pecking order means he's a problem waiting to happen, who is also not dependable. So you can believe what you want but there's a reason the national media has started floating the notion the Suns will shed Ayton's contract. He doesn't fit in terms of role, skillset, mentally, or salary.

It does but not the way you think it does. First Cam Payne couldn't be depended on at all. The team basically was relegating him to spot minutes because we had so many ball handlers. You could easily find a guy for spot minutes and likely cheaper. You are correct.....WE HAVE BEEN OVER THIS. He became expendable the second we got Beal and Gordon. Also, "at all costs" doesn't mean spending money needlessly for a guy who was going to get spot minutes at best. Guys like him are rich because they are smart with their money. So you can believe what you want but Payne wasn't dependable, wasn't a factor for a title and likely out of the rotation. Keeping him doesn't seem like a smart move money wise or roster spot wise.

 

[Chaplin]

You replied to me, pointing out something I said, I pointed that out. Now you're bent out of shape because your attempt at a gotcha didn't make sense? I don't hold grudges Chap. Like I've said before, I don't have a problem with you. Apparently you want me to ignore you so you can be critical of my posts without allowing me the ability to say your critique is misplaced? You are something else Chap.

You’re right, I did respond to your post. Big mistake as I should have known where you’d take it. See ya.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Just FYI.. had another meeting at the Waffle with Matt and the higher table. As of right now Ayton is part of the team's plan towards a championship and is here to stay although if the right deal and package comes then he could be moved. The front office would have to feel its a move that improves the team and not just a salary dump. The front office have been getting calls but don’t expect anything.

Dumping Ayton and his salary would improve the team and allow us to find player(s) that would actually benefit the team during the last 5 minutes of crucial games

 

[Covert Rain]

Dumping Ayton and his salary would improve the team and allow us to find player(s) that would actually benefit the team during the last 5 minutes of crucial games

There is no dumping of Ayton and his salary though. In a trade you would end up bringing that money back. It would only improve the team if you could get your hands on a player or combo of players that would equal being better than a roster with Ayton on it. It might be doable but I would have to imagine the Suns have taken all those calls and didn't feel they were getting value. Most of the trade scenarios in the media would have been downgrades which makes us worse not better.

 

[taz02]

How much does a 25-year-old, 7ft starting center, who averages 18 and 10 cost?

Who is the trade target and what issues will the player traded for have and at what will he cost?

Does this mystery players team have the space to absorb part of DA's contract?

The Payne comparison doesn't fit. We have several players that can play his position at a much higher level. If we ship out DA, who will start at center?

We are all frustrated with DA's performance as the number 1 pick, but we are in win right now mode. If we find an available starting center who is equal to or better than DA, make the trade.

 

[Hoop Head]

There is no dumping of Ayton and his salary though. In a trade you would end up bringing that money back. It would only improve the team if you could get your hands on a player or combo of players that would equal being better than a roster with Ayton on it. It might be doable but I would have to imagine the Suns have taken all those calls and didn't feel they were getting value. Most of the trade scenarios in the media would have been downgrades which makes us worse not better.

Are you just a last word freak? We just went over that Ayton could be moved for a player or players that bring back less money which would save the team a hearty amount of cash. So your claim we need to bring back the same salary isn't true. The rest of your take is based on your views of Ayton while a good number of us don't view him as highly as you but we don't try and pass it off as factual, like you have done again and again. Repeat it all you want, it doesn't make it true.

 

[Hoop Head]

How much does a 25-year-old, 7ft starting center, who averages 18 and 10 cost?

Who is the trade target and what issues will the player traded for have and at what will he cost?

Does this mystery players team have the space to absorb part of DA's contract?

The Payne comparison doesn't fit. We have several players that can play his position at a much higher level. If we ship out DA, who will start at center?

We are all frustrated with DA's performance as the number 1 pick, but we are in win right now mode. If we find an available starting center who is equal to or better than DA, make the trade.

I already proposed a deal a page back, Myles Turner and Stix for Ayton. It would save the team at least $25 million in luxury tax this season and the savings beyond are huge as well. Turner and Stix would provide what Ayton does and more as they're better rim protectors while also being able to space the floor better. What Ayton averaged is irrelevant, he won't touch the ball as much next to Booker, KD, and Beal.

I'm not saying that's the deal we have to make, although I'd do it in an instant, but it's one of the first deals I thought of since the Suns have shown interest in Turner, the Pacers had Interest in Ayton, and the financials work also. We don't know what's out there and what isn't. That's for JJ to figure out. As fans we can hope he does or doesn't.

We are in win now mode and Ayton hasn't proven to be someone we can count on in the postseason. He wasn't 18 & 10 there, try 13 & 9 while also sitting out the final game. He disappears more than he balls out. Usually he's just going through the motions, which isn't going to cut it in the playoffs. It's unlikely to improve with him being #4 in the pecking order also. It's time we part ways before he pouts even more and becomes a distraction on a team that can't afford distractions as it tries to make the most of KD's final years where he's able to play at an elite level.

 

[Covert Rain]

Are you just a last word freak? We just went over that Ayton could be moved for a player or players that bring back less money which would save the team a hearty amount of cash. So your claim we need to bring back the same salary isn't true. The rest of your take is based on your views of Ayton while a good number of us don't view him as highly as you but we don't try and pass it off as factual, like you have done again and again. Repeat it all you want, it doesn't make it true.

Maybe you should just put me on ignore too. You have been testy arguing with multiple people on the board if they don't agree with you. Been a hypocrite and testy if people use "Oof" while you dish it out. Have no clue what your problem is but I frankly don't care. Also, you're a full of crap about my take on Ayton. I have been clear that I support moving Ayton if we can get equal value for him or make the team better. So, don't try and put words into my mouth about what I think of Ayton and try and pass that off as factual.

You also putting in mythical trades in a trade simulator doesn't mean the team won't have to take equal salary back in a real world trade. Those trade simulators will let you put any fantastical scenario in them within the rules. So technically could it happen? Your are correct it could but what they won't let you do is use your brain to reason why a team would take on Ayton's contract without shedding equal dollars in return. Nobody is going to take on Ayton's contract which you think is an overpay without shedding equal salary to make room for said contract with salary cap implications and the new apron rules. They also have to be willing to part with players you are proposing that happen to fit into your salary swap fantasy. Get real. I have seen 100 potential trade simulator scenarios since last season and less than 1% of them are feasible.

 

[Hoop Head]

Maybe you should just put me on ignore too. You have been testy arguing with multiple people on the board if they don't agree with you. Been a hypocrite and testy if people use "Oof" while you dish it out. Have no clue what your problem is but I frankly don't care. Also, you're a full of crap about my take on Ayton. I have been clear that I support moving Ayton if we can get equal value for him or make the team better. So, don't try and put words into my mouth about what I think of Ayton and try and pass that off as factual.

You also putting in mythical trades in a trade simulator doesn't mean the team won't have to take equal salary back in a real world trade. Those trade simulators will let you put any fantastical scenario in them within the rules. So technically could it happen? Your are correct it could but what they won't let you do is use your brain to reason why a team would take on Ayton's contract without shedding equal dollars in return. Nobody is going to take on Ayton's contract which you think is an overpay without shedding equal salary to make room for said contract with salary cap implications and the new apron rules. They also have to be willing to part with players you are proposing that happen to fit into your salary swap fantasy. Get real. I have seen 100 potential trade simulator scenarios since last season and less than 1% of them are feasible.

You continue to speak as if what you say is fact and literally create narratives about me making things up you say and then insinuating I have a personal problem of some sort for calling that out? Grow up. You refuse to allow anyone to have a differing opinion because you've proven time and again that you'll rehash and reframe the past ad nauseam.

Again, trade machines exist to see what can be done within league rules and what I proposed would shed $6 million a year from the Suns salary. As long that doesn't send a team into the apron, why wouldn't they do it? We see moves made regularly for financial reasons. Why would San Antonio take on $6m+ from us without anything in return? You said a team would never do something like that because apron rules. You also swear up and down we're in win now mode and will disregard all luxury tax implications when the team just made a salary dump proving that narrative as false. We are better with Payne than without, period. I'm not debating that again. There's literally no world where you remove one of the top backup PG's in the league from our roster and make it better. We have no true proven PG's, and as a Suns fan we've seen that movie too many times. I hope it doesn't look as dire as previously. However a salary dump proves your "win now, spend spend spend! Luxury tax be damned" narrative cannot co-exist. You can believe we're not better with Payne but you never frame it as a belief or feeling, you state is as fact based on ???? Who knows, talking the opposing side into submission? You've never proven it though but that doesn't stop you from claiming to be correct and the only way to perceive it. You're now doing the same with Ayton, saying we won't possibly trade him unless these ridiculous conditions are met when you have no clue. Again, you never said it's your opinion or anything like that. Just that is how the world works, when that is nonsense.

But of course, it's personal. Now "oof" me because apparently I hate it, I mean you have even resorted to telling me how I feel, not how you think I feel or think but exactly what reaction that is. Go ahead, I'll give you the floor for your last word also.

 

[Covert Rain]

You continue to speak as if what you say is fact and literally create narratives about me making things up you say and then insinuating I have a personal problem of some sort for calling that out? Grow up. You refuse to allow anyone to have a differing opinion because you've proven time and again that you'll rehash and reframe the past ad nauseam.

Again, trade machines exist to see what can be done within league rules and what I proposed would shed $6 million a year from the Suns salary. As long that doesn't send a team into the apron, why wouldn't they do it? We see moves made regularly for financial reasons. Why would San Antonio take on $6m+ from us without anything in return? You said a team would never do something like that because apron rules. You also swear up and down we're in win now mode and will disregard all luxury tax implications when the team just made a salary dump proving that narrative as false. We are better with Payne than without, period. I'm not debating that again. There's literally no world where you remove one of the top backup PG's in the league from our roster and make it better. We have no true proven PG's, and as a Suns fan we've seen that movie too many times. I hope it doesn't look as dire as previously. However a salary dump proves your "win now, spend spend spend! Luxury tax be damned" narrative cannot co-exist. You can believe we're not better with Payne but you never frame it as a belief or feeling, you state is as fact based on ???? Who knows, talking the opposing side into submission? You've never proven it though but that doesn't stop you from claiming to be correct and the only way to perceive it. You're now doing the same with Ayton, saying we won't possibly trade him unless these ridiculous conditions are met when you have no clue. Again, you never said it's your opinion or anything like that. Just that is how the world works, when that is nonsense.

But of course, it's personal. Now "oof" me because apparently I hate it, I mean you have even resorted to telling me how I feel, not how you think I feel or think but exactly what reaction that is. Go ahead, I'll give you the floor for your last word also.

I never said one thing about your opinion on Ayton yet you did the other way. It's like you live in opposite land. I don't tell you what your opinion is yet you seem to be OK with telling me what mine is. You literally above just said that I have a higher opinion of Ayton than most. It's right up there for everyone to see. That was you not me. You even went off a few days back when I wasn't disagreeing with you. Then you threw the fit about the USE (Oof) after using it on others. I should grow up? Hilarious. When I start seeing you call out others for the same behavior I will stop calling you out on being hypocritical.

Also, disagreeing with you on Payne or your crazy trade scenario doesn't equal I am right and you are wrong. It just means we don't agree. Evidently, nobody can disagree with you. If they do..they are saying it's a 100% fact. Dude...when I have a fact, I will back it up with an article or statistics. If not? It's all 100% opinion. That's litterally why this board exists and I didn't know that had to be spelled out for you. Is that clear enough for you? That way there is no future misinterpretation.

In terms of the idea that dumping salary doesn't mean that our owner is in win now all costs is nonsensical. Just because the owner is rich doesn't mean he should spend money unwisely. Maximizing his dollars and spending while spending wisely is why he is rich. Those things easily coexist with the idea of win now.

 

[Germz249]

People continue to text me about this.. Suns do not plan to sell low on Ayton. He is part of their future unless something comes along that they can not pass up..

Suns Predicted to ‘Sell Low’ on Deandre Ayton Trade

The Phoenix Suns discussed Deandre Ayton trades with the Dallas Mavericks and Indiana Pacers but wound up keeping the former No. 1 overall pick.

heavy.com

 

[leclerc]

You heard it here first. Word right out of Germz' mouth. Everybody just chill and let's find a different topic to discuss. Preseason can't be that far off now, can it?

 

[CardNots]

You heard it here first. Word right out of Germz' mouth. Everybody just chill and let's find a different topic to discuss. Preseason can't be that far off now, can it?

Less than 30 days. Enough time to move on from football…

 

[Mainstreet]

Deandre Ayton is hosting an NBA 2K24 championship qualifying tournament.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[BirdGangThing]

3 goals for the Phoenix Suns’ Deandre Ayton for the 2023-24 season

Center Deandre Ayton is the x-factor for the Suns as they enter the 2023-24 season, making his goals for the campaign massively important ones.

valleyofthesuns.com

Apparently these are the 3 obtainable goals Ayton should focus on

1) Don't care about how many touches he gets
2) Best defensive rating of his career
3) Become an NBA All Star

That's all! Easy peasy, right?