Should the Cardinals retire Larry Centers number??

[Scott MS]

No, there are a lot of guys who should come before Larry Centers.

Here's the current retired numbers:

8 Larry Wilson **
40 Pat Tillman
77 Stan Maudlin
88 J.V. Cain
99 Marshall Goldberg

** In the Pro Football Hall of Fame

Here's the guys from the Cardinals in the Hall of Fame, but not retired numbers:

Dan Dierdorf
Charley Trippi

 

[slanidrac16]

I believe Williams had more interceptions than any other CB during the 90's. Thats got to say something. He was the only star on a bunch of dismal teams. Why anybody would have even thought about throwing to his side is beyond me.

 

[Shuesters2]

Even though Larry brought it every game I'll remember him most for catching a lot of dump-off 3rd down passes that didn't pick up the 1st down. In the box score the numbers looked great but it wasn't winning football.

Aeneus W is a different matter. He was on of the best in the NFL. If there is a ring of honor he needs to be one of the first on it.

Shuesters

 

[BigDavis75]

If Deion Sanders makes the HOF (which I hope will not happen) the Aeneas definately deserves to be there. Aeneas was my favorite player as a kid, the first ever Cards game I watched he had two picks and we won. Without him we probably wouldn't have made the playoffs, the one bright spot in the Cards last 25 years.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If Deion Sanders makes the HOF (which I hope will not happen)

huh? Not sure I get this one. The guy was arguably the best cover corner of all time, a difference maker on Defense, a difference maker on Special Team AND a multiple Super Bowl Champion. Just because he was cocky you hope he doesn't make it - that's seems kinda weird to me.

 

[Assface]

huh? Not sure I get this one. The guy was arguably the best cover corner of all time, a difference maker on Defense, a difference maker on Special Team AND a multiple Super Bowl Champion. Just because he was cocky you hope he doesn't make it - that's seems kinda weird to me.

Yup, Deion is THE definition of shut down corner and their wasn't anything he couldn't do on a football field.

 

[Bobcat]

It's just a thought....He was one of the best Cardinals players of all-time

Hey Guy's Larry Cewnters was forced out of here, it was not by his doing. Jakes Contract just made it imposible to resign Larry. And don't blame Jake, Blame Cards Management for poor player and fan relations at that time. I feel that if Larry was here for the 1999 and 2000 seasons. Jake may have had a lot better seasons than he did have. Larry was always his outlet man. He saved Jakes butt alot in the 1998 playoff season.

All in all Larry was a very good, but not a great ball player. He was much better than what we hat left when he left here. Now it is up to DG to get us over the Hump.

Bobcat

 

[Renz]

Yup, Deion is THE definition of shut down corner and their wasn't anything he couldn't do on a football field.

Except tackle.

 

[BigDavis75]

IMO, Aeneas was a better all around defender than Deion. Plus Deion had a much much better supporting cast.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yup, Deion is THE definition of shut down corner and their wasn't anything he couldn't do on a football field.

well - he couldn't tackle anyone - but still - the guy was the best cover corner of all time. He could take away half of an entire field. I understand not liking the guy because you think he's a jerk - but there's lots of jerks in the HOF - it's the Hall of Nice Guys - it's about the athlete.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Plus Deion had a much much better supporting cast.

he sure as hell didn't on most of those awful Atlanta teams and it can be argued that his presence ther alone was one of THE main reasons that team ever had their brief run at 11-5 only to get blown out in the playoffs.

As far as later in his career - Deion went to a Niner team that had been beaten around by Dallas for two consecutive years, then was the final piece of the puzzle raising the level of their defense to dominating and kicked the crap out of Dallas. Then he went to a Dallas team which had been down and did the same for them.

I love Aeneas as much as the next guy, but as far as impact on a football team, I don't think i5t can seriously be argued that he was mor eimpactful on the game than Deion.

 

[Russ Smith]

It's just a thought....He was one of the best Cardinals players of all-time

no, he was a hard working guy and you love the effort, but all he basically did was catch a bunch of 7 yard passes on 3rd and 9 before we punted. his % converting them to 1st downs wasn't great, wasn't bad, but it was simply a case of a QB falling in love with one guy and going to him over and over when he had very little chance of getting the first down.

Boldin's rookie year was a phenomenal year, and he got first downs on 60% of his catches, working over the middle on a horrible team with everyone laying in wait for him over the middle to try and take his head off.

Centers on bad teams with defenses designed to let him catch the ball and then tackle him short, got first downs at about 45 %. again it's not a bad number, but it's not exceptional at all, he just got the ball thrown to him over and over. plus he had only one year where he had more than 3 TD's receiving.

Great role player but on a bad team, a 3rd down receiving back playing with QB's who kept throwing him the ball. If you notice, when Jake became the QB , Centers numbers went down, because Jake early in his career actually looked downfield. Later he got gunshy with all the picks, but early on he was aggressive downfield for us and that made Larry's numbers fall to more like what a 3rd down rb should catch.

Good teams don't usually win with 100 catches from a RB.

 

[Capital Card]

I don't think either Aeneas or Larry's numbers should be retired. Both should have their names added as part of a "Ring of Honor" for the new stadium.

Go Cards!!!

 

[kerouac9]

If Deion Sanders makes the HOF (which I hope will not happen)...

This is just insanity. If Deion Sanders doesn't deserve to be in the Hall, then no one does. Best Corner Ever Period.

 

[BigDavis75]

he sure as hell didn't on most of those awful Atlanta teams and it can be argued that his presence ther alone was one of THE main reasons that team ever had their brief run at 11-5 only to get blown out in the playoffs.

As far as later in his career - Deion went to a Niner team that had been beaten around by Dallas for two consecutive years, then was the final piece of the puzzle raising the level of their defense to dominating and kicked the crap out of Dallas. Then he went to a Dallas team which had been down and did the same for them.

I love Aeneas as much as the next guy, but as far as impact on a football team, I don't think i5t can seriously be argued that he was mor eimpactful on the game than Deion.

You cite his Super Bowl championships as a reason he should get the nod and Aeneas shouldn't, which was due to the rest of the great defenders and that great offense he had around him. Aeneas had no one else in his secondary, where Deion had D. Woodson at least. Also, you look at Arizona foootball history and we have one playoff victory in the last 25 years, could it have been done without Aeneas? I think not. Could Dallas have done what they did w/o Deion? Probably, with all that talent it was impossible for them not to win a couple of championships.

 

[azsouthendzone]

No to all of the above. Ring of Honors are cool. Keep retired numbers for the elite, like Pat Tillman. With one playoff win in 50 years, there aren't many players that deserve that honor.

 

[spanky1]

No to all of the above. Ring of Honors are cool. Keep retired numbers for the elite, like Pat Tillman. With one playoff win in 50 years, there aren't many players that deserve that honor.

Couldn't have said it better. Thank you. Players that get into the HOF have careers like Ron Woodson, not Aenas Williams.

 

[JeffGollin]

No. If you were to do that, what about #44 (John David Crow) or #32 (OJ Anderson) or countless other numbers?

It's tough enough giving the 80+ training camp guys unique jersey numbers. To reduce the number of jerseys even further by retiring a bunch of them would eventually create problems.

Instead, I'd rather see us implement something akin to the Felon Ring of Honor (featured on NFL Net yesterday - when they inducted Aikman, Irvin and Emmit). And - as they've done pretty well in Dallas - keep membership pretty exclusive (the overriding criteria - the dude should be an everlasting cornerstone of the Cardinal franchise).

I'd include guys like: Charley Trippi, Ollie Matson, Larry Wilson, John David Crow, Roy Green, Pat T., Jim Hart

But there will always be arguments over borderline guys like Anderson, Lomax, Larry Centers, Dobler, Dierdorf etc.

 

[phillycard]

Hey wait a minute here people...numbers are retired for only the "special few". Aeneas Williams was a very solid player who could play on any teams starting lineup.....but he sure as hell was not the kind of player that gets a number retired.

I mean, honestly, does he derserve to be talked about in the same sentence as the top 10 CB that have ever played the game.....not IMHO.

Retiring a number is for the Gretzky's and Jordan's of sports....people that have revolutionized their sport......and Williams isn't that kind of player.

I disagree spank. Teams retire numbers for reasons other than spectacular on field play. Hell, look at Pat! Aeneas was tremendous, and there are a ton of players in the HOF who may not jump to mind as the 10 greatest or whatever. That being said I don't think that LC should have his number retired. One of my all timers but no.

 

[Russ Smith]

Couldn't have said it better. Thank you. Players that get into the HOF have careers like Ron Woodson, not Aenas Williams.

Aeneas was a better CB than Rod Woodson ever was IMHO. People didn't throw at Aeneas for years here because the other CB was never any good, and yet he still hsa 55 career picks, 46 of which came as a Card.

Woodson was a great player himself and played a long time, but as a CB I'd take Aeneas in a hearbeat. What Woodson did was reinvent himself and become a great safety, Aeneas hasn't done that. I think something like 30+ of Woodson's 71 career picks came AFTER he became a safety, great player, definite HOF player, but largely because he was great on good teams.

Put Aeneas on a better team and there would be no debate, he'd be a HOF player.

 

[spanky1]

Aeneas was a better CB than Rod Woodson ever was IMHO. People didn't throw at Aeneas for years here because the other CB was never any good, and yet he still hsa 55 career picks, 46 of which came as a Card.

Woodson was a great player himself and played a long time, but as a CB I'd take Aeneas in a hearbeat. What Woodson did was reinvent himself and become a great safety, Aeneas hasn't done that. I think something like 30+ of Woodson's 71 career picks came AFTER he became a safety, great player, definite HOF player, but largely because he was great on good teams.

Put Aeneas on a better team and there would be no debate, he'd be a HOF player.

Russ,

re: Aenas on a better team= HOF. I would agree with you on this, but the hard reality is that this is why he won't make it.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ,

re: Aenas on a better team= HOF. I would agree with you on this, but the hard reality is that this is why he won't make it.

I agree he probably won't, I'm just saying he should. I think he was a better CB than Woodson was, he just played on inferior teams through no fault of his own.


I've often wondered if that had something to do with aeneas wanting to leave here, he thought a few years on a great Rams team would get him HOF votes?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Hey wait a minute here people...numbers are retired for only the "special few". Aeneas Williams was a very solid player who could play on any teams starting lineup.....but he sure as hell was not the kind of player that gets a number retired.

I mean, honestly, does he derserve to be talked about in the same sentence as the top 10 CB that have ever played the game.....not IMHO.

Retiring a number is for the Gretzky's and Jordan's of sports....people that have revolutionized their sport......and Williams isn't that kind of player.

wasn't aeneas named to the all-decade team? he was arguably the best cornerback not named deion in the 90s. he's retired as far as i'm concerned.

 

[BigDavis75]

Aeneas was a better CB than Rod Woodson ever was IMHO. People didn't throw at Aeneas for years here because the other CB was never any good, and yet he still hsa 55 career picks, 46 of which came as a Card.

Woodson was a great player himself and played a long time, but as a CB I'd take Aeneas in a hearbeat. What Woodson did was reinvent himself and become a great safety, Aeneas hasn't done that. I think something like 30+ of Woodson's 71 career picks came AFTER he became a safety, great player, definite HOF player, but largely because he was great on good teams.

Put Aeneas on a better team and there would be no debate, he'd be a HOF player.

Excellent point, Woodson was playing in front of Carnell Laker who was a top 2 or 3 safety of the decade, and when Woodson got hurt in one year (I forget which) Lake went to the Pro Bowl playing corner back, a feat which I doubt is often repeated.

 

[BigDavis75]

I also forgot to point out Aeneas' impact on the 2001 Rams team.