Should the Suns keep Ryan McDonough as GM

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm wondering who is in the driver's seat, Stef. Is it the Suns or is it Payton?

If Payton emerges as a solid starting Point Guard, is it the Suns, who could try to re-sign him for next season?

Or is it Payton, who will have used the Suns to prove himself and sign with a better run team next season?

We got him for next to nothing. I won't say, "You get what you get pay for." But I will say, "You get the situation you pay for." Cheap is as cheap does.

Who has more to lose from this bargain transaction? I think it's the Suns. If Payton fails, what did he lose? Not very much. He'll go back to what he was.

If Payton succeeds and leaves, the hapless, ignorant Front Office of the Suns will have to start again .. again. Even if they 'luck out' in the draft with a young Point Guard.

The only "hope" (there's a word I've used to describe the Suns "planning" in another post) is that his friendship with Warren will get him to re-up.

I expect that the desire to play with a well run and successful team will win out for Payton and the Suns will have found themselves in another no-win situation through very short sighted management.

He’s a restricted free agent. This is nothing but upside for suns. They gave away a 2nd round pick they got for free for a former number 10 overall pick whose numbers aren’t bad and he’s still young and because he’s a restricted free agent he’s under suns control. So if succeeds he’s stuck but likely gets a nice payday. If he stinks we are out a 3nd round pick we got for free. Your post has zero merit.

 

[SirStefan32]

I'm wondering who is in the driver's seat, Stef. Is it the Suns or is it Payton?

If Payton emerges as a solid starting Point Guard, is it the Suns, who could try to re-sign him for next season?

Or is it Payton, who will have used the Suns to prove himself and sign with a better run team next season?

We got him for next to nothing. I won't say, "You get what you get pay for." But I will say, "You get the situation you pay for." Cheap is as cheap does.

Who has more to lose from this bargain transaction? I think it's the Suns. If Payton fails, what did he lose? Not very much. He'll go back to what he was.

If Payton succeeds and leaves, the hapless, ignorant Front Office of the Suns will have to start again .. again. Even if they 'luck out' in the draft with a young Point Guard.

The only "hope" (there's a word I've used to describe the Suns "planning" in another post) is that his friendship with Warren will get him to re-up.

I expect that the desire to play with a well run and successful team will win out for Payton and the Suns will have found themselves in another no-win situation through very short sighted management.

If the Suns wish to keep him, they will have the ability to match any offer he receives. If it doesn't work out, they can send him on his way, having lost nothing but a second-round pick. Sorry BC, Steve Nashes, John Stocktons, and Chris Pauls don't grow on trees.

 

[SirStefan32]

The rest of the time he’s TRIED to create a competitive team. And he’s failed miserably in that regard.

Yet he still ended up with Booker and Warren. Maybe he should try to be more competitive again.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not trading Bledsoe over the summer was a mistake in hindsight. However, who was to know he would pull these early season shenanigans.



Payton was a good pickup for the price. How he works out long term is a different question.

I suspect the Suns were near falling apart mentally and physically without a PG thus the trade for Payton. The Suns need to keep Booker happy.

But that’s just it, a GOOD GM should have FOREsight that us nonprofessionals don’t. That’s why they get a professional team turned over to their care. Besides, when you say “who was to know . . . “ this is the same guy who wouldn’t talk to the suns for months during his last contract negotiation, was still represented by Paul, and we all agreed he shouldn’t be paid a max deal but he was going to demand one. Uh, I don’t think it was farfetched to imagine some kind of shenanigans at some point and good GM would have anticipated it and been PROACTIVE instead of reactive like McD seems to be often.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don’t think he’d deny that. But the point is, McD has only actually TRIED to tank for a part of a season. The rest of the time he’s TRIED to create a competitive team. And he’s failed miserably in that regard. So just because we might be ending up with the result WE want doesn’t change the fact that McD has actually failed in his gameplan. And THAT’s what he should be judged on - whether he’s accomplished HIS goals - not whether he’s accodentally achieved OUR goals.

Mcdonough's game plan was always to acquire a star. Can't complain him for trying.

Building through the draft has always been a parallel road. There never has been one road.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yet he still ended up with Booker and Warren. Maybe he should try to be more competitive again.

Yes I think he lucked out with Booker. He went where he was projected to go and then exploded on the scene. I give him credit for warren. But he’s really just a solid talent player not a stud. And even in getting those two this team has never, under his construction, been competitive.

 

[pokerface]

way to miss the entire point. The Suns didn't come into the season trying to tank. If they did, I would give them kudos for finally realizing what was necessary to ever get better. McD came into the season thinking we were going to be better and have tanked only to his incompetence in putting a roster together that could do so.

Yeah but aren't you ignoring all the injuries the suns have had? Plus too he canned Watson..that was a correct move.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah but aren't you ignoring all the injuries the suns have had? Plus too he canned Watson..that was a correct move.

In the scheme of things I think the injuries have been average for an nba team.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Plus too he canned Watson..that was a correct move.

Haha after hiring him without conducting much (if any) due diligence on what else was available.

 

[Mainstreet]

But that’s just it, a GOOD GM should have FOREsight that us nonprofessionals don’t. That’s why they get a professional team turned over to their care. Besides, when you say “who was to know . . . “ this is the same guy who wouldn’t talk to the suns for months during his last contract negotiation, was still represented by Paul, and we all agreed he shouldn’t be paid a max deal but he was going to demand one. Uh, I don’t think it was farfetched to imagine some kind of shenanigans at some point and good GM would have anticipated it and been PROACTIVE instead of reactive like McD seems to be often.

Ryan McDonough is 37 and has been the Suns GM for four years. I'm thinking his best years are yet to come.

Sure he has made mistakes but even JC made a ton of mistakes in his early years running the Suns.

JC even tried to coach the Suns. LOL

 

[Cheesebeef]

Mcdonough's game plan was always to acquire a star. Can't complain him for trying.

Okay... well, then we can add one more failure to the list of his underachievement. Because he’s failed miserably to do that.

Building through the draft has always been a parallel road. There never has been one road.

Great. So, he’s been run off the FA road and the road through the draft for the last five years has led to three consecutive seasons where each has been worse than the last.

For that... and atrocious coaching hiring decisions, trading AWAY the best asset the previous group of morons lucked into and making us a complete laughingstock, he deserves to make the biggest two decisions that will effect the next three to five years?

Makes perfect sense.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Haha after hiring him without conducting much (if any) due diligence on what else was available.

I don’t give credit for cleaning up your own mess. That just gets you back to ground zero. And he doesn’t get credit for what the ENTIRE WORLD (even nonNBA-types) could clearly see, that Watson needed to be canned.

 

[pokerface]

Now weren't suns fans in awe when McD got Bender and Chriss in the same draft? Some 'might' say that was almost masterful. Plus when we scored Jackson McD pulled a Jedi mind trick on Ainge...he played JJ too...some 'might' say we stole Jackson.

 

[pokerface]

When I say peaking, McDonough has been trending upwards... towards this draft.

I agree he has not proven he can put a winning product on the floor as yet but I am hoping he is nearing the top.

Once he starts winning and maintaining the talent pool, he will have arrived.

I get what you're saying Mainstreet. McD's moves have basically set us up for this offseason. The ''peak" arrives when he's allowed to follow through on his moves.

 

[Mainstreet]

Now weren't suns fans in awe when McD got Bender and Chriss in the same draft? Some 'might' say that was almost masterful. Plus when we scored Jackson McD pulled a Jedi mind trick on Ainge...he played JJ too...some 'might' say we stole Jackson.

Indeed memories are short.

So McDonough drafts Warren in the 2014 draft, Booker in the 2015 draft, Bender and Chriss in the 2016 draft and Jackson in the 2017 draft and yet some are still complaining.

Now the Suns are prepared to go all-in in the 2018 draft and make off season moves and some are still complaining.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If you want the Suns to keep rewarding failure, I fear that’s exactly what you’re going to get moving forward.

And when that comes to pass, please don’t bring up “hindsight” to those of us who saw it coming.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

Indeed memories are short.

So McDonough drafts Warren in the 2014 draft, Booker in the 2015 draft, Bender and Chriss in the 2016 draft and Jackson in the 2017 draft and yet some are still complaining.

Now the Suns are prepared to go all-in in the 2018 draft and make off season moves and some are still complaining.

Part of drafting them is also hiring a coach to develop them properly. McD has all the picks in the world, but has been playing musical chairs with coaches to develop these guys.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Indeed memories are short.

So McDonough drafts Warren in the 2014 draft, Booker in the 2015 draft, Bender and Chriss in the 2016 draft and Jackson in the 2017 draft and yet some are still complaining.

Now the Suns are prepared to go all-in in the 2018 draft and make off season moves and some are still complaining.

You’re acting like all of the above has the team getting better... when it’s consistently gotten WORSE since 2014.

Real head scratcher why people would be complaining...

 

[Mainstreet]

If you want the Suns to keep rewarding failure, I fear that’s exactly what you’re going to get moving forward.

And when that comes to pass, please don’t bring up “hindsight” to those of us who saw it coming.

And give credit for "foresight" if it turns out well.

 

[Covert Rain]

Indeed memories are short.

So McDonough drafts Warren in the 2014 draft, Booker in the 2015 draft, Bender and Chriss in the 2016 draft and Jackson in the 2017 draft and yet some are still complaining.

Now the Suns are prepared to go all-in in the 2018 draft and make off season moves and some are still complaining.

Many moves at the outset seem good or high potential. That’s doesn’t mean if it doesn’t workout memories are short.

That means the results of those moves are playing out or have played out to the extent you can more accurately look at the results.

Some people are acting like once you form an opinion it can’t change based on what is unfolding. At the end of the day results is what dictates if those moves end up being brilliant or bad. I could care less what people felt at the time of the moves. Those can be valid first impressions verses short memories.

 

[Mainstreet]

Part of drafting them is also hiring a coach to develop them properly. McD has all the picks in the world, but has been playing musical chairs with coaches to develop these guys.

Indeed, the Suns have not identified the right head coach. No sugar coating that. I suspect Sarver does not want to pay a commensurate salary for a good head coach.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And give credit for "foresight" if it turns out well.

Sure... but considering we’re talking about a guy who’s hired/fired/will have fired three head coaches, led the team to become a double 50 point loser, had all the lotto picks in the world only to see his team with its WORST record in year five of his tenure... I’d call it more hope, than foresight.

And I ain’t holding my breath for more hope from a guy who’s created a hopeless franchise... which is saying A TON considering how awful the franchise was when he got here.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Many moves at the outset seem good or high potential. That’s doesn’t mean if it doesn’t workout memories are short.

That means the results of those moves are playing out or have played out to the extent you can more accurately look at the results.

Some people are acting like once you form an opinion it can’t change based on what is unfolding. At the end of the day results is what dictates if those moves end up being brilliant or bad. I could care less what people felt at the time of the moves. Those can be valid first impressions verses short memories.

Bingo

 

[Mainstreet]

Many moves at the outset seem good or high potential. That’s doesn’t mean if it doesn’t workout memories are short.

That means the results of those moves are playing out or have played out to the extent you can more accurately look at the results.

Some people are acting like once you form an opinion it can’t change based on what is unfolding. At the end of the day results is what dictates if those moves end up being brilliant or bad. I could care less what people felt at the time of the moves. Those can be valid first impressions verses short memories.

Only saying these draft choices looked good at the time and still have a good chance to be quality selections.

Warren and Booker are mostly proven.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

Indeed, the Suns have not identified the right head coach. No sugar coating that. I suspect Sarver does not want to pay a commensurate salary for a good head coach.

I've heard the opposite...Sarver didn't like the Watson experiment and wants to go out and get a good HC, regardless of the cost. Supposedly he's been very unhappy with how long this rebuild is taking.