Should the Suns keep Ryan McDonough as GM

[Mainstreet]

I've heard the opposite...Sarver didn't like the Watson experiment and wants to go out and get a good HC, regardless of the cost. Supposedly he's been very unhappy with how long this rebuild is taking.

This would be music to my ears.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Here’s the thing... I would HAPPY AS A PIG IN SLOP to be wrong.

I HATE HATE HATE that I just don’t give a crap about the Suns... or really the NBA anymore. I would LOVE for us to even be watchable again. I just haven’t seen enough from
McD to make me think he’s the guy to get us there.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This would be music to my ears.

Mine too... but do you think a big-time legit coach comes here under the wing of a GM on a short leash, who’s led the team to nothing but failure... and pretty ugly player fallout over the last four years?

 

[Mainstreet]

Here’s the thing... I would HAPPY AS A PIG IN SLOP to be wrong.

I HATE HATE HATE that I just don’t give a crap about the Suns... or really the NBA anymore. I would LOVE for us to even be watchable again. I just haven’t seen enough from
McD to make me think he’s the guy to get us there.

I'm heavily invested in the Suns so if they crash... well I'm going to hit bottom.

I can only tell you (right or wrong), I think McDonough is in the best position to right the ship this summer.

 

[Mainstreet]

Mine too... but do you think a big-time legit coach comes here under the wing of a GM on a short leash, who’s led the team to nothing but failure... and pretty ugly player fallout over the last four years?

Good question and a tougher answer.

I don't think the Suns need to hire a big name coach but a coach who has experience coaching in the NBA or other appropriate background.

 

[BC867]

He’s a restricted free agent. This is nothing but upside for suns. They gave away a 2nd round pick they got for free for a former number 10 overall pick whose numbers aren’t bad and he’s still young and because he’s a restricted free agent he’s under suns control. So if succeeds he’s stuck but likely gets a nice payday. If he stinks we are out a 3nd round pick we got for free. Your post has zero merit.

If the Suns wish to keep him, they will have the ability to match any offer he receives. If it doesn't work out, they can send him on his way, having lost nothing but a second-round pick. Sorry BC, Steve Nashes, John Stocktons, and Chris Pauls don't grow on trees.

Thank you Ouchie and Stef for the explanations. My concern was being able to keep him if he succeeds. I overlooked that he is a restricted free agent.

And Stef, we don't need a superstar Point Guard. Just one with some size to play defense, do some scoring and, mainly, make (and want to make) the rest of the team better. I'm sure pulling for him to succeed.

 

[BC867]

I've heard the opposite...Sarver didn't like the Watson experiment and wants to go out and get a good HC, regardless of the cost. Supposedly he's been very unhappy with how long this rebuild is taking.

I'll believe that when I see it. Until then, history doesn't support it.

And I'll still consider him a butthole for not having done it sooner ... if he does.

A lot of fans know more about the moves of the Suns than those of the management of Fry's Food Stores, for example.

I wonder Sarver he ever followed the moves of the Suns while he was in Tucson running his bank. The Az Republic is a statewide newspaper. And AzCentral.com is available to all in Arizona. And Suns games are televised throughout the State.

He gives the impression that he did not. And then because he is the largest minority owner he is named Managing General Partner and becomes a dictator (and even his own GM).

I am really curious to know if being Managing General Partner automatically goes to the largest investor or if skills come into play. 'Anybody know?

 

[SirStefan32]

Thank you Ouchie and Stef for the explanations. My concern was being able to keep him if he succeeds. I overlooked that he is a restricted free agent.

And Stef, we don't need a superstar Point Guard. Just one with some size to play defense, do some scoring and, mainly, make (and want to make) the rest of the team better. I'm sure pulling for him to succeed.

Sounds like we are on the same page.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Now weren't suns fans in awe when McD got Bender and Chriss in the same draft? Some 'might' say that was almost masterful. Plus when we scored Jackson McD pulled a Jedi mind trick on Ainge...he played JJ too...some 'might' say we stole Jackson.

But getting bender and chriss is only masterful if he was right to acquire them. In other words if they were worth the draft slots and trade up. And that’s not determined by where internet “experts” expect them to go but by real life facts . . . are they good or not. If not, then maybe acquiring them is just a matter of other, better, GMs recognizing that particular draft was three deep and that anyone else was just a roll of the dice gamble. If our gm does things that seem to good to us at the time but play out poorly then our highly paid PROFESSIONAL GM is no better than one of us at GMing. And though I think highly of my basketball knowledge I certainly HOPE the professional GM of my favorite professional sports teams is better at their job than I would be.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I get what you're saying Mainstreet. McD's moves have basically set us up for this offseason. The ''peak" arrives when he's allowed to follow through on his moves.

No the “peak” only occurs if he’s allow d to follow through and the moves WORK. If they are utter failures then he never really peaks, does he? Or I guess rather, maybe his “peak” is “suck” if that occurs.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Indeed memories are short.

So McDonough drafts Warren in the 2014 draft, Booker in the 2015 draft, Bender and Chriss in the 2016 draft and Jackson in the 2017 draft and yet some are still complaining.

Now the Suns are prepared to go all-in in the 2018 draft and make off season moves and some are still complaining.

Warren might have been a few spots higher than projected.

Booker was drafted EXACTLY where he was projected to be picked.

Bender was drafted EXACTLY where he was projected.

Chriss was drafted in the range of projected picks.

Jackson was drafted EXACTLY where projected or even a slot lower.

So I’m other words a child instructed to use the online mock drafts as a guide would’ve achieved basically the same results. Except maybe he wouldn’t have traded up to grab chriss and we would’ve had skal and whomever else sac got in that trade. Which ironically might have made us better.

 

[pokerface]

But getting bender and chriss is only masterful if he was right to acquire them. In other words if they were worth the draft slots and trade up. And that’s not determined by where internet “experts” expect them to go but by real life facts . . . are they good or not. If not, then maybe acquiring them is just a matter of other, better, GMs recognizing that particular draft was three deep and that anyone else was just a roll of the dice gamble. If our gm does things that seem to good to us at the time but play out poorly then our highly paid PROFESSIONAL GM is no better than one of us at GMing. And though I think highly of my basketball knowledge I certainly HOPE the professional GM of my favorite professional sports teams is better at their job than I would be.

I have to call bs on that Ouchie because...

1) There is a crap shoot element to the draft that is unavoidable.

2) They are young and the verdict is still out on them.

3) The majority of the media was giving them a draft grade of "B".

4) A lot of us were thrilled to get both players and now we turn on McD.

I get your point that McD is highly paid and should "know better" but c'mon ... Nbadraft and other mock drafts had these players in that draft range. You can't call McD stupid over it when virtually everyone applauded and predicted it.

 

[pokerface]

No the “peak” only occurs if he’s allow d to follow through and the moves WORK. If they are utter failures then he never really peaks, does he? Or I guess rather, maybe his “peak” is “suck” if that occurs.

I still say you can't fully judge until the chips are played. The verdict is still out on a lot of this stuff.

 

[Mainstreet]

Warren might have been a few spots higher than projected.

Booker was drafted EXACTLY where he was projected to be picked.

Bender was drafted EXACTLY where he was projected.

Chriss was drafted in the range of projected picks.

Jackson was drafted EXACTLY where projected or even a slot lower.

So I’m other words a child instructed to use the online mock drafts as a guide would’ve achieved basically the same results. Except maybe he wouldn’t have traded up to grab chriss and we would’ve had skal and whomever else sac got in that trade. Which ironically might have made us better.

Hmm. So easy a child can do it.

Maybe the Suns do not need a GM.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And give credit for "foresight" if it turns out well.

When people call it right I give them all the credit in the world.

 

[Mainstreet]

When people call it right I give them all the credit in the world.

I do not care about hindsight or foresight as long as the Suns take the next step.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm heavily invested in the Suns so if they crash... well I'm going to hit bottom.

I can only tell you (right or wrong), I think McDonough is in the best position to right the ship this summer.

Ah “best position,” yes. The right guy to maximize that position? Eh . . .

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Hmm. So easy a child can do it.

Maybe the Suns do not need a GM.

I mean, I’m open to thinking otherwise. But tell me where my reasoning is wrong. Weren’t most of these guys slotted to go where they went? So their selection didn’t really require superior insight just doing what’s expected. If McD drafted a guy super early that people were calling a reach, like Giannis, or majerle back in the day, you could say “wow, he really knew what he was doing!” But I don’t see any of those. Even in trades he hasn’t exactly unearthed any unexpected gems, talent-wise.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I do not care about hindsight or foresight as long as the Suns take the next step.

I think all of us would agree. But I’ll be honest it chaps out hides when we are skeptical about something and vocally call it out to be derided as darksiders and pessimists and then when we are proven right it’s dismissed as “hindsight.”

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I have to call bs on that Ouchie because...

1) There is a crap shoot element to the draft that is unavoidable.

2) They are young and the verdict is still out on them.

3) The majority of the media was giving them a draft grade of "B".

4) A lot of us were thrilled to get both players and now we turn on McD.

I get your point that McD is highly paid and should "know better" but c'mon ... Nbadraft and other mock drafts had these players in that draft range. You can't call McD stupid over it when virtually everyone applauded and predicted it.

So you’re saying the internet writers who said these players should go in those slots applauded a GM for taking them in those slots?!? That’s called grading your own paper! And a GM is supposed to be SMARTER than the writers at nbadraft.com or those writers would be GMs!

I’m not “all out” on the young guys. I’m just saying if they suck you can’t give McD a pass because internet experts agreed with him. If anything it evidences his lack of acumen necessary for leading an nba club.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think all of us would agree. But I’ll be honest it chaps out hides when we are skeptical about something and vocally call it out to be derided as darksiders and pessimists and then when we are proven right it’s dismissed as “hindsight.”

I'm not sure who is being called "darksiders" or "pessimists."

For all I know you might be right. However, I choose to be optimistic.

Hopefully we are all on the say boat this summer.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not sure who is being called "darksiders" or "pessimists."

For all I know you might be right. However, I choose to be optimistic.

Hopefully we are all on the say boat this summer.

It occurs mostly in the cards board so perhaps I carry my “wounds” over.

As for this summer, I can’t see how we all can’t be on the same page.

 

[Covert Rain]

This team has had GREAT trades. This team has had some pretty damn good draft picks. The one thing about this organization that frustrates me? When is the last big time coach this team has had?

 

[Mainstreet]

This team has had GREAT trades. This team has had some pretty damn good draft picks. The one thing about this organization that frustrates me? When is the last big time coach this team has had?

Mike D'antoni.

Some fans may boo but it's true.

 

[BC867]

My vote is Cotton. I'll never forget the time when he was coaching KC/Omaha and his two star Guards were out with injury in the post-season -- Birdsong and, I think, Ford.

Cotton started two Centers and three Forwards and walloped the Suns, because he knew that, in the post-season, power beats finesse. I was so glad to see him come back to coach the Suns for a second time.