Should the Suns keep Ryan McDonough as GM

[Covert Rain]

Vindicating a style of play takes more than just one team doing it and it doesn’t vindicate the coach himself.

The triangle has been attempted by many teams without a player named Jordan or Kobe running it and failed spectacularly. You could make an argument for the triangle but Phil also ran both those teams and had two generational players to boot.

Golden State wasn’t the first team to copy Mike D’s style and none of them were successful until Curry ran it.

 

[Mainstreet]

Vindicating a style of play takes more than just one team doing it and it doesn’t vindicate the coach himself.

The triangle has been attempted by many teams without a player named Jordan or Kobe running it and failed spectacularly. You could make an argument for the triangle but Phil also ran both those teams and had two generational players to boot.

Golden State wasn’t the first team to copy Mike D’s style and none of them were successful until Curry ran it.

I think it takes a PG with optimal skills to run a spread offense like Nash or Curry to be most effective. Still I think a lesser PG might be able to run it with perhaps less impact. The same with the triangle, it takes the right players and commitment to run it.

I like the way GS has added a focus towards defense to modify the system. Systems can always be improved.

IMO, it doesn't take winning a championship to vindicate a system. I don't think many people would question Jerry Sloan's ability to coach although he never coached a team to an NBA championship.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think it takes a PG with optimal skills to run a spread offense like Nash or Curry to be most effective. Still I think a lesser PG might be able to run it with perhaps less impact. The same with the triangle, it takes the right players and commitment to run it.

I like the way GS has added a focus towards defense to modify the system. Systems can always be improved.

IMO, it doesn't take winning a championship to vindicate a system. I don't think many people would question Jerry Sloan's ability to coach although he never coached a team to an NBA championship.

And that's where a lot of us had problem with D'Antoni. For years, he refused to adjust. He played his seven-player rotations, had zero regards for defense, and refused to play rookies. Warriors were a good defensive team, and they had deep rotations. Without looking it up, I'd say that they had about 11 players who played significant minutes (Curry, Thompson, Barnes, Green, Bogut, Iggy, Livingston, Barbosa, Ezeli, Lee, and Speights) during their first run. If I remember correctly, that tightened up to about eight or nine in the playoffs, with the three back-up bigs getting fewer minutes. Maybe my memory is off, but I don't recall the Suns every playing more than two guys off the bench in playoffs. It was always Barbosa, and then the second one changed from year to year.

His stubbornness and the inability (or unwillingness) to make any adjustments is why so many of us despise D'Antoni. Funny thing is...he did the same thing in Huston last year. Started with eight, and then shortened it to seven. He has some good defenders on his roster now, but while I haven't been paying attention to the Rockets, my guess is that the defensive players will start seeing less time on the floor in favor of the Ryan Andersons and Gerald Greens of the world.

 

[BC867]

By winning percentage the Suns best head coaches respectively were Westhphal, Cotton, D'Antoni and Ainge with Westphal having the best winning percentage

I expect that the winning percentages you quote are regular season. D'Antoni's seven-second-or-less offense combined with a rotation of 7.5 players and disdain for playing defense had the team, especially Steve, drained come playoff time.

D'Antoni put on a show during the regular season, but the NBA is a marathon, not a sprint, and he has never shown that he can coach that. He is a 1-trick pony.

 

[BC867]

And that's where a lot of us had problem with D'Antoni. For years, he refused to adjust. He played his seven-player rotations, had zero regards for defense, and refused to play rookies. Warriors were a good defensive team, and they had deep rotations. Without looking it up, I'd say that they had about 11 players who played significant minutes (Curry, Thompson, Barnes, Green, Bogut, Iggy, Livingston, Barbosa, Ezeli, Lee, and Speights) during their first run. If I remember correctly, that tightened up to about eight or nine in the playoffs, with the three back-up bigs getting fewer minutes. Maybe my memory is off, but I don't recall the Suns every playing more than two guys off the bench in playoffs. It was always Barbosa, and then the second one changed from year to year.

His stubbornness and the inability (or unwillingness) to make any adjustments is why so many of us despise D'Antoni. Funny thing is...he did the same thing in Huston last year. Started with eight, and then shortened it to seven. He has some good defenders on his roster now, but while I haven't been paying attention to the Rockets, my guess is that the defensive players will start seeing less time on the floor in favor of the Ryan Andersons and Gerald Greens of the world.

Right on, Stef.

 

[hcsilla]

While I do believe he is the most overrated coach in the NBA and that he will never win a championship,

There is a chance Houston will deny you this season. They have a legit chance, they have everything to win a championship, it will be an exciting WCF.

 

[hcsilla]

One more thing to McD as a GM: I do hate this veteran leadership bullsh.t when it comes to Chandler and Dudley. I understand that veteran leadership is existing and to some extent it is needed but keep spending 23 mil. cap space on it is silly.

Especially Dudley being only a shadow of his former himself and Chandler being declining.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Especially Dudley being only a shadow of his former himself and Chandler being declining.

No way to get them out cheap. Next year is the last we will see them in Suns gear.

 

[hcsilla]

No way to get them out cheap. Next year is the last we will see them in Suns gear.

This year as their last would have been better.

 

[SirStefan32]

One more thing to McD as a GM: I do hate this veteran leadership bullsh.t when it comes to Chandler and Dudley. I understand that veteran leadership is existing and to some extent it is needed but keep spending 23 mil. cap space on it is silly.

Especially Dudley being only a shadow of his former himself and Chandler being declining.

Eh, they have to pay someone. It might as well be two old dudes who are pure professionals. I don't understand this fantasy about having 15 18-25 year old on the roster.

 

[pokerface]

Eh, they have to pay someone. It might as well be two old dudes who are pure professionals. I don't understand this fantasy about having 15 18-25 year old on the roster.

We could have made a bigger splash in free agency with them gone...and maybe a couple more losses to our tank. But it is what it is which isn't so bad right now.

 

[Superbone]

Are you f’n kidding? He should have traded Bledsoe over the summer when he KNEW he wasn’t going to sign him to a massive extension. That’s for starters. He could have also not talked crap about ANOTHER player leaving the team after he himself couldn’t foresee the mess he was about to step into.

Here’s the REAL. This team is ATROCIOUS and he DIDNT THINK IT WOULD BE GOING INTO THE SEASON. For that alone, his ass should be canned.

And I’m not saying replace him right now. But you can bet your ass if we could replace Earl “I Love You Man” Watson because he was embarrassing, we can sure as hell replace the moron who gave him the job... WITHOUT EVEN INTERVIEWING ANYONE ELSE.

McD's biggest flaw is his slowness to react. Colangelo on the other hand was a decisive decision maker.

 

[Cheesebeef]

McD's biggest flaw is his slowness to react. Colangelo on the other hand was a decisive decision maker.

Yeah. He’s super reactive. It bothers the hell out of me... if you hadn’t noticed.

 

[Cheesebeef]

There is a chance Houston will deny you this season. They have a legit chance, they have everything to win a championship, it will be an exciting WCF.

They’ll get rolled in 5 against the Warriors.

 

[Chaplin]

One more thing to McD as a GM: I do hate this veteran leadership bullsh.t when it comes to Chandler and Dudley. I understand that veteran leadership is existing and to some extent it is needed but keep spending 23 mil. cap space on it is silly.

Especially Dudley being only a shadow of his former himself and Chandler being declining.

I don't get why Dudley gets dumped on so much. The guy is barely playing and there aren't many better veterans you'd want around young guys. This is a guy that arguably shouldn't be in the league anymore, but somehow is able to. I think he's invaluable to a young team. I would say the same about Chandler if his minutes weren't as high as they are.

 

[hcsilla]

I don't get why Dudley gets dumped on so much. The guy is barely playing and there aren't many better veterans you'd want around young guys. This is a guy that arguably shouldn't be in the league anymore, but somehow is able to. I think he's invaluable to a young team. I would say the same about Chandler if his minutes weren't as high as they are.

That's quite moving but Dudley takes 10 mil. cap space, while Chandler does 13 mil.

If all what they do is being the veterans around young guys, that's a very costly service.

 

[hcsilla]

Eh, they have to pay someone.

Are you serious?

It might as well be two old dudes who are pure professionals. I don't understand this fantasy about having 15 18-25 year old on the roster.

Did I imply that?

They can be 25 or 32 years old, they just should contribute significantly and should represent something valuable and all that should be in correspondence with their salaries.

 

[SirStefan32]

Are you serious?



Did I imply that?

They can be 25 or 32 years old, they just should contribute significantly and should represent something valuable and all that should be in correspondence with their salaries.

Yes, I am very serious. There is a minimum payroll teams need to meet. Who cares if they are paying two old guys or distributing the money they didn't spend to the rest of the players.

As to your second point, if they signed someone valuable, people would be crying about them hurting their draft position. Hell, people complain about Chandler and Dudley. Imagine how much complaining there would be if they signed better veterans. Dudley and Chandler are fine. They will clear $25M or so off of the Suns' payroll after next season.

 

[Chaplin]

That's quite moving but Dudley takes 10 mil. cap space, while Chandler does 13 mil.

If all what they do is being the veterans around young guys, that's a very costly service.

So what? It's not like they can't afford it. If they had 5 guys like that, it'd be a problem, but it's only 2. We have 20 other problems more pressing than that. This is just complaining for complaining's sake.

 

[hcsilla]

They will clear $25M or so off of the Suns' payroll after next season.

, that's the most and the best what you can say about them which is saying much.

 

[hcsilla]

So what? It's not like they can't afford it. If they had 5 guys like that, it'd be a problem, but it's only 2. We have 20 other problems more pressing than that. This is just complaining for complaining's sake.

No, it's not.

Signing them for long-term contracts was a mistake, not trying to trade them when there is (very) little need for their services is another.

Having them reduces heavily Suns' cap flexibility next summer and the best and most wanted thing is regarding Chandler and Dudley expiring their contracts in summer of 2019.

 

[Mainstreet]

Signing Chandler to fully guaranteed contract was understandable because the Suns were trying to sign Aldridge. I don't think the Suns could have got him for less. He has proven more than serviceable. Also Chandler plays the mentor role.

What I don't get is Dudley's fully guaranteed contract without at least a team option for next season. Three years fully guaranteed for $30 million was a bit much.

I think we can see the Suns were waiting to make a big splash after the 2018-19 season when Bledsoe's contract expired as well.

 

[elindholm]

Chandler's and Dudley's contracts are too long. In Chandler's case, the team believed that they might get better soon, and it made sense to pay for a legitimate center, even if meant committing to extra years. The Suns got Chandler for a relative bargain, given the level of player he is. (Remember that they signed him in the summer that contracts went crazy, and people like Mirza Teletovic and Jon Leuer were getting contracts almost as large as Chandler's.) Now that it's clear that the Suns are worse now than they were a few years ago, retaining Chandler makes no sense, but the move was defensible at the time.

The Dudley signing was a mystery from the moment it happened. Yes, they had to spend money on someone, but it is certain that Dudley would have taken two years instead of three, since (as Chaplin correctly observed) he does not really belong in the league anymore and the Suns were doing him a favor to sign him at all. If the Suns were hell-bent on paying Dudley $30 million for the sake of generosity, they could have front-loaded it and/or included a (smaller) third-year buyout.

If the Suns, against all odds, have the chance to make a big move in free agency this summer, Chandler can probably be unloaded, one way or another. Dudley's contract is smaller, but since he brings so little to the floor, he has greater negative value than Chandler does.

 

[Chaplin]

Chandler's and Dudley's contracts are too long. In Chandler's case, the team believed that they might get better soon, and it made sense to pay for a legitimate center, even if meant committing to extra years. The Suns got Chandler for a relative bargain, given the level of player he is. (Remember that they signed him in the summer that contracts went crazy, and people like Mirza Teletovic and Jon Leuer were getting contracts almost as large as Chandler's.) Now that it's clear that the Suns are worse now than they were a few years ago, retaining Chandler makes no sense, but the move was defensible at the time.

The Dudley signing was a mystery from the moment it happened. Yes, they had to spend money on someone, but it is certain that Dudley would have taken two years instead of three, since (as Chaplin correctly observed) he does not really belong in the league anymore and the Suns were doing him a favor to sign him at all. If the Suns were hell-bent on paying Dudley $30 million for the sake of generosity, they could have front-loaded it and/or included a (smaller) third-year buyout.

If the Suns, against all odds, have the chance to make a big move in free agency this summer, Chandler can probably be unloaded, one way or another. Dudley's contract is smaller, but since he brings so little to the floor, he has greater negative value than Chandler does.

But how negative? Who would possibly sign here if not for Dudley's contract?

 

[elindholm]

But how negative? Who would possibly sign here if not for Dudley's contract?

Those questions are unrelated.