Should the Suns trade Steve Nash after this season?

[sunsfan88]

"For Nash to play like a superstar, it’s necessary that he leads a high pick and roll, open-court, open-floor offense like he has throughout his Phoenix career. In Dallas, Nash was less than a superstar.

Nash is a superstar because of the style of offense he leads, a style that creates misguided personnel decisions, one that will never win a championship because of the type of personnel required to play in it. Yet a style that is just good enough in the regular season to create an effective illusion.

While most all of Nash’s teammates have improved their offensive efficiency in Phoenix, very few were championship-caliber role-players.

Sarver’s front offices have made myriad attempts to build championship teams around Nash, including the hybrid half-court teams with Shaq, and the full-out floor spacing, 10-seconds-or-less teams.

The problem is that by default, any team built around Nash’s superstar floor attributes can never win a championship.

The efforts should be made to transition fully out of the Nash system. The trade of Goran Dragic was a head-scratcher in that regard, among others. The problem is the Nash illusion is too real, too captivating to let go.

Maybe Phoenix fans are happy with a middling team so long as Nash is doing his thing. To be honest, I can actually respect that. But don’t be fooled about what it is or ever was."

http://www.statepress.com/2011/03/23/nash%E2%80%99s-illusion-continues-to-fool-suns-fans/

I love Steve and I think he will retire as a top 10 PG of all-time but this article is right. We will never win a championship playin like this every year and I think its best to trade Nash for picks and rebuild.

 

[mojorizen7]

"For Nash to play like a superstar, it’s necessary that he leads a high pick and roll, open-court, open-floor offense like he has throughout his Phoenix career. In Dallas, Nash was less than a superstar.

Nash is a superstar because of the style of offense he leads, a style that creates misguided personnel decisions, one that will never win a championship because of the type of personnel required to play in it. Yet a style that is just good enough in the regular season to create an effective illusion.

While most all of Nash’s teammates have improved their offensive efficiency in Phoenix, very few were championship-caliber role-players.

Sarver’s front offices have made myriad attempts to build championship teams around Nash, including the hybrid half-court teams with Shaq, and the full-out floor spacing, 10-seconds-or-less teams.

The problem is that by default, any team built around Nash’s superstar floor attributes can never win a championship.

The efforts should be made to transition fully out of the Nash system. The trade of Goran Dragic was a head-scratcher in that regard, among others. The problem is the Nash illusion is too real, too captivating to let go.

Maybe Phoenix fans are happy with a middling team so long as Nash is doing his thing. To be honest, I can actually respect that. But don’t be fooled about what it is or ever was."

Sunsfan88,
I figured this all out nearly 4 years ago,and would've traded Nash 2 years ago,when he could've netted us some great value in return.

Begrudgingly>>

Another NashHill re-tool this summer would be beyond ridiculous and downright pathetic.

 

[Errntknght]

Sunsfan88,
I figured this all out nearly 4 years ago,and would've traded Nash 2 years ago,when he could've netted us some great value in return.

Begrudgingly>>

Another NashHill re-tool this summer would be beyond ridiculous and downright pathetic.

I figured 'it' out after one year of D'Antoni but not quite the same 'it' as yours or Sunsfan's. Its far from clear to me that Nash's style encourages FO's and coaches to shun defense and make bad personnel decisions. We have had a weak D culture in Phoenix almost from the very beginning. I want to dump Gentry because he didn't recognize it last year when the second unit was having success due to defense - which was an opportunity to start changing the culture.

Yes, Nash's individual defense is poor but a good defensive team could cover for him enough so his net effect on games would be positive - heck, its strikingly positive now with this team.

Anyway, you need to break Nash's style down to two components - pushing the tempo and half court game.

No one will ever convince me that a fast tempo is bad basketball - the Auerbach Celtics and to a lesser extent the Showtime Lakers played very up tempo and were both terrific defensive teams. Many time champions, too, in case you're not aware of history.

Nash's freelance style in the half court is more problematic and, of course, the problem with it shows up when he's not on the floor. Its mainly a coaching problem and the first hurdle for the coaches is to recognize it and face it head on because they have virtually no chance of finding a backup that can successfully play Nash's style.

Its really not an insurmountable task for the players to learn a goodly chunk of a normal NBA playbook plus what is required for Nash to operate - Jackson's teams have to learn the triangle offense which is reputedly much more complex than typical NBA offenses. They seem to manage, somehow.

Of course they have to practice the plays the backup PG will run, which is probably a more difficult task. Its not entirely wasted time because they need to practice defending against those plays regularly anyway. The biggest hurdle many coaches would face would be delegating the responsibility for the backup offense to an assistant so there's someone who worries about it full time - and has the authority to do his job properly.

If the team is deep enough you could 'two-platoon' the way the Suns did the last half of the season last year. Personally I like this approach but I realize that a couple of untimely injuries could send your carefully laid plans down the crapper. Or a FO that was more concerned about making good deals than with giving the coach what he needs.

I'm certainly not advocating keeping the Nash style alive at this point. I want a new, better coach and at this juncture in Nash's career I think the coach should determine the style. If he wants to keep Nash and Nash wants to play for him, let them hash out how to transition to post-Nash era.

 

[jibikao]

Suns has never won a championship so by default, any team that Suns built is not a championship caliber. If you use this as a measurement, then any player Suns got should be traded?

I think during Nash/Suns era, it was pretty close to Final. Two trips to West Conference Final isn't that easy. We had some key injuries and bad lucks.

I actually admire Suns for trying to win with an offensive team. I like the under-dog mentality.

This year is ****ed up because Suns didn't want to keep Amare for that long (which I agree) and they didn't find anybody even half as good until Gortat came into the picture. And during that first 10 games or so, they were messing with the rotation and Suns were losing even more until they've decided on the rotation and got into a rhythm. By the time Suns was "hot", Nash was about to wear out by playing so many minutes per game and Frye got injured.

We've learned a few things this year:

1. Keep Gortat and Dudley
2. Frye has improved a lot
3. Lopez sucks REALLY HARD

 

[Mettler]

whats up fellas, just joined today. long time Phoenix fan (eventhough i live in Ohio).

I agree with everyone mostly that Lopez is playing awful. Im glad to see Gortat getting that start and Dudley and Childress stepping up.

As a fan i never want to see Nash traded but i think rebuilding is prolly the best thing for us. It seems we have got better as the year has gone by , Nash and Gortat and young players improving but its just not good enought to stand up to the leauge leading teams.

Hope to join in on convos on this forum.

Mettler

 

[95pro]

we should have traded nash at the start of this season. he still had some mild value and could have brought us something usefull. now that our season is over, im not too sure what other teams value him at. what is evident is his age, he is gassed and broken down right now. we know this because he doesnt miss shots like he has been lately, when he does...he's injured. sure we could have limited his minutes. but basically he's done as top pg who can play an entire season without injury. we've seen him break down the last two years with nagging injuries. it's just time to part ways with him.
also too, there's no denying that he at his age, he would want to win a championship. he's said all the right words regarding riding this ship of current suns. but anyone who's as competitive as nash is, that has time running against them would deep-down want to win a championship of course. who wouldnt? we've seen him cry when losing out, what does that tell you? he wants a ring, i dont mind letting nash go if he wants to. it'd be nice to see a nice guy win for once.
its just the proper thing for a fan of nash and a fan of the suns.

 

[Absolute Zero]

If we can get decent value, yes trade him.

If not, bring him off the bench for 20 minutes a game. That can start right now as far as I am concerned.

We have to start the transition to the post Nash era. The sooner the better.

 

[JS22]

No, because you're not going to get anything decent for him. Plus, the Suns have been a LOT better post Gortat trade. If the Suns replace the corpse of Vince Carter with a legitimate scoring / ISO threat, and Lopez can regain some form next year they'll be playing for home court advantage again.

 

[AfroSuns]

No, because you're not going to get anything decent for him. Plus, the Suns have been a LOT better post Gortat trade. If the Suns replace the corpse of Vince Carter with a legitimate scoring / ISO threat, and Lopez can regain some form next year they'll be playing for home court advantage again.

This!
Where exactly are you going to find a replacement for Nash now aside from the draft, better still name 6 PG in the league right now that is better than Nash.
I am all for trading him if you get a good offer, but isn't this how we were all asking for Amare to be traded yet we overlooked that there are only a handful that can replace him.
Put nice defensive pieces around Nash and players that can actually "make" shots when they get the ball.

 

[desertdawg]

I don't see us getting the good trade value for Nash or Lopez, I hope they are both here next year. If Brooks can't sit on the bench for a year behind the likes of Steve Nash, then he has a problem. I think Baby Brooks has more class than that, and I hope he is still here after Nash is retired.

 

[Covert Rain]

I have been an advocate for trading Nash that past couple season myself. Only because I have maintained that unless the Suns could surround him with enough decent talent, this teams main weakness would always be dribble penetration. Therefore, this team would never get the stops they need down the stretch of tight playoff games. Nash's defense has always been a huge Achilles to the Suns. Also, that we should trade him while he has any value left at all.

Not that any of that has changed but I think it's too late to get anything of value for Nash. I think most teams know that Nash will hit the proverbial ceiling at any time and they are not going to give up alot to get a guy like that. Look at Nash's injuries this year. Maybe he is already hitting that ceiling. Teams are going to look at his health at the end of the season this year and say....maybe his is the beginning of the end for Nash.

If I was Nash, I would request a trade and latch on as a backup PG on a contending team or a team contending team that is maybe a PG away. We won't get much in return. The only other viable option is to let him finish his career and play him until he drops. The Suns have actually made strides in defense since getting a legit center in Gortat. Other guys seem to be playing better defense since the trade. It's just ironic that something I have been screaming for since D'Antoni was here is now happening as Nash's career is ending.

 

[AfroSuns]

This article, to a certain extent tells what the Suns think about trading Nash or Hill.

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/featur...grant-hill-feature/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

 

[Covert Rain]

This article, to a certain extent tells what the Suns think about trading Nash or Hill.

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/featur...grant-hill-feature/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

Here is the most interesting part of that article:

"Nash's agent, Bill Duffy, has already begun saying that it's time to trade Nash."

Sounds like to me Nash is ready to move on from the Suns versus the Suns ready to move on from Nash.

 

[JS22]

I still think, given a complete offseason and preseason, that Brooks can be one of the best backups in the league and a solid starter. So hopefully he stays and the Suns split time between him and Nash. This would prolong Nash's career by a few years. Similar to Stockton.

 

[AfroSuns]

Here is the most interesting part of that article:

"Nash's agent, Bill Duffy, has already begun saying that it's time to trade Nash."

Sounds like to me Nash is ready to move on from the Suns versus the Suns ready to move on from Nash.

Yup.
I think that is largely due to the direction the FO went after they let Amare go. Even Nash has said they did not get a replacement for Amare.

Here or on some other team, Nash will still be very effective. I think the advancements in medicine, will actually allow players that take good care of their bodies to play longer. Heck, he is not even the oldest starter in the league, but i wont be shocked if he is the fittest

 

[SweetD]

No I would like to see him retire as a Suns.

 

[Covert Rain]

No I would like to see him retire as a Suns.

We might not have a choice if that article is accurate. Sounds like Steve wants to go. I honestly think that this franchise has enough class left it in, where if Steve asks for a trade, the Suns will comply.

 

[Mainstreet]

If the Suns cannot get value for Nash, they are better off to keep him and address other positions of need. Too bad the Suns FO could not have seen the writing on the wall before the trading deadline in February. This Suns team was just a marginal team at best.

 

[Michael]

Nash is a superstar because of the style of offense he leads, a style that creates misguided personnel decisions, one that will never win a championship because of the type of personnel required to play in it. Yet a style that is just good enough in the regular season to create an effective illusion.


The problem is that by default, any team built around Nash’s superstar floor attributes can never win a championship.

The efforts should be made to transition fully out of the Nash system. The trade of Goran Dragic was a head-scratcher in that regard, among others. The problem is the Nash illusion is too real, too captivating to let go.

Maybe Phoenix fans are happy with a middling team so long as Nash is doing his thing. To be honest, I can actually respect that. But don’t be fooled about what it is or ever was."

http://www.statepress.com/2011/03/23/nash%E2%80%99s-illusion-continues-to-fool-suns-fans/

I love Steve and I think he will retire as a top 10 PG of all-time but this article is right. We will never win a championship playin like this every year and I think its best to trade Nash for picks and rebuild.

I disagree with the article being right. The last six seasons minus JJ's face landing in 2005, Amare's season-ending injury in 2006, two suspensions in 2007 and some bad luck in 2010, and we'd have won a few titles. Yes, I know, would have, could have, should have, but all this over-analyzing and blaming it on a system or player is bulldust, in my opinion.
"Nash illusion" - just one year ago, our master illusionists SWEPT the San Antonio Spurs, a team often hailed for its postseason mastery.

 

[leclerc]

Just ask Nash straight out. Do you want to be traded, or, who do you want to be traded to? Play with open cards. Enroll him in the ring of honour before he leaves town (or hangs it up). Same thing goes for Grant Hill.

I don't know what we could get for him. Probably have to be multiple teams involved.

 

[BC867]

If I was Nash, I would request a trade and latch on as a backup PG on a contending team...

Like Shaq with the Celtics. Of course, he's been out injured.

If Steve wouldn't have to play the most minutes on the team, he probably could stay healthy for a few more years. And make a contribution to an elite team.

No I would like to see him retire as a Suns.

For sentimental reasons, so would I. But not if it means being locked into his style as he further declines.

He'll eventually be in our Ring of Honor for sure, of course, and back in Victoria doing his own thing.

 

[Evil Ash]

Just ask Nash straight out. Do you want to be traded, or, who do you want to be traded to? Play with open cards. Enroll him in the ring of honour before he leaves town (or hangs it up). Same thing goes for Grant Hill.

I don't know what we could get for him. Probably have to be multiple teams involved.

Quite likely as the only real contender that needs a pg is Orlando and they don't have a first round pick. I'm not sure Nash can be a backup due to his back. If he rests too long it locks up

 

[Cheesewater]

Here is the most interesting part of that article:

"Nash's agent, Bill Duffy, has already begun saying that it's time to trade Nash."

Sounds like to me Nash is ready to move on from the Suns versus the Suns ready to move on from Nash.

Nothing an agent says is ever interesting because it is most assuredly 99% BS.

 

[SweetD]

Nash will still have value but your are looking to get back a late first round or second round tallent. I mean if Baron Davis can be traded and get some value Nash will still get something if he is traded. But I don't think Nash is asking to go nor are the Suns looking to move him. Unless it brings back a future fanchise player which I don't think would happen.

 

[sunsfan88]

Ok a lot of people have said trade him if we can get "decent" trade value in return. I think gettin a 1st rd pick, no matter how late it is, would be fair.

And the team we would get it from would be Dallas IMO. They would surely take Nash over Kidd. Steve doesn't choke in the playoffs like the rest of the Dallas team and would motivate Dirk more. Also no way Cuban passes up on a chance to get Nash back. As long as Babby or Sarver don't hesitate because Dallas is an inter conference team, I think we should do it or at least try it.