Should the Suns trade Steve Nash after this season?

[mojorizen7]

When the Suns do decide to rebuild,they won't try to rebuild Nashball 2.0 if they're smart. Having Nash on the roster whilst rebuilding anti-Nashball is anti-productive because a 38 year old PG who can't guard anybody is a hinderance when trying to rebuild anti-Nashball.

However if the Suns do decide to try to rebuild Nashball 2.0 then by all means....keep Nash on the roster till he's 50 yrs old,it makes no difference.

 

[slinslin]

I'd hope that we could get the #16 pick from the Knicks for Nash at least..

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm guessing most people don't think Nash helps us if he stays, but for some reason him leaving would accelerate the rebuilding process.. Him leaving isn't going to make the rebuild go any faster. Now, signing him to a 5-year extension probably would, but one more year? That's not going to affect us, except to allow any younger players we DO get (through the draft or trade/FA) to learn a bit from one of the best players in NBA history.

I have a hard time agreeing with this logic. Without Steve Nash, this is probably the worst team in the league, which means you have a much better shot to get a top 3 picks which is where Franchise Players are found. With Steve Nash, we're likely a 40-45 win team with no hopes of a shot at anything but an 8 seed, but more than likely, we're stuck with a late lotto pick, which we've shown zero ability to make good on. Thus, another year WITH him will likely push us one more year away from being bad enough to hopefully get a legit difference maker, whereas keeping him, keeps us exactly where we are now... which is no man's land.

I advocate being smart in trading him. We don't have to get a first round pick THIS year from anyone. Look for someone like Orlando, who's going to be desperate to appease Howard, see if you can deal Nash for a future first rounder out there and then, when Howard leaves (and he will leave), maybe we can get lucky and have that pick when they suck. there's more than one way to skin a cat here people.

 

[slinslin]

The problem with Nash is, we will never be able to re-build a balanced team, it is already proven fact that Nash can't play in a halfcourt oriented post-up offense that Porter ran through Shaq.

All players we bring in and develop become good players in the Nash system but they don't develop in the areas required to be a balanced good team.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The problem with Nash is, we will never be able to re-build a balanced team, it is already proven fact that Nash can't play in a halfcourt oriented post-up offense that Porter ran through Shaq.

All players we bring in and develop become good players in the Nash system but they don't develop in the areas required to be a balanced good team.

this is actually a good point as well. Chap, i believe you said it woudl be good for these young guys to learn the game with Nash but we've seen how utterly inept they are without him. I'd think you'd want to start the ball rolling on the learning curve, learning how to play without him, sooner rather than later also.

just seems to me that keeping Nash only delays the inevitable. We're going to crash and burn once he's gone. there's no doubt of that. but we're never going to fly again with him. so what's the point of one more year, living in the middle. did anyone enjoy this season?

 

[JS22]

this is actually a good point as well. Chap, i believe you said it woudl be good for these young guys to learn the game with Nash but we've seen how utterly inept they are without him. I'd think you'd want to start the ball rolling on the learning curve, learning how to play without him, sooner rather than later also.

just seems to me that keeping Nash only delays the inevitable. We're going to crash and burn once he's gone. there's no doubt of that. but we're never going to fly again with him. so what's the point of one more year, living in the middle. did anyone enjoy this season?

I think the Suns have one or two more runs in them with Nash IF they can find a legitimate wing player that doesn't need Nash to spoon-feed him. They're pretty much set otherwise. Frye and Gortat is the best 4/5 combo the Suns have had in years. (Frye has really surprised me lately.) Dudley fits the role of 6th man perfectly, Brooks - with a real offseason and training camp - is probably one of the best backups in the league.

If they can find that wing player I think they'll be fighting for home court advantage again next year. But who is available?

 

[slinslin]

How is Frye/Gortat better than Amare/Frye or even Diaw/Thomas etc...

Neither Frye nor Gortat has any post moves or can create on their own.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

How is Frye/Gortat better than Amare/Frye .

Exactly. Amare + anyone is better than Frye/Gortat any day of the week. To assert anything else is absurd.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I think the Suns have one or two more runs in them with Nash IF they can find a legitimate wing player that doesn't need Nash to spoon-feed him. They're pretty much set otherwise. Frye and Gortat is the best 4/5 combo the Suns have had in years. (Frye has really surprised me lately.) Dudley fits the role of 6th man perfectly, Brooks - with a real offseason and training camp - is probably one of the best backups in the league.

If they can find that wing player I think they'll be fighting for home court advantage again next year. But who is available?

Delusional. A - who and how regarding that wing player? B - what makes you think we'd be any better next year? I can't envision any scenario without a major overhaul where we wouldn't be scrapping to fight for a final playoff spot, just to get swept in the first round. WHOOPIE, sounds extremely exciting!!!

 

[Griffin]

I think the Suns have one or two more runs in them with Nash IF they can find a legitimate wing player that doesn't need Nash to spoon-feed him. They're pretty much set otherwise.

I would agree with this, but that wing player would have to be someone really special. All-star caliber player. Not necessarily an all-star already, but someone who can quickly develop into one. The Suns got Joe Johnson for two bench players. That's the kind of a trade that it will take, since all we really have to trade are bench players. In fact, it will take more than that, because JJ didn't contribute much his first two years with the Suns.

How is Frye/Gortat better than Amare/Frye or even Diaw/Thomas etc...

Neither Frye nor Gortat has any post moves or can create on their own.

Well, they are better defensively. Offensively Amare was a far superior player, but if the Suns can get a wing player who can create his own shot, then I think they can get away with a front line of Frye/Gortat. They'll still feed off Nash to get their points, but at least Nash won't have to create for someone on every single possession.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think the Suns have one or two more runs in them with Nash IF they can find a legitimate wing player that doesn't need Nash to spoon-feed him.

where in the world are they gonna find this guy and how are they going to get him?!

 

[Cheesewater]

I advocate being smart in trading him. We don't have to get a first round pick THIS year from anyone. Look for someone like Orlando, who's going to be desperate to appease Howard, see if you can deal Nash for a future first rounder out there and then, when Howard leaves (and he will leave), maybe we can get lucky and have that pick when they suck. there's more than one way to skin a cat here people.

I appreciate the optimism in this scenario, but... Among the things in play is the Suns front office willingness to piss off the fanbase by trading their favorite player away for a first round pick in, what, 2013, 2015? And how do figure that Howard wants to leave once Steve Nash is feeding him? At least you are right on the money when you say that the Suns would have to get lucky to have the pick when Orlando sucks...indicating that they'd suck worse than the Suns do now. That's too much gambling, I think.

 

[Mainstreet]

where in the world are they gonna find this guy and how are they going to get him?!

Although I would prefer to go in a younger direction, JRich's ability to hit the 3, post-up inside and as well as rebound really was what the doctor ordered for the Suns. If he is willing to come back to Phoenix as a FA the Suns should seriously consider it.

 

[Mainstreet]

I advocate being smart in trading him. We don't have to get a first round pick THIS year from anyone. Look for someone like Orlando, who's going to be desperate to appease Howard, see if you can deal Nash for a future first rounder out there and then, when Howard leaves (and he will leave), maybe we can get lucky and have that pick when they suck. there's more than one way to skin a cat here people.

Also the Suns have a history of doing fair trades with Orlando. The Suns got Gortat from Orlando and I believe the first round pick they used to select Amare in the Bo Outlaw trade.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I appreciate the optimism in this scenario, but... Among the things in play is the Suns front office willingness to piss off the fanbase by trading their favorite player away for a first round pick in, what, 2013, 2015? And how do figure that Howard wants to leave once Steve Nash is feeding him?

Nash is only gonna be effective for another year or two and it's no secret in the NBA that when Howard's contract is up (in two years), that dude's pretty much gone to LA or NY.

At least you are right on the money when you say that the Suns would have to get lucky to have the pick when Orlando sucks...indicating that they'd suck worse than the Suns do now. That's too much gambling, I think.

uh, don't kid yourself. Once Howard LeBron's the Magic they will be atrocious. ain't no gamble there. that's only two or three years away.

as to gambling... would you rather just continue to go along with what we're doing now? we stay with Nash there's no risk, but there's ZERO reward coming. at least in the gambling scenario, you're giving yourself a chance at starting the future and then being able to add to it once you have.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Although I would prefer to go in a younger direction, JRich's ability to hit the 3, post-up inside and as well as rebound really was what the doctor ordered for the Suns. If he is willing to come back to Phoenix as a FA the Suns should seriously consider it.

yay. then we could be a 6 seed instead of a 8-10.

no thanks. JRich's ability to post up won't overcome age and still having no one else but Nash to really get a shot for themselves or anyone else... and more and more, Nash is unable to do that for himself.

 

[elindholm]

The problem with Nash is, we will never be able to re-build a balanced team, it is already proven fact that Nash can't play in a halfcourt oriented post-up offense that Porter ran through Shaq.

That's not a "proven fact" at all. Porter failed because he was incompetent, period. Nash can feed the post fine, but it's not the best application of his skills. It made no sense to design an offense around a washed-up (albeit modestly resurgent) O'Neal rather than the still potent Nash.

All players we bring in and develop become good players in the Nash system but they don't develop in the areas required to be a balanced good team.

Do you honestly think that anyone on the current Suns roster would be developing a post game in Nash's absence? No one has those skills, and you don't just pick them up in a month or two. Gortat, Nash's most recent success story, already had a reputation as a pick-and-roll player. Nash didn't create an ability that wasn't already there; he just figured out how to take advantage of it.

 

[BC867]

Neither Frye nor Gortat has any post moves or can create on their own.

Gortat has already said he is going to work on post moves during the off-season. With the basketball IQ he has shown in this short time, I don't doubt that by the 2011-2012 camp, he'll be there. And continue to work on his 15 ft. jumper as well, which is not consistent yet.

We've seen Frye show post moves, too, along with the rest of his development as a complete player.

They could just be a pretty significant set of Twin Towers. Better than the Admiral and Duncan? Maybe not.

For your old timers, as good as The Big E and Wes Unseld? I think so.

 

[Cheesewater]

Nash is only gonna be effective for another year or two and it's no secret in the NBA that when Howard's contract is up (in two years), that dude's pretty much gone to LA or NY.

uh, don't kid yourself. Once Howard LeBron's the Magic they will be atrocious. ain't no gamble there. that's only two or three years away.

as to gambling... would you rather just continue to go along with what we're doing now? we stay with Nash there's no risk, but there's ZERO reward coming. at least in the gambling scenario, you're giving yourself a chance at starting the future and then being able to add to it once you have.

Yes. I'd rather have 2-time NBA MVP Steve Nash finish the last couple years of his career with the Suns and provide, among other things, a perennial chance to surprise everyone and go to the Conference Finals. Better that than to absolutely suck for the last couple years of Nash's career, praying against probability that the pick we got turns into a player that can take the Suns deep into the playoffs after a couple more years of tremendous sucking.

 

[BC867]

Yes. I'd rather have 2-time NBA MVP Steve Nash finish the last couple years of his career with the Suns and provide, among other things, a perennial chance to surprise everyone and go to the Conference Finals.

I'll respond with the underlying questions I asked about this approach in the New Lineup, Good or Bad thread.

With Steve, you have to ask yourself two questions:

1) Will he wear down after the All Star break again, with the most minutes per game on the team and another year older?

2) Is there a backup Point Guard who can come in and run his game for 16 minutes a game, every game? We haven't found one yet.

Unfortunately, I think the answers are:

1) Yes, it is probable that he will wear down as the season progresses.

2) No, as long as Steve is our Point Guard, he has to be on the court big minutes for it to work.

What do you think?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yes. I'd rather have 2-time NBA MVP Steve Nash finish the last couple years of his career with the Suns and provide, among other things, a perennial chance to surprise everyone and go to the Conference Finals.

he gives us chance to perenially surprise everyone and go to the conference finals? we're not even going to make the playoffs! and before you play the "injury" card or trade card... Memphis, Portland, Houston and the Hornets have ALL been derailed by the same thing yet are going to make the playoffs or at least finish strong... not to mention, every one of those teams is MUCH younger and set up for the future.

this isn't the 2005-7 seasons when the West literally had two great teams and then a bunch of trash where a rag-tag group like the Nash-Marion-Diaw team could surprise people. I really think it's incredibly unrealistic to think that some iteration of this Nash led team could in any universe (barring atomic bombs being dropped on LA, SA, Dallas, OKC, Denver, Memphis) could make any kind of run out of the first round, much less to the Conference Finals.

 

[Evil Ash]

I have a hard time agreeing with this logic. Without Steve Nash, this is probably the worst team in the league, which means you have a much better shot to get a top 3 picks which is where Franchise Players are found. With Steve Nash, we're likely a 40-45 win team with no hopes of a shot at anything but an 8 seed, but more than likely, we're stuck with a late lotto pick, which we've shown zero ability to make good on. Thus, another year WITH him will likely push us one more year away from being bad enough to hopefully get a legit difference maker, whereas keeping him, keeps us exactly where we are now... which is no man's land.

I advocate being smart in trading him. We don't have to get a first round pick THIS year from anyone. Look for someone like Orlando, who's going to be desperate to appease Howard, see if you can deal Nash for a future first rounder out there and then, when Howard leaves (and he will leave), maybe we can get lucky and have that pick when they suck. there's more than one way to skin a cat here people.

I don't think they can trade future 1st rounders until new CBA

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't think they can trade future 1st rounders until new CBA

i kinda assumed none of this would happen until the next CBA went down anyway. they're not gonna trade him before the draft.

 

[AfroSuns]

It is easy to be in another state or another country and say trade him for a late first rounder. I can tell you it will be a landslide in favor of retaining Steve if a poll was ever conducted.
Right now, Nash is the Suns!! not only to like 99.999% of the young fans. IF you are trading Steve, it better be something good or the franchise revenue will take an immense hit.

Is the FO ready to deal with the consequence of losing two players, in two season, who were face of the franchise?
In this economy? I highly doubt that. Maybe if Nash demands it, but it is highly unlikely they let him go for scraps like some are proposing.

 

[SirStefan32]

Gortat has already said he is going to work on post moves during the off-season. With the basketball IQ he has shown in this short time, I don't doubt that by the 2011-2012 camp, he'll be there. And continue to work on his 15 ft. jumper as well, which is not consistent yet.

We've seen Frye show post moves, too, along with the rest of his development as a complete player.

They could just be a pretty significant set of Twin Towers. Better than the Admiral and Duncan? Maybe not.

For your old timers, as good as The Big E and Wes Unseld? I think so.

You know, Frye has come a long way this year, but I am still convinced he is NOT the answer at PF. He has improved his rebounding, defense, and even added some moves in the low post, but I really don't believe he is the answer.