Should Whiz be fired?

[Zeno]

NO. Most of the problems are on the GM Personnel side of thing. If you bring in a new coach it takes YEARS just to get adapted to their system.

Whisenhunt took 2 seasons to get us to the Super Bowl, other coaches have done similar work with other teams...it doesn't always take "YEARS".

 

[Cheesebeef]

NO. Most of the problems are on the GM Personnel side of thing. If you bring in a new coach it takes YEARS just to get adapted to their system.

Jim Harbaugh, Jon Harbaugh, Mike McCarthy, Tony Schiano, Mike Smith, Sean Peyton, Bill Belichik (Super Bowl 2nd year and great ever since), Andy Reid (playoffs second year and in them for a decade after),Mike Tomlin, Tom Coughlin (playoffs 2nd year, contender ever since) just for starters are proof that the above isn't true at all.

A good coach can and most often WILL get his team into the playoffs in year 2 of his regime. A GREAT coach keeps them there for years.

but we do also need a better FO. the two aren't mutually exclusive ideas.

 

[Chopper0080]

Jim Harbaugh, Jon Harbaugh, Mike McCarthy, Tony Schiano, Mike Smith, Sean Peyton, Bill Belichik (Super Bowl 2nd year and great ever since), Andy Reid (playoffs second year and in them for a decade after),Mike Tomlin, Tom Coughlin (playoffs 2nd year, contender ever since) just for starters are proof that the above isn't true at all.

A good coach can and most often WILL get his team into the playoffs in year 2 of his regime. A GREAT coach keeps them there for years.

but we do also need a better FO. the two aren't mutually exclusive ideas.

John Gruden
John Fox

and soon to be

Andy Reid

All guys who were fired or will be fired for being unable to develop a replacement for their departed Pro Bowl QB. Not bad coaches, just ones who were unable to do one thing.

 

[Mulli]

He was already given the chance to makes changes to the offensive staff. It did not work.

Fired at end of season unless linderQbee succeeds.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

NO. Most of the problems are on the GM Personnel side of thing. If you bring in a new coach it takes YEARS just to get adapted to their system.

I blame Shane and then Peyton Manning!

 

[Dr. Jones]

So what your saying is that at 7-9, 7-9 and a gifted 6-4(in 3rd year) Carroll is a quality coach?? Is that your opinion??

1. I think Carroll is a quality coach. Yes. And he is also a major D-bag.
2. As it pertains to this conversation, he overhauled his team in year 1... and has evaluated talent much better than our current staff. I don't think this can be debated.

I would consider his first 3 years in Seattle a glaring success to this point. Meanwhile, back on the ranch..... we have endured 3 separate 6-game losing streaks.

 

[Stout]

It should be a progression when it comes to firing a coach. We gave him more input when he went to the playoffs two years in a row. Now after three sub par seasons, you force him to make staff changes on the offense. You bring in an experienced coordinator and let that coordinator bring in the guys he needs. That is the process you go through with an experienced head coach. He gets one more year.

Except that this is pointless. He'll just fill the positions with flunkies that suck, and won't challenge his authority. If you take away all of his power and tell him who to hire, and give them the power and autonomy to do what it takes, he loses all credibility as a HC and the team falls apart. The ONLY way he succeeds moving forward, barring another Kurt Warner miracle, is by convincing him to get rid of his flunky Grimm, to can the offensive staff, and to hire strong candidates and give them proper autonomy ON HIS OWN.

Since I doubt he'll do that, and since we have SIX GAME LOSING STREAKS THREE SEASONS IN A ROW, he should be gone at the end of the year. I cannot believe how many mulligans KW gets with the posters on this board. How many huge losing streaks do you have to go through to finally believe the coach needs to go? I think Shane would defend him harder than the Iraqi Information Minister did the regime in Iraq

 

[Dayman]

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/11/21/change-is-in-the-air-in-arizona

With the Cardinals now having experienced a six-game losing streak for the third time in the past three seasons, we hear both head coach Ken Whisenhunt and general manager Rod Graves can be considered to be on the hot seat.

“No question about it,” a team insider told PFW. “Two or three weeks ago, I probably would have felt differently. But although Whisenhunt still has a segment of supporters, the fan base is getting pretty disgruntled, and with the threat of non-sellouts looming, there are definitely going to be some changes coming.”

Barring a complete collapse the rest of the season, which almost certainly would lead to a full-scale housecleaning, the smart money is suggesting that both Whisenhunt and Graves will be granted one more reprieve, with the most likely shakeup occurring in Whisenhunt’s offensive coaching staff.

More at the link.

 

[Shane]

1. I think Carroll is a quality coach. Yes. And he is also a major D-bag.
2. As it pertains to this conversation, he overhauled his team in year 1... and has evaluated talent much better than our current staff. I don't think this can be debated.

I would consider his first 3 years in Seattle a glaring success to this point. Meanwhile, back on the ranch..... we have endured 3 separate 6-game losing streaks.

Wow you are easily pleased if you believe 7-9 and 7-9 = Quallity. You certainly shouldn't want to get rid of Whiz who just bettered that with 8-8 just last year.

 

[Duckjake]

Jim Harbaugh, Jon Harbaugh, Mike McCarthy, Tony Schiano, Mike Smith, Sean Peyton, Bill Belichik (Super Bowl 2nd year and great ever since), Andy Reid (playoffs second year and in them for a decade after),Mike Tomlin, Tom Coughlin (playoffs 2nd year, contender ever since) just for starters are proof that the above isn't true at all.

A good coach can and most often WILL get his team into the playoffs in year 2 of his regime. A GREAT coach keeps them there for years.

but we do also need a better FO. the two aren't mutually exclusive ideas.

Gene Stallings, Joe Bugel, Buddy Ryan, Vince Tobin, Dave McGinnis, and Denny Green are proof that it is for the Arizona Cardinals. One thing the Cards have never done is taken a coach into a 7th season. Might as well give it a shot with as many good young players (and Fitz) as we have now.

 

[Snakester]

whiz lost me when he put in Lindley. Its time for him to go. Let our DC take the reins.

 

[Cardiac]

Revisionist history drives me crazy. Warner was on the scrap heap and played like a washed up has been until Whiz & Haley helped revive his career.

Whiz hired Haley and gets zero credit for that.

This orginization has been the most dysfunctional in the history of the league. Talk about starting from ground zero. Yes Denny Green did bring in some talent but it's not the first time the Cards had talent and couldn't win.

Yet Whiz was simply just lucky???????

So now we are drafting far better than anytime in history. Yes the Oline was been ignored and the thought that they could find a franchise QB in the 5th & 6th rd of the draft was more than unfortunate.

During that stretch the team has built incredible talent on D and added some weapons at the skill positions. Maybe this is the negative to the BPA theory but using that stategy takes time.

The FA choices have for the most part been a failure and the one who made the call on those has been fired.

I'm with Duckjake and Buckybird, turning over HC's is not the formula for success. A HC who was good enough to take this team to the SB has proven himself to be good enough to allow for some down years.

3 seasons in a row with 6 game losing streaks raises more than 1 red flag but it doesn't tell the entire story nor should it be the battle cry for Whiz's dismissal.

Arguably the best org. in football is the Steelers and they have had 3 HC's in the past 50 years or so. Let's allow our FO and ownership to continue their improvement and goal to model the Steelers and get that part in completed before going with a carousel of HC's.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I say no, but I'm certainly in favor of canning grimm and bringing in a well-qualified offensive coordinator. I mean, let's spend some money and bring in a really good offensive mind, and also someone who can get the big uglies on the same page.

The Bidwills owe it to us.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

The problem for me is if the Cardinals fire Whiz who would they bring in for a coach?

When they hired Whiz the list of other coaches being considered was not impressive If I remember correctly.

The Cardinals should have a particular coach in mind and make a strong move to close the deal.

 

[Duckjake]

Revisionist history drives me crazy. Warner was on the scrap heap and played like a washed up has been until Whiz & Haley helped revive his career.

Then why do you post it?

64.3% completion rate at 8.2 yards per attempt in 2006. And combined with McCown to finish with the Cards as the #1 passing offense in the NFL in 2005 and completed 64.5% of his passes that season. 85 and 89 passer ratings.

What's funny is that many of us did believe Kurt was too old and too mediocre for the future. We'd kill for one of the 3 guys on the roster to put up those washed up has been numbers today wouldn't we?

 

[Rats]

Then why do you post it?

64.3% completion rate at 8.2 yards per attempt in 2006. And combined with McCown to finish with the Cards as the #1 passing offense in the NFL in 2005 and completed 64.5% of his passes that season. 85 and 89 passer ratings.

What's funny is that many of us did believe Kurt was too old and too mediocre for the future. We'd kill for one of the 3 guys on the roster to put up those washed up has been numbers today wouldn't we?

Duckjake, it is epic that many posters can't realize that Warner did this under Denny Green....Not under Whiz and some how Whiz reserected Warner. He was well on his way before Whiz/Haley showed up so I do not want to hear the Whiz crowd anymore on this. Warner was not on the scrap heap before Whiz showed up. In talking about Whiz, If wholesale changes are made on the offensive staff and Whiz gives up playcalling to a real Coordinator I can see keeping him unless we lose out the rest of the way. I think the D can win us a game or two so this may be the case. Not sure it is worth losing Horton to a headcoaching position however so there is that consideration.

 

[Shane]

Duckjake, it is epic that many posters can't realize that Warner did this under Denny Green....Not under Whiz and some how Whiz reserected Warner. He was well on his way before Whiz/Haley showed up so I do not want to hear the Whiz crowd anymore on this. Warner was not on the scrap heap before Whiz showed up. In talking about Whiz, If wholesale changes are made on the offensive staff and Whiz gives up playcalling to a real Coordinator I can see keeping him unless we lose out the rest of the way. I think the D can win us a game or two so this may be the case. Not sure it is worth losing Horton to a headcoaching position however so there is that consideration.

Whats even more sweet is now that you are all claiming that Warner did this under Green it doesnt support your argument that Warner was Whiz's savior. What was Greens record with Warner? While he was doing "this" under Denny Green?

Yet Whiz gets here and the team is immediately better? Why is that if Warner was the "same" as you say??

 

[desertdawg]

Can we change the top of the page? Larry can stay but the "Are You Ready?" thing is really old now. I've been ready for along time now, we should switch it to..."Are you still here?"

 

[Rats]

Look under DG they had a glimpse of what the offense could be but his Ego yanked it back and forth between Qb's his whole tenure. Once Whiz showed up, to his credit he saw how good the offensive pieces DG had assembled were and he allowed Haley to run with it.Then as time went on he benched Edge, got in a snit with Boldin and has failed to replace Super Bowl pieces on the offensive side of the ball that he is supposidly a guru at. Warner simply was getting it done before Whiz even with injury and was allowed to call his own plays once Haley/Whiz showed up. That got us to a championship

 

[Bodha]

I know the Cardinals have low standards, but HELL YES.


3 straight years of 6+ game slides. No other coach could survive that, and Whiz has done little to save himself.





OH yeah. Superbowl.Hes our HC forever now. I forgot.

 

[desertdawg]

I know the Cardinals have low standards, but HELL YES.


3 straight years of 6+ game slides. No other coach could survive that, and Whiz has done little to save himself.





OH yeah. Superbowl.Hes our HC forever now. I forgot.

Is that the roids talking?

 

[Dr. Jones]

Wow you are easily pleased if you believe 7-9 and 7-9 = Quallity. You certainly shouldn't want to get rid of Whiz who just bettered that with 8-8 just last year.

You are a master at ignoring half of a conversation to find the single point that you think can be attacked. please look at the entire post.

As it pertains to this post...... He has built a far superior staff in Seattle than what Whiz has done here. He has also built the team from scratch and controls personell decisions on draftday. His draft choices have worked out much better overall. For these reasons, he has to be considered a quality head coach. Sure he could win more, I am confident that the foundation he has built is much stronger than the one Whiz and Grimm have built.

 

[LarryStalling]

Well, not really. I know what you mean but he is supposed to be a Head Coach. I don't see how you take away the Warner years and take away the defense from the guy. But, I agree the offense has been repulsive and he's at least partially responsible for this mess we're in. If I knew just how responsible he was I'd be a lot more confident in calling for his head.

Steve

The reason I say this is because Miller supposedly had no background for being an OC and Whiz handpicked him. I would presume that he installed "Whiz's" system since he had no previous training. Whiz certainly would not have promoted him if he had no idea of what system was going to be run. Haley and Warner simply did their own thing after they proved that it would work and it was more than likly Warner's thing. However, with the success that Haley had in his initial year in KC you have to wonder if some of it was truly a Haley influence also.

 

[Cheesebeef]

However, with the success that Haley had in his initial year in KC you have to wonder if some of it was truly a Haley influence also.

this is why I think Wiz deserves SOME credit for that offense. We've seen Haley without Wiz (pretty much a failure), we saw Kurt without Wiz for five years, pretty much be a turnover machine and just not a guy who was going to make the clutch play and we've seen Wiz without both of them look pretty awful. Isn't it possible, just possible that all THREE of those guys had a hand in creating such a powerful offense?

 

[CtCardinals78]

Yes.