Should Whiz be fired?

[Duckjake]

Whats even more sweet is now that you are all claiming that Warner did this under Green it doesnt support your argument that Warner was Whiz's savior. What was Greens record with Warner? While he was doing "this" under Denny Green?

Yet Whiz gets here and the team is immediately better? Why is that if Warner was the "same" as you say??

Going 3-4 to start the season after going 4-3 to finish the previous season is getting immediately better?

 

[AzStevenCal]

The reason I say this is because Miller supposedly had no background for being an OC and Whiz handpicked him. I would presume that he installed "Whiz's" system since he had no previous training. Whiz certainly would not have promoted him if he had no idea of what system was going to be run. Haley and Warner simply did their own thing after they proved that it would work and it was more than likly Warner's thing. However, with the success that Haley had in his initial year in KC you have to wonder if some of it was truly a Haley influence also.

The thing is though, every coach has good QB's and bad QB's, good assistant coaches and not so good assistant coaches. You don't start going through all of their results and subtracting because this guy had a Horton and this guy had a Warner. It's all part of the deal. Whiz deserves a lot of the credit for the good things that happened and he deserves a lot of the blame for when it goes bad.

Steve

 

[kerouac9]

It should be a progression when it comes to firing a coach. We gave him more input when he went to the playoffs two years in a row. Now after three sub par seasons, you force him to make staff changes on the offense. You bring in an experienced coordinator and let that coordinator bring in the guys he needs. That is the process you go through with an experienced head coach. He gets one more year.

I've been on this for a while. I believed that the continuity that Whis would provide and the chance to give up some input on his coaching staff would make a difference.

But I'm with Snakester below (and I'm rarely with him). Skelton might've looked awful on 7 attempts against Atlanta, but Ryan Lindley gives us zero chance to win. The best thing that Whis could say about Lindley in the Monday press conference was that he called a timeout on his own when the clock was running down.

If Lindley is mediocre, then it probably saves Whis's job for another year, where he'll come in stripped of a ton of power (don't discount that he could refuse to fire Miller and Grimm and just resign). But if Lindley isn't an improvement on John Skelton (and he wasn't in the last three quarters against Atlanta), then Whis will have had plenty of opportunity to identify a solution to the quarterback problem, but decided instead to dicker around with Brian St. Pierre.

whiz lost me when he put in Lindley. Its time for him to go. Let our DC take the reins.

 

[Cardiac]

this is why I think Wiz deserves SOME credit for that offense. We've seen Haley without Wiz (pretty much a failure), we saw Kurt without Wiz for five years, pretty much be a turnover machine and just not a guy who was going to make the clutch play and we've seen Wiz without both of them look pretty awful. Isn't it possible, just possible that all THREE of those guys had a hand in creating such a powerful offense?

Thank you.

Kurt was not winning many games under DG and as you pointed out was a turnover machine.

Haley was the OC but didn't get play calling duty until his 2nd year.

As you stated, all 3 deserve credit.

 

[THESMEL]

Graves first - let the new GM decide.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Graves first - let the new GM decide.

Agreed.

Steve

 

[Rats]

Who wants to change there vote??? Or do you want to keep listening to the Apologist channel....KWIZ??? The $5.5 mil owed is the only thing that will keep him his job.

 

[desertdawg]

Who wants to change there vote??? Or do you want to keep listening to the Apologist channel....KWIZ??? The $5.5 mil owed is the only thing that will keep him his job.

Changed my station to GWIZ this morning before the game. Just thought about it lately and it's time. We can give him a shotgun handoff out the door so it isn't too awkward. Teams just blitz us to death in the fourth quarter, it only takes some teams 2 quarters to figure it out. The recipe is out there man, gonna get worse before it gets better. I bet Whiz is straight up promising Mikey that when Kolb (the QB he benched for Skelton (the QB he benched for Friendley)) gets back, all will be corrected.

Only one way that happens, Whiz simplifies his gameplan, runs mass protect two TE sets and sticks to running the ball the whole game and plan around his QBs talents (like dare I say Harbaugh (either one). So it aint gonna happen.

I'll be bumping GWIZ with you all week homie, they gonna love us.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Changed my station to GWIZ this morning before the game. Just thought about it lately and it's time. We can give him a shotgun handoff out the door so it isn't too awkward. Teams just blitz us to death in the fourth quarter, it only takes some teams 2 quarters to figure it out. The recipe is out there man, gonna get worse before it gets better. I bet Whiz is straight up promising Mikey that when Kolb (the QB he benched for Skelton (the QB he benched for Friendley)) gets back, all will be corrected.

Only one way that happens, Whiz simplifies his gameplan, runs mass protect two TE sets and sticks to running the ball the whole game and plan around his QBs talents (like dare I say Harbaugh (either one). So it aint gonna happen.

I'll be bumping GWIZ with you all week homie, they gonna love us.

GWIZ... ha.

 

[clif]

I honestly can't understand why he isn't fired yet tonight?

 

[Rats]

I think only because M. Bidwill has a little more at stake than the old man did to Coryell($5.5 mil) and didn't change the Locks in the 4th Quarter.....

 

[D-Dogg]

Should, yes. Will? No.

 

[D-Dogg]

We can give him a shotgun handoff out the door so it isn't too awkward.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

If a real GM decides it then yes.

 

[WildBB]

Wasn't in the for sure ranks till today.

Horton needs to be the choice moving forward.'

Cut ties with the whole offensive (literally) side.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Wasn't in the for sure ranks till today.

Horton needs to be the choice moving forward.'

Cut ties with the whole offensive (literally) side.

I really like what Horton's done, but to be honest, if this team is EVER going to REALLY move, forward, the entire staff is gonzo, because moving forward means actually bringing in a LEGIT GM and that GM is going to bring in a new head coach and that Head Coach is going to bring in his own DC.

or do we want to do exactly what we did last time, where for some ridiculous reason, the team basically forced Clancy Pendergast on Wiz? Now, I know Horton is LIGHT YEARS better than Clancy and I'm not making a comparison. I just know that in the NFL, when you have as much dysfunction as this team does, you need to completely clean house and whoever's gonna be put in charge up top is going to want his guys in here.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Anyone notice the oleander blight spreading through Phoenix? It came from So Cal. Everyone here is doing what everyone in So Cal did 10 years ago. Which is cut off the dead branches because the half-dead oleander looks so crappy. But that's only cosmetic. The plant is going to die because there's a systemic problem with the plant itself.

And that's the problem with "only" firing Whiz. There's major problems in the organization and how things are done. He's the dead branch you trim away to make the plant look nice and to make everyone think you're on top of things and you aren't letting your shrubs look horrible and lower property values.

But the plant is going to die no matter what you do and unless you start planning on what you're going to replace it with (which is a good healthy drought tolerant plant that came from a good nursery) you've got nothing but an empty space and a hole in the ground.

Which is my way of saying someone needs to make the Bidwills realize you can't just trim. This organization needs someone to go in and re-design from scratch. It will look real ugly for a while but if it's done right the results will be worth the work and the cost. (And the wait while it matures.)

 

[gmabel830]

I really like what Horton's done, but to be honest, if this team is EVER going to REALLY move, forward, the entire staff is gonzo, because moving forward means actually bringing in a LEGIT GM and that GM is going to bring in a new head coach and that Head Coach is going to bring in his own DC.

or do we want to do exactly what we did last time, where for some ridiculous reason, the team basically forced Clancy Pendergast on Wiz? Now, I know Horton is LIGHT YEARS better than Clancy and I'm not making a comparison. I just know that in the NFL, when you have as much dysfunction as this team does, you need to completely clean house and whoever's gonna be put in charge up top is going to want his guys in here.

I think so many people take this for granted.. "Fire Whiz!! But keep Horton!!" If you are going to bring in a new head coach, you need to give him the authority to hire his own staff. Maybe they'll want to keep Horton, but most coaches stick with what they are comfortable with in terms of scheme, and how many programs (college/pro) run the Labeau defense that the Cards run? If the Cards aren't willing to make Horton the top guy (and I know a lot of people would like them to do that), then I think you have to live with the fact that Horton probably won't be the DC here anymore.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think so many people take this for granted.. "Fire Whiz!! But keep Horton!!" If you are going to bring in a new head coach, you need to give him the authority to hire his own staff. Maybe they'll want to keep Horton, but most coaches stick with what they are comfortable with in terms of scheme, and how many programs (college/pro) run the Labeau defense that the Cards run? If the Cards aren't willing to make Horton the top guy (and I know a lot of people would like them to do that), then I think you have to live with the fact that Horton probably won't be the DC here anymore.

yup.

 

[THESMEL]

Weve fallen and can't get up

 

[Fitz Rulz]

Think we need a fresh rebuild
the system is not working
I'd rather be patient with anew system (that may not work though) but feel something new is done
Whiz could be a good coach and I really wish him success in his career but let's be honest, he is done here.

 

[gmabel830]

Now all that being said re: new coach/Horton, there is one guy out there who may be a good fit if you are ready to make a move at HC but really want to keep Horton as DC if he doesn't get another job -- Bruce Arians. Guy coached with Horton for many years in Pittsburgh, is familiar with the defense, and has done excellent with the Colts this year (having Andrew Luck hasn't hurt). I'm sure the board would be thrilled with the Pittsburgh connections too!!

 

[AZ Native]

Nope. He does need to let Miller and Grimm go and turn over the offense to a good offensive coordinator. He is good at what he does, but needs to find a good OC and OL coach and let them do their thing.

 

[Buckybird]

I really like what Horton's done, but to be honest, if this team is EVER going to REALLY move, forward, the entire staff is gonzo, because moving forward means actually bringing in a LEGIT GM and that GM is going to bring in a new head coach and that Head Coach is going to bring in his own DC.

or do we want to do exactly what we did last time, where for some ridiculous reason, the team basically forced Clancy Pendergast on Wiz? Now, I know Horton is LIGHT YEARS better than Clancy and I'm not making a comparison. I just know that in the NFL, when you have as much dysfunction as this team does, you need to completely clean house and whoever's gonna be put in charge up top is going to want his guys in here.

I think so many people take this for granted.. "Fire Whiz!! But keep Horton!!" If you are going to bring in a new head coach, you need to give him the authority to hire his own staff. Maybe they'll want to keep Horton, but most coaches stick with what they are comfortable with in terms of scheme, and how many programs (college/pro) run the Labeau defense that the Cards run? If the Cards aren't willing to make Horton the top guy (and I know a lot of people would like them to do that), then I think you have to live with the fact that Horton probably won't be the DC here anymore.

Yep & well said. It could take years & years to ever get this defense back to where it's been the last 19'games, production wise

 

[Dr. Jones]

I think so many people take this for granted.. "Fire Whiz!! But keep Horton!!" If you are going to bring in a new head coach, you need to give him the authority to hire his own staff. Maybe they'll want to keep Horton, but most coaches stick with what they are comfortable with in terms of scheme, and how many programs (college/pro) run the Labeau defense that the Cards run? If the Cards aren't willing to make Horton the top guy (and I know a lot of people would like them to do that), then I think you have to live with the fact that Horton probably won't be the DC here anymore.

Agreed..... Fire Graves now and promote Keim. Let Keim fire Whiz and promote Horton to the interim coach for the rest of the season and see what happens. If Horton looks like a keeper. You re-sign him.

Keim will be in charge of this years draft and will be on a short leash through next season.