Simmons traded to Giants for a 7th

[Goldfield]

Not what I was referencing, and not a defense of Keim. Simply put, the whole board would be in an uproar over some of these moves were the name of the GM different. Lots of benefit of the doubt being given to Monti on some bumbling.

Let's see if Monti can follow up with the build part of this tear down/rebuild.

This a fair. But Kiem got the benefit of the doubt until he wasn’t good enough.

 

[MadCardDisease]

It is business and it is how the game is played. No coach is beholden to anything they say right now or who is "#2". If you name Dobbs #3 QB when most teams only keep 2 on their 53 man roster, no one is going to offer you anything and you have to cut him or keep three QBs.

Most teams are keeping 3 QBs this year with the new Emergency QB rule that was added for 2023.

 

[TheCardFan]

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[RON_IN_OC]

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Why didn't Simmons tell Gannon that he liked to rush the passer? lol

 

[Krangodnzr]

This a fair. But Kiem got the benefit of the doubt until he wasn’t good enough.

*Keim

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

Why didn't Simmons tell Gannon that he liked to rush the passer? lol

Gannon's response was probably:

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[BritCard]

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They are dreaming.

That rush vs the Jets was on 3rd and 12. Sure, let him pin his ears back on rare 3rd and longs.

But on 2nd and 4? You'd run at him all day. He's weak. He has no hands or pash rush moves.

He'd get murdered at EDGE on 90% of downs.

 

[Chopper0080]

They are dreaming.

That rush vs the Jets was on 3rd and 12. Sure, let him pin his ears back on rare 3rd and longs.

But on 2nd and 4? You'd run at him all day. He's weak. He has no hands or pash rush moves.

He'd get murdered at EDGE on 90% of downs.

Again, a stand up rush player with athleticism on 3rd and long situations is a valuable role. The Cardinals used Gardeck in a similar role and it got him a contract extension.

 

[BritCard]

Again, a stand up rush player with athleticism on 3rd and long situations is a valuable role. The Cardinals used Gardeck in a similar role and it got him a contract extension.

Sure, if Simmons was actually any good at it and he was a 5th round pick and not the 8th overall pick.

Certainly only worth a 7th in a trade when we already have at least 2 of those guys on the roster who are better at it.

 

[Chopper0080]

Sure, if Simmons was actually any good at it and he was a 5th round pick and not the 8th overall pick.

Certainly only worth a 7th in a trade when we already have at least 2 of those guys on the roster who are better at it.

If you are a new regime, you don't really care about where a player was drafted and more about what they can do to help the team. I think both Gannon and Monti have said that.

There have been several posts asking what Simmons could do...and it looks like the Giants have already found a way to make him look like a player who can contribute vs a player who is liability (at least for 1 pre-season game). Do you think the Giants care if Simmons gets 7 sacks and 12 pressures on 10% (94) defensive snaps like Gardeck did in 2020? And if they can get that, it is incredible value for a 7th round pick.

 

[QuebecCard]

If you are a new regime, you don't really care about where a player was drafted and more about what they can do to help the team. I think both Gannon and Monti have said that.

There have been several posts asking what Simmons could do...and it looks like the Giants have already found a way to make him look like a player who can contribute vs a player who is liability (at least for 1 pre-season game). Do you think the Giants care if Simmons gets 7 sacks and 12 pressures on 10% (94) defensive snaps like Gardeck did in 2020? And if they can get that, it is incredible value for a 7th round pick.

At this point, Simmons is on track to becoming the second coming of Mike Mamula. IMO.

 

[Chopper0080]

At this point, Simmons is on track to becoming the second coming of Mike Mamula. IMO.

He didn't live up to his draft position for sure. I don't believe anyone is arguing that. However, Monti and Gannon are going to have unnecessary egg on their face if they traded Simmons to the Giants and he has more sacks than any Cardinals player being used in a situational pass rusher role.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Absolutely. My point is, all teams have a guy that becomes that type of acquisition for another team. Simmons was never going to be anything here, be it due to coaching/management malfeasance, or simply the player not being good enough.

So, Im not faulting the Cardinals for losing him, thats part of the process. I fault them for drafting him in the first place. And I dont fault them for not going after that type of player. They did, and do, a la my example of LJ Collier.

Yes, Id like to see more of that, but that doesnt mean we wont be jettisoning our version of that guy as well.

Yeah, you seem to think Collier is enough. I think we need more of those guys. I also think we didn't do a good job of playing to Simmons strengths. He was never going to be effective in the secondary, it was a complete waste of time from the start.

 

[BritCard]

If you are a new regime, you don't really care about where a player was drafted and more about what they can do to help the team. I think both Gannon and Monti have said that.

There have been several posts asking what Simmons could do...and it looks like the Giants have already found a way to make him look like a player who can contribute vs a player who is liability (at least for 1 pre-season game). Do you think the Giants care if Simmons gets 7 sacks and 12 pressures on 10% (94) defensive snaps like Gardeck did in 2020? And if they can get that, it is incredible value for a 7th round pick.

Cards can only trade him for what he is, not what Giants might do with him. And what he was for us was a bad ILB who couldn't move to S and is terrible in coverage.

For us he wasn't worth keeping because Sanders and Gardeck can do what Simmons might do better. Of that I'm confident.

If the Giants can do something unique with him to squeeze some extra juice out of a 7th round pick then good for them. That doesn't make it a bad trade.

Every trade made is made on that principle.

 

[Chopper0080]

Cards can only trade him for what he is, not what Giants might do with him. And what he was for us was a bad ILB who couldn't move to S and is terrible in coverage.

For us he wasn't worth keeping because Sanders and Gardeck can do what Simmons might do better. Of that I'm confident.

If the Giants can do something unique with him to squeeze some extra juice out of a 7th round pick then good for them. That doesn't make it a bad trade.

Every trade made is made on that principle.

I disagree a bit. If another team (and potentially a playoff one) can make a former top 10 pick into a contributing player, and the team that let him go is one of the worst in the NFL, it is a bad look.

As for Gardeck and Sanders being better...Simmons had 4 sacks last year which was the same as Gardeck and Sanders combined. Being with a better DC and in a situational pass rush role will likely help him eclipse that.

 

[BritCard]

I disagree a bit. If another team (and potentially a playoff one) can make a former top 10 pick into a contributing player, and the team that let him go is one of the worst in the NFL, it is a bad look.

As for Gardeck and Sanders being better...Simmons had 4 sacks last year which was the same as Gardeck and Sanders combined. Being with a better DC and in a situational pass rush role will likely help him eclipse that.

Simmons contributed here, he's just insanely unreliable. I expect him to be no different at the Giants.

I don't get the beef. Is the idea supposed to be that Monti just called the Giants and said "Hey, do you want Simmons for a 7th?".

I'm fairly confident the team would have made multiple calls, if not called everyone, and that the best offer they got they took. Why wouldn't they?

 

[Chopper0080]

Simmons contributed here, he's just insanely unreliable. I expect him to be no different at the Giants.

I don't get the beef. Is the idea supposed to be that Monti just called the Giants and said "Hey, do you want Simmons for a 7th?".

I'm fairly confident the team would have made multiple calls, if not called everyone, and that the best offer they got they took. Why wouldn't they?

I think this is likely close to the truth but there is probably not any way we will know unless a report comes out similar to the Dobbs one.

 

[blindseyed]

Being a Cards fan and knowing this team I have that queasy feeling that he'll be a difference maker on the Giants lol

 

[QuebecCard]

Yeah, you seem to think Collier is enough. I think we need more of those guys. I also think we didn't do a good job of playing to Simmons strengths. He was never going to be effective in the secondary, it was a complete waste of time from the start.

Which are and how?

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Yeah, you seem to think Collier is enough. I think we need more of those guys. I also think we didn't do a good job of playing to Simmons strengths. He was never going to be effective in the secondary, it was a complete waste of time from the start.

Gannon to Simmons: Where would you like to play?
Simmons: Put me at safety, coach...I got you.

Simmons gets to New York...
Daboll to Simmons: Where would you like to play?
Simmons: Outside on the edge, coach...Let me get after the QB...I got you.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Which are and how?

This has been explained multiple times - he was our most successful pass rusher last year, and testing him out as a situational pass rusher seems to be more useful in an experimental season than whatever we get for a 7th round pick.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

This has been explained multiple times - he was our most successful pass rusher last year, and testing him out as a situational pass rusher seems to be more useful in an experimental season than whatever we get for a 7th round pick.

Simmons and his 4 sacks and 4 total QB hits were the most successful on the Cardinals in 2022?

Who had 12.5 sacks and 25 QB hits?

 

[BritCard]

I think this is likely close to the truth but there is probably not any way we will know unless a report comes out similar to the Dobbs one.

Why? Why would anyone do that or think they did that? Surely that's just your completely negative opinion of the Org clouding your judgement?

There's no logic in doing that. Monti does not seem like an emotional guy. If he decided that Simmons would done any sensible person would shop for the best deal.

Even you or I would do that. So why wouldn't an experienced NFL exec?

 

[QuebecCard]

This has been explained multiple times - he was our most successful pass rusher last year, and testing him out as a situational pass rusher seems to be more useful in an experimental season than whatever we get for a 7th round pick.

We have four young outside pass rushers to 'experience' with in 2023.

P.S. Define 'most successful' pass rusher because it sure isn't on the numbers.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

We have four young outside pass rushers to 'experience' with in 2023.

P.S. Define 'most successful' pass rusher because it sure isn't on the numbers.

Pass rush win rate. Again - this has been mentioned multiple times.