Smeltdown: Leinart cut by Texans

DemsMyBoys

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Personally I think he's out of football. He's got the coins to buy a place with a dock on Lido Isle where he can paddle across the bay for a coffee every morning and live the life.

Other than that, I'm back on Peyton watch. :)
 

JAB

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Think of that draft today. It was not a good one for many teams in the Top 10.

Mario Williams was good, but may be leaving Houston soon.

Reggie Bush, Cutler, Vince Young, and Leinart are all gone from the teams that drafted them. Ugh. That draft was touted as talent-heavy at the top and look how that turned out.

I don't know if I would throw Cutler into that situation I think he's a decent quarterback and the Denver organization obviously made a huge mistake in hiring McDaniels to be their head coach.
 

crisper57

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I don't know if I would throw Cutler into that situation I think he's a decent quarterback and the Denver organization obviously made a huge mistake in hiring McDaniels to be their head coach.

It was still a bad situation for the team that drafted him. Cutler forced his way out of town.
 

JAB

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It was still a bad situation for the team that drafted him. Cutler forced his way out of town.

I was assuming you meant the players weren't any good not that they ended up not being a good fit for each team. Denver brought their situation upon themselves IMO, so I did not see Cutler falling into the same category as say Vince Young. Cutler played well in Denver IMO the couch was the bad choice not cutler.
 
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Linderbee

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There absolutely is evidence he didn't know the play book. Whiz outright stated that he was upset that he was running plays with WRs in the wrong position. A QB that lets your WRs line up wrong and then runs the play clearly doesn't know the play like he should. He is the field general and needs to where everyone needs to be. Yet Derek Anderson comes in and you see him immediately fixing where WRs were lining up and putting them in position when they lined up wrong. Granted the WRs need to take some responsibility. But in the end it's the QB that needs to recognize it on the field.
There was ONE instance of ML doing that, and ONE instance of DA doing that...you're exaggerating at best.

And as much as Whiz hated ML, who's to say it wasn't set up that way to make DA look good?
 

Shane

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There was ONE instance of ML doing that, and ONE instance of DA doing that...you're exaggerating at best.

And as much as Whiz hated ML, who's to say it wasn't set up that way to make DA look good?

Not exaggerating. And it was multiple. It was debated on this board ad nauseous. All the Leinart backers wanted to blame whiz for Leinart screwing up the playbook and running plays with WRs out of position. Lmao
 

Linderbee

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Not exaggerating. And it was multiple. It was debated on this board ad nauseous. All the Leinart backers wanted to blame whiz for Leinart screwing up the playbook and running plays with WRs out of position. Lmao
Yeah, the ONE time was discussed multiple times ad nauseum.
 

CardsFan88

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Sucks for him, but Leinart is yesterdays news (unless you're SMEL, in which case the #7 shrine still exists in his kitchen).

In all seriousness, I'm wondering if this is the end of the road for him. I do see a team bringing him in as the #3 option or at least a tryout in preseason, but he may want to start looking into a real estate license soon.

Given the fraudulent nature of our mortgage market (anything inside MERS is legally destroyed contractually), and the fact it is still in decline (and will be for a very long time...and accelerate downwards), something tells me he won't be much more successful in that job as he was in the NFL.

I feel his only shot now is in Seattle. But if they wanted him they already had a shot at signing with them. Still possible. But I doubt anyone other than Seattle would even attempt to bite. He's looking for a camp invite imo.

Hopefully he finds happiness, I'm just damn sure it won't be in the NFL or real estate.

My gut on ML said he wasn't going to be good, but I suppressed that and was happy on draft night. But my initial viewpoint of him was spot on, he just wasn't NFL capable. Inadequate arm, head, drive, and playing on the college equivalent of the 72 dolphins hid many of those flaws. The arm part and floaters were obvious. The rest again were hiddne.

Even on that gif earlier in the thread, his deep pass was still a floater. It's also not a great representation because he threw it so early...thus the pass looked a lot longer than it really was. Plus as noted 47-7, that being the 7, doesn't mean you are exactly facing a defense that is completely focused.

But overall thesmell, people need to understand that you don't use bogus numbers in a sophistry rating system that means crap. Because such rating systems are CRAP. Don't waste your time, and somehow also fool yourself into believing such a bunk, complete bs metric is worth a grain a salt. You are learning nothing, you are teaching nothing. You are only confusing yourself and others. So your rating system is actually a step backwards, rather than forwards in knowledge.

Such ratings are mostly useless and are always wrong...the question is...how wrong. They are though ALWAYS WRONG. Even the 'best' ones, are ALWAYS wrong. Since people believe in such dogma like this is Afghan and their number system is the Holy Quran, I'll let them in on a little secret. Arranging numbers in a certain way doesn't tell you anything. Statistics are not science. There is no science of statistical discovery that will give you an edge on evaluating talent. That is FANTASY.

They are a waste of time. Plus you are telling the world (those at least that understand you are full of crap) that you believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus...because your and everyone else's 'metric' system is as real as the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. I laugh at people promoting these things as fools too foolish to know they're fools. It's really just sad.

People wonder how our society can be fooled into doing so much that goes against our interests. This is one of the answers. People's strong dogmatic belief that the way they set up their numbers means something. It doesn't. You're just lying to yourself and everyone else. Even if you believe it, what these idiots push, isn't real. Who do you blame when a number is wrong? There is no accountability, just lets re-write the model or weighting. Please. It's still bs no matter how you arrange it. If I want to insert bs into my decision I'll do it the easy way and just flip a coin.

I don't care if anyone has ML as a 90 or 97 or whatever, because your whole approach of grading them is nothing more than complete bs. What I do know is that the people that pushed this bs on all aspects of society got rich doing it. Now we're left to hold the bag. Bad RL consequences, and in this case, idiocy in numbers that tries to show ML is something he isn't. In my best Idiocracy voice....'Statistics...it's got what idiots crave'

Here's the truth, if ML can't get onto a field, above all else, that means he's a 0, because a guy who can't get on the field, or stay on it, is absolutely worthless as a football player. There is no reason to have a 'football' model that caters to the, 'he's a good QB, but injuries are getting in the way'....What? You're only a football player when you are on the field. You can't say someone is a great QB, and everyone is wrong because he is injured too much to prove it. If your not on the field you are not a football player, you're a bystander.

Fake (all of them) statistical models and ranking systems and other like bs metrics just waste people's time. They aren't real. But they WILL REALLY LEAD YOU to the wrong conclusion. Because you trusted a number in a vacuum tube to be the same in the real life working universe which is anything but a vacuum. Might as well use a magic 8 ball. Or if someone smoked/snorted an eight ball you'd might understand why they came to such a crazy conclusion...the drugs.

We all need to be better than believe some fake made up crap means something. Gov't Data is bs. Market Metrics is bs. QB Rating is useless. Even looking at plain vanilla sports statistics doesn't always make a compelling case, and has error built into it. What's worse is people actually spend money on classes in college, or hear a speech in the real world that tries to convince people that the snake oil they are selling them will give them the info they need to make 'better decisions'. It won't. The world is failing, because more and more, people are believing and entrusting all sorts of life to the same kind of bullcrap that thesmell rationalized that ML was an elite QB...just in equally..but different..crazy ways. While thesmell represents something here that is pretty unique, in today's screwed up world, there is a little 'thesmell' in just about everyone and in just about every decision that is made. So while we are all focused on thesmell, lets not forget that the world officially believes in thesmell's methodology, and that is what should scare us the most.

Folks we're dealing with a 'belief system' here. These people believe in nonsense. They believe their nonsense means something. Then they make their decisions based on this bs, and think it means something. That it is something true. It isn't.

Wake up to the bs sophistry thesmell is an example of. It's everywhere, and it is effecting you. Thesmel is just an example of how easily people can be lied to and be corrupted into spewing complete nonsense and believing it to be valid. There isn't always two sides to things, and if you give someone enough time, they'll make bs like this up and turn them into useful idiots. Because every time people like thesmel make a decision based on someone, and they believe it, thesmell is indoctrinating people into the 'believe that numbers mean something' racket. The last couple of decades there has been a 'syngergy' going on where everywhere and everything has to be broken down into numbers which can then be judged to mean something, and in the process, everything real to actually judge things on, has been forgotten.

So I'll end this soapbox rant with the voice of Momma Boucher, 'statistics are the devil'. Don't ever rely on them or you are using the equivalent of dental floss for bungee jumping. Hopefully you'll find another way to express your viewpoints of how good someone is, and find someone to like that actually plays. Ditch the incorrect rating system. At least you'd be acting smarter than lots of idiots out there.

If you don't like the way thesmell judges things, watch out, because according to everyone, his idiot rationale is the wave of the future (and the present). But something tells me, eventually we'll figure it out and stamp out the nonsense. But really thesmell is no more guilty than just about everyone else. He's just guilty of believing it more than others.
 
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Catfish

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Foul stench? Frequently? What in the world are you talking about? ASFN is the best sports internet message board around. Period. Go read some others and you'll see what I mean.

There is more informed analysis here about the Cardinals than on the National shows!

But it's like everything else, out of 100 posters 2 will meltdown and suddenly its "the entire board has gotten so bad I don't want to come here anymore". Or "I'm leaving for a week because I don't want to see the entire board meltdown when X happens." :bang:

Merely commenting to the threads that go to the dump like this one did as soon as Shane and his buddies hijack the thread and denegrate it to a badmouth contest instead of a discussion of the topic.

JAB had clearly pointed out that Leinart had been dumped after outperforming the Scud (Anderson) in nearly every category, but Anderson was retained by Whiz dispite this. THen JAG pointed out that Whiz wanted Bulger after already hiring DA, and Bidwill turned him down. After DA failed, we got a dose of Moxie, Bartel, and the Skeletor. The next year Whiz scuttles the Scud, claiming that we now need Kolb. Bidwill gets Kolb, who plays pretty much bust, and the Skeletor pretty much wins our huddle. The defense saves the season, and now Whiz says we need Manning. Bidwill is amenable to that, but if we don't get him, (and it is clear that an AFC team is clearly Manning's preference), one can only wonder if Whiz is ready to jettison Kolb this year, and claim yet another QB on the market that will save us. That was pretty much the discussion being talked about when Shane interjected about the shower-----once again hijacking a thread to pad his one line posts about nothing. THat is the stench that I was talking about. That is also why JAB's insight was refreshing, because it was on topic and was insightful and made a clear point. This seems to happen almost constantly on this board.
 
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THESMEL

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yes

Both being injured they both sucked. I feel for the fellows under the helmets. I remember Eli and Peyton embracing Matty as the adopted son in National commercials, as Cardinal BEFORE KEN WHISENHUNT!

for the record Matt was 9-10 in his houston debut before his 3rd season ending shoulder surgery. considering he had not seen a regular game since the Titans, where He earned a late drive and our defense gave back a 99 yard TD against a hot team! Now in the post season He performed an excellent 2 minute drill against the Saints- We missed the field goal, Matty did well with Kurt getting knocked out of his last game.

I don't know I have to spit back old information that irks people to tell my viewpoint, 2 tds in the 1st 1/4 of his first 2 starts? 405 yard rookie record game, many 100+ QB games as a rookie! We dumped Denny for a power running offense! and poof!

Rookie HC Whisenhunt started Matty, added Kurt's "package" without a 3rd QB? they both got killed and we got Tim H and Tim R off their couch. Kurt fought through the Arm injury and Whis adapted the offense to " I would throw it every time if they let me" (Kurt's words not mine) and Kurt won the job and took us to the SB....

Now we were 9-7 and all but wrapped it up early in the weakest division in the history of earth. Edge made the remark that He is not an offensive lineman- Whiz Benched Edge and started THT and totally and utterly collapsed until -We reinserted Edge an established a run game and Play action leading to - Fitz's domination, while Q cried at Haley!

Sorry buckos but The oline does not give that protection, Kurt dossn't get that time and Fitz doesn't catch( well they were pretty impossible catches anyhow, that boy is the snitch) - IF IF IF Edge does not get productive and the defenses do not have to adjust to the run game - that playoff run doesn't happen-

it looks more like the Loss we had in the SB and other losses that year, We started well in the SB than Edge got called on a personal foul chop block, that was BS, The Lineman was not engaged.

Fast forward to 2009 GB playoff and the 3 score lead - accomplished by Beanie (not THT) running the ball against the NFL's number 1 defense, and play action. GB defense adjusted, and it was a shoot out for the ages(three and outs with a lead is non professional- that many in a year, is a crime)

To the Saints 70TD opening play THT running in his proper role, Lets throw it every down! WR fumble, int, 10 freaking run carries total -most of Beanies after the ARIZONA CARDINALS GAVE UP with 6 minutes left in the 3rd 1/4 of a divisional playoff game. That is with HC Whisenhunt calling the plays! He blamed the players , as usual

No Peyton Manning would not dream of putting his OLINE, ST, DEFENSE, RB's in position to fail like that. Peyton relied on the run game to win his ony SB win just like John Elway. they both failed passing, humbled they turned to balance to win it all. Kurt won by a Mike Jones tackle at the 1/2 yard line, His prolific SB pass records, were 1/2 a yard away from being 0-3!


All that to say this: Matt Leinart was being a strong leader, When Whiz cut him. Edge tried to lead the same way When Whiz benched him, Q too
Whiz's open door policy does not work anybetter than his revolving door policy. I would hold my tounge again if I thought he had changed bck to the coach we hired.

WHIZ is addicted to the pass and allergic to the run , Kolb aint a strong enough leader either, and Peyton aint coming with 4 surgeries to his neck in a year

AND NOT ONE STARTING TACKLE!

pass additive Intervention is needed but Graves is sniffing the same kool aid. somebody needs to tackle em both, maybe Michael Bidwill too! somebody tackle somebody for Cards Sake.








one of us has reading comprehension issues.... from what I read....Smelly said leinart is better than an injured Manning
 
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Shane

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Merely commenting to the threads that go to the dump like this one did as soon as Shane and his buddies hijack the thread and denegrate it to a badmouth contest instead of a discussion of the topic.

JAB had clearly pointed out that Leinart had been dumped after outperforming the Scud (Anderson) in nearly every category, but Anderson was retained by Whiz dispite this. THen JAG pointed out that Whiz wanted Bulger after already hiring DA, and Bidwill turned him down. After DA failed, we got a dose of Moxie, Bartel, and the Skeletor. The next year Whiz scuttles the Scud, claiming that we now need Kolb. Bidwill gets Kolb, who plays pretty much bust, and the Skeletor pretty much wins our huddle. The defense saves the season, and now Whiz says we need Manning. Bidwill is amenable to that, but if we don't get him, (and it is clear that an AFC team is clearly Manning's preference), one can only wonder if Whiz is ready to jettison Kolb this year, and claim yet another QB on the market that will save us. That was pretty much the discussion being talked about when Shane interjected about the shower-----once again hijacking a thread to pad his one line posts about nothing. THat is the stench that I was talking about. That is also why JAB's insight was refreshing, because it was on topic and was insightful and made a clear point. This seems to happen almost constantly on this board.

We are discussing the topic. You just don't like what were saying in relation to it. . I suggest ignore... Ask Duck it works...
 

Syracusecards

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There absolutely is evidence he didn't know the play book. Whiz outright stated that he was upset that he was running plays with WRs in the wrong position. A QB that lets your WRs line up wrong and then runs the play clearly doesn't know the play like he should. He is the field general and needs to where everyone needs to be. Yet Derek Anderson comes in and you see him immediately fixing where WRs were lining up and putting them in position when they lined up wrong. Granted the WRs need to take some responsibility. But in the end it's the QB that needs to recognize it on the field.

Sadly, DA might have completed more passes if he left them in the wrong spots...
 

THESMEL

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well

But He put his heart and soul into it everyday! Do you think He wanted to come out and embarress himself on MNF like He did!

WHIS wasn't embarressed but He was very very wrong

Classic SMELTDOWN right there, yea I'm the stupid one? My grade sytem was accurate not perfect but accurate, before the fact
:bang:
DA SMELTDOWN LINK- BLEEP BLEEP nothing's funny out there

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXUnNnP7cCQ

DEnny Monay Night SMELTDOWN - check the stats at the end of the clip- ML was great

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYKIcnj1MJY&feature=endscreen&NR=1

link
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/fa?oldTeamId=22&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2ffa%3foldTeamId%3d22

90-100: Elite Player
Player demonstrates rare abilities and can create mismatches that have an obvious impact on the game. ... Premier NFL player who has all the skills to consistently play at a championship level. ... Rates as one of the top players at his position in the league. 80-89: Outstanding Player
Player has abilities to create mismatches versus most opponents in the NFL. ... A feature player who has an impact on the outcome of the game. ... Cannot be shut down by a single player and plays on a consistent level week in and week out. 70-79: Good Starter
Solid starter who is close to being an outstanding player. ... Has few weaknesses and usually will win his individual matchup but does not dominate in every game, especially when matched up against the top players in the league. 60-69: Average Starter
A valuable roster player but not a dominant player against the better players he faces on a weekly basis. ... Gives great effort and teams are glad to have him, but he may or may not go to the next level.50-59: Good Backup
This is a player who is really on the bubble and only starts because of a deficiency at the position. ... He lacks complete overall skills, and although he will battle, he will hinder his team's ability to play at a championship level if he is forced to be in the starting lineup consistently over a 16-game season. Teams don't mind having him on the roster but are always looking to upgrade.40-49: Below Average Backup/Core Special Teamers
Strictly a backup player who is not capable of starting. If forced to, he is only a short-term fix. ... He might make the roster because of special-teams contributions or experience. ... He is the type of player teams consistently look to replace with an upgrade. ... He always will be a borderline roster player. 30: Rookie (Post-draft)
No professional tape to evaluate. These players will have an evaluation based on their college tape, but we will not put a new grade on them until after their rookie seasons. They will carry the 30 grade throughout their first NFL season. 20: Developmental Player
Players with this grade have very little film to evaluate. Such players might flash potential in the preseason but don't have any regular-season performances to judge. they usually have very little experience but have to be tracked due to developmental potential. 10: Evaluation in Process
Need more information
Sadly, DA might have completed more passes if he left them in the wrong spots...
 
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THESMEL

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