So we are the underdogs at home against Seattle

[az1965]

710ESPN Seattle audio: Underdog Cards


September, 3, 2012
Sep 3
5:00
PM ET
By Mike Sando | ESPN.com

An underwhelming quarterback competition and key injuries to offensive linemen have lowered outside expectations for the Arizona Cardinals.

Coach Ken Whisenhunt has apparently noticed.

Asked about noticing any difference in practice with John Skelton as the starting quarterback, Whisenhunt worked in a reference to the Cardinals' underdog status against Seattle in Week 1:

"It’s too early to talk about noticing a difference. I thought we had good work today. That's the only thing that I'm really concerned about.

"We have a task this week going against Seattle. They look like a good football club. Not many people are giving us a chance, so we have to make sure we keep our head down and work."​

The Seahawks are indeed betting favorites at Arizona. The last time the Cardinals were a home underdog, they beat the 10-2 San Francisco 49ers, 21-19, in Week 14. Skelton completed 67.9 percent of his passes for 282 yards with three touchdowns and two interceptions in that game.

Should it feel like an upset if the Cardinals win Sunday? We discussed the possibilities Monday on 710ESPN Seattle. Here's the audio. Skip ahead to the 3:57 mark for the lead-in to my segment.

 

[az1965]

If you listen to the Seattle audio clip, they said "John Skelton stinks"...

I hope Skelton ends up having a big game and we beating the seachickens convincingly. I hope the defense comes to play.

 

[az1965]

Mike Sando provided a pretty balanced and impartial analysis on Skelton, Hawks vs. Cards, and Wilson...

 

[Darkside]

I honestly believe most of our games would be upsets if we win. We have Skelton behind center, who's barely better than a rook at this point. And I worry about the dude's health behind our destroyed oline. I know the guys' big, but he's going to get hit alot. My biggest fear isn't just him getting injured, but that playing behind our oline actually stunts his growth by making him twitchy and skittish. Every QB has a clock in his head, and behind this oline his is always going to read 1 or 2 before he has to throw. I think that's very difficult to get rid of once it's embedded in your mind.

And I know some people aren't worried about our oline, or are even somewhat relieved and happy about Levi and Bridges going down but my thing is more from a depth standpoint. Both our tackles have gone down now (granted, Bridges was a backup), which means not only are we plugging holes, but it means if one or both starters get injured at some point we are done for the season.

From a depth standpoint during games or during drives, it's a killer. I honestly think a lot of people are mis-understanding what a huge loss this is. The backup tackles we have are going to be drive-killers during the most crucial points in games--that is, late in games and late in drives, when everything matters. I also expect our red-zone offense to suffer greatly, especially on long drives when the starters are winded. Levi has always been in great shape and started every down. There's no way Batiste starts every down, especially late in games.

Which brings up my final point. With our re-constituted oline you're asking players to play and start more than they ever have, over the course of a full NFL season. It will begin to break down over time. I agree that Batiste could possibly play as well as Brown or better over a game or two or a few games. But over a 16 game season, when he hasn't done it, he's going to break down physically and mentally, as will the rest of our line. That is begging for injury and if not injury they're going to be awful late in the year, just like they will be late in drives and late in games.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I think that makes sense.

I believe we can win, but I also see being the under dog.

 

[Pariah]

I honestly believe most of our games would be upsets if we win.

Yeah, I hope there isn't a lot of posts about how indignant we should be because the rest of the league doesn't expect the Cards to win. We have the worst OL and QB situations in football right now, IMO.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

You build a football team like you do a home, with a solid foundation. Our foundation (OL) is near non-existent. Our D will have to work miracles all year for us to win any games. Hopefully, if they can't pass block, they can run block and we can control the game and time by running the ball constantly. I think that is our only hope. We are in for some truly ugly games this year. It will be painful to watch a lot of them I am afraid.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Certainly will be a horrible season if the players share the lack of confidence of the fan base. Somehow, I doubt that and the last half of last season showed a bunch of guys who can suck it up.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

We are in for some truly ugly games this year. It will be painful to watch a lot of them I am afraid.

Yes we are. There will lots of frustration again this year.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Certainly will be a horrible season if the players share the lack of confidence of the fan base. Somehow, I doubt that and the last half of last season showed a bunch of guys who can suck it up.

I doubt it too. One thing can be said about Coach Whis and this team and we saw it last year, they do not give up or quit in the confidence that they can win, last season was a huge reminder of this. Yes, for all the negative words people at times toss around about Whis' inability to handle his players with support, he has never lost his team...they play hard for him and they respect him and that to me shows he knows how to handle his guys.

 

[Darkside]

Certainly will be a horrible season if the players share the lack of confidence of the fan base. Somehow, I doubt that and the last half of last season showed a bunch of guys who can suck it up.

We didn't have these injuries the last half of the season. When you lack even a half-decent, mediocre line, you can't do anything on offense. Which means our D will be on the field forever, which limits their effectiveness. We just went from an A defense to a B and a C offense to a D. You aren't going to win games that way.

 

[crisper57]

Yes we are. There will lots of frustration again this year.

I have the Jets and Vikings circled as particularly frustrating. Think the Ravens game last year and you'll get the idea...

 

[Crazy Canuck]

We didn't have these injuries the last half of the season. When you lack even a half-decent, mediocre line, you can't do anything on offense. Which means our D will be on the field forever, which limits their effectiveness. We just went from an A defense to a B and a C offense to a D. You aren't going to win games that way.

Only if Snyder is some how worst than Hadnot; Massie worst than the turnstiles we had at R-tackle and that Baptiste is a disaster at L-tackle. Your premise seems to be that they are, and I will wait and see.

 

[NV555]

I'm just going to the game and hope for the best I always plan on a loss and if we have a win that is just a bonus.

 

[THESMEL]

oh hell it is what it is- bring em and punch em in their seachicken lip! We Cards fans have faced this before- we aint scared of no adversity- I think we have a good chance against what I see as a tough schedule-

Beanie can run with a inferior line- so can Rwill- Fitz put up 1400+ between Kolb and Skelton last year- now we add Floyd to the mix- Kolb is a better than average back up hungry to get a shot- again.

But us fans we are the most tempered in the history of earth- the finest metals are forged in the fires of adversity. Just a walk in the park- We have been through hell aint scared of no brimstone!

Feed the Bean - Throw a Fitz- attack! let the pieces fall where they may!

 

[Darkside]

Only if Snyder is some how worst than Hadnot; Massie worst than the turnstiles we had at R-tackle and that Baptiste is a disaster at L-tackle. Your premise seems to be that they are, and I will wait and see.

No, my premise is that they will be worse over 16 games. Massie has already been destroyed many times just in preseason. Wait until the D has schemes with stunts and zones out to the flats and rolling back inside (Massie will be just standing there, guarantee'd--by himself). I don't expect Snyder to be worse than he already was. He's continually bad, and only on our team could he even be serviceable.

Batiste will suffer badly though, you didn't mention him, the most important lineman we plugged in at LT. He will suffer something horribly. He hasn't played more than something like 8 games in a season his entire career. And he's our starting LT. The dude will never hold up over 16 games, nor even a full game--we're going to see a lot of his backup. Guess who that is?

My premise isn't that they're worse, for a game or two. My premise is that over a season, based on consistency, it's not even close. I don't even think they can maintain decent consistency for one game, let alone over a full season.

You can wait and see all you want. But then why are we here on this forum? If we're just going to regurgitate everything that happened already then we're just a bunch of amateur reporters. This forum is about discussion about the current (as of today) state of our team.

 

[Darkside]

I'm just going to the game and hope for the best I always plan on a loss and if we have a win that is just a bonus.

You're a true Cardinal fan--that's been the best option for decades now.

 

[az1965]

Whoa, folks...

So much doom and gloom...

The OL may not be that far off from last season. In fact, we may have improved by subtraction.

C'mon... Was Brandon Keith better than Bobbie Massie???? Give me Massie any day over Keith. The rook has already shown significant improvement from first pre-season to last one. While he will have his moments of embarrasments and struggles, he is a significant upgrade over Keith.

And While Levi Brown was really good in run blocking, he was horrendous in pass blocking. This is no secret. Batiste may turn out to be ok. We will see. At least in the pre-season he showed stability.

 

[Darkside]

But us fans we are the most tempered in the history of earth- the finest metals are forged in the fires of adversity.

Great line man. Reminds me of some coach, I can't remember who, but he took his team on a gold digging mission and they didn't get anything obviously, but he told them afterwards, "To get gold, you have to pound through a lot of rock and dirt."

 

[az1965]

I'm just going to the game and hope for the best I always plan on a loss and if we have a win that is just a bonus.

Fabulous attitude!

 

[NV555]

I have been a season ticket holder (LIVING IN LAS VEGAS) for a few years now long time Cardinals fan.

I can not tell you how long a drive it is back to Vegas after loosing like 5 home games in a row with DA.

I hope for the best however I see the ice burg ahead.

 

[Darkside]

Whoa, folks...

So much doom and gloom...

The OL may not be that far off from last season. In fact, we may have improved by subtraction.

C'mon... Was Brandon Keith better than Bobbie Massie???? Give me Massie any day over Keith. The rook has already shown significant improvement from first pre-season to last one. While he will have his moments of embarrasments and struggles, he is a significant upgrade over Keith.

And While Levi Brown was really good in run blocking, he was horrendous in pass blocking. This is no secret. Batiste may turn out to be ok. We will see. At least in the pre-season he showed stability.

I only believe in addition through subtraction when it's voluntary.

Levi Brown wasn't horrendous in pass blocking or run blocking. He got beat sometimes--sometimes!!--against the best pass rushers in football. Everyone got beat against those dudes at one time or another. He's taking on the best DE's and LB's ever to play this game.

I hope you're right though, because I love our team. I just think consistency-wise we're screwed. Batiste may look good for a game or two in preseason but come regular season, when dudes are getting paid, it's a different animal.

Same with Massie. You act like he looked good. To me he looked like a rook. And any other time, with a decent o-line, he's 2nd string. We've had our hand forced, which is the only reason he's starting.

Both tackles are going to get destroyed regularly.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

No, my premise is that they will be worse over 16 games. Massie has already been destroyed many times just in preseason. Wait until the D has schemes with stunts and zones out to the flats and rolling back inside (Massie will be just standing there, guarantee'd--by himself). I don't expect Snyder to be worse than he already was. He's continually bad, and only on our team could he even be serviceable.

Batiste will suffer badly though, you didn't mention him, the most important lineman we plugged in at LT. He will suffer something horribly. He hasn't played more than something like 8 games in a season his entire career. And he's our starting LT. The dude will never hold up over 16 games, nor even a full game--we're going to see a lot of his backup. Guess who that is?

My premise isn't that they're worse, for a game or two. My premise is that over a season, based on consistency, it's not even close. I don't even think they can maintain decent consistency for one game, let alone over a full season.

You can wait and see all you want. But then why are we here on this forum? If we're just going to regurgitate everything that happened already then we're just a bunch of amateur reporters. This forum is about discussion about the current (as of today) state of our team.

As of today, you project a virtual disaster over 16 games. Got it!

I don't at this point, and reserve the right to agree with you when there is actual evidence (real game conditions and results) to support your doom and gloom.

 

[Darkside]

As of today, you project a virtual disaster over 16 games. Got it!

I don't at this point, and reserve the right to agree with you when there is actual evidence (real game conditions and results) to support your doom and gloom.

That's fair, but it should be noted I always think we're making the playoffs. Just not this year.

 

[Pariah]

The OL may not be that far off from last season.

IMO, in order for the Cardinals to be a decent team, the offensive line DOES need to be far off from last year's line. It wasn't good last year, either, and unfortunately, I think we've moved the wrong way from that benchmark.

Levi didn't live up to his draft position, but he's a veteran that was solid down the stretch.

Massie might be the long-term answer on the right side, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that he wouldn't have earned that starting position until mid season with the Cardinals if at all.

Snyder has not showed us much in a Cardinals or a 9ers uniform. Colledge is just okay. How much would you wager that they keep their starting jobs for 16 games? I wouldn't put a dime on it.

Sendlein is okay, though...I guess. Horray!