So we are the underdogs at home against Seattle

[Darkside]

It's sad that with Levi and with Bridges people were all over this o-line as being horrible. Yet without them--with scrubs or rooks--people are defending them. Makes no sense. Actually makes me think some of you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

 

[Pariah]

It's sad that with Levi and with Bridges people were all over this o-line as being horrible. Yet without them people are defending them. Makes no sense.

It's make sense if we went out and got players that have proven they're better. But as it is--they were replaced out of necessity and not choice--you're right. It's messed up.

 

[Buckybird]

Whoa, folks...

So much doom and gloom...

The OL may not be that far off from last season. In fact, we may have improved by subtraction.

C'mon... Was Brandon Keith better than Bobbie Massie???? Give me Massie any day over Keith. The rook has already shown significant improvement from first pre-season to last one. While he will have his moments of embarrasments and struggles, he is a significant upgrade over Keith.

And While Levi Brown was really good in run blocking, he was horrendous in pass blocking. This is no secret. Batiste may turn out to be ok. We will see. At least in the pre-season he showed stability.

Yep it was definately time for a change! Hated the resigning of Levi though I didn't wanted him hurt, it was time to move on from 1 of the worst starting OTs in the NFL game.

 

[Darkside]

Yep it was definately time for a change! Hated the resigning of Levi though I didn't wanted him hurt, it was time to move on from 1 of the worst starting OTs in the NFL game.

Let me know how Batiste works out in 16 weeks dude.

And you act like we're moving on. We're not. Levi was injured and will be back next year. And after the year Batiste has we'll all be glad.

 

[az1965]

I only believe in addition through subtraction when it's voluntary.

Levi Brown wasn't horrendous in pass blocking or run blocking. He got beat sometimes--sometimes!!--against the best pass rushers in football. Everyone got beat against those dudes at one time or another. He's taking on the best DE's and LB's ever to play this game.

I hope you're right though, because I love our team. I just think consistency-wise we're screwed. Batiste may look good for a game or two in preseason but come regular season, when dudes are getting paid, it's a different animal.

Same with Massie. You act like he looked good. To me he looked like a rook. And any other time, with a decent o-line, he's 2nd string. We've had our hand forced, which is the only reason he's starting.

Both tackles are going to get destroyed regularly.

I would have to disagree with you on these points.

I'm comparing Massie with similar players last year at RT and he is an upgrade, no questions, since the premise of this doom and gloom is that our OL has "significantly" deterioratred.

As for Levi Brown, yes he was and has been horrendous in pass blocking. He is a solid run blocker though and I have already acknowledged that.

Our OL was ranked 31st last year... that's right, 31st! There cannot be much further down when you are already at the bottom of the barrel.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...sonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go


Levi Brown - one of the least valuable players in NFL:"
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/589/the-25-least-valuable-players-in-the-nfl

The Cardinals had no such luck with Brown, who made it through all 16 games. One comment upon close observation of Brown: "[Brown] struggled with outside rushers all day, which is a problem considering he's an offensive tackle."

 

[gmabel830]

Let me know how Batiste works out in 16 weeks dude.

How do you know how well he will or will not hold up over 16 weeks? He's a virtual rookie, and plenty of rookies have come in and played well over 16 weeks in the NFL. Just because he hasn't done it before, doesn't mean he isn't capable of doing it.

 

[Buckybird]

It's sad that with Levi and with Bridges people were all over this o-line as being horrible. Yet without them--with scrubs or rooks--people are defending them. Makes no sense. Actually makes me think some of you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

I agree

It's make sense if we went out and got players that have proven they're better. But as it is--they were replaced out of necessity and not choice--you're right. It's messed up.

we might have become better by mistake, who knows. I'm very much willing to give it this year to find out, considering our OLine was probably in the bottom 10 in terms of sucking ass!

 

[az1965]

we might have become better by mistake, who knows. I'm very much willing to give it this year to find out, considering our OLine was probably in the bottom 10 in terms of sucking ass!

Try bottom five ... I have yet to see a ranking where we were ranked higher than 27.

 

[Darkside]

I would have to disagree with you on these points.

I'm comparing Massie with similar players last year at RT and he is an upgrade, no questions, since the premise of this doom and gloom is that our OL has "significantly" deterioratred.

As for Levi Brown, yes he was and has been horrendous in pass blocking. He is a solid run blocker though and I have already acknowledged that.

Our OL was ranked 31st last year... that's right, 31st! There cannot be much further down when you are already at the bottom of the barrel.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...sonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go


Levi Brown - one of the least valuable players in NFL:"
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/589/the-25-least-valuable-players-in-the-nfl

Our horrible QB's contributed to our O-line rating. The last time we had a QB willing to throw the ball away and take an incompletion was KW. It's a lost art, because they're all so worried about stats. KW threw the ball away, into the dirt and over dude's heads. We haven't had anyone like that in years. Then you get into the sacks and Kolb ran into more sacks than anyone I've ever seen.

Doesn't matter what anyone says to me about Levi. No articles you can present to me matter. There are other ratings like stamina, toughness, team-lockeroom stability and leadership, as well as others, that matter just as much as how often he got beat. He got beat against some badasses. Like I said, against some of the best rushers in the NFL, players that will go into the HOF. They beat him, but it wasn't every time.

As far as his other intangibles, his stamina, his conditioning, and his attitude, we'll see how that plays out with Batiste. In stamina and conditioning Levi was pro-bowl material. If Batiste can do that then I'm all for it and will be as happy as anyone.

You can't compare Massie to anyone though. He got busted so many times in preseason it's not funny. And he's never played every down for a full 16 games. If we weren't desperate he'd be riding pine as a backup.

 

[Buckybird]

Let me know how Batiste works out in 16 weeks dude.

And you act like we're moving on. We're not. Levi was injured and will be back next year. And after the year Batiste has we'll all be glad.

I find it no differant than Wiz benching Kolb for Skelton, to see if he can get better production. I can say without hesitation, Levi sucks in pass pro & if Batiste performs better than #75 & Massie shows the promise most say he has, #75 should be shown the door.

I don't know, you don't know, we're about to find out!

 

[Darkside]

How do you know how well he will or will not hold up over 16 weeks? He's a virtual rookie, and plenty of rookies have come in and played well over 16 weeks in the NFL. Just because he hasn't done it before, doesn't mean he isn't capable of doing it.

We're talking about Batiste right? He's not a rook, he was picked up in 2006 by the Cowboys after spending 2 years in the Arena league (and it was actually the arena developmental league). And I base his longevity on the fact that he's never played more than 8 games in the NFL during any season. That's half a season dude, at his best. That's how I know.

 

[gmabel830]

We're talking about Batiste right? He's not a rook, he was picked up in 2006 by the Cowboys after spending 2 years in the Arena league (and it was actually the arena developmental league). And I base his longevity on the fact that he's never played more than 8 games in the NFL during any season. That's half a season dude, at his best. That's how I know.

He's never been asked to play more than 8 games in an NFL season. So, no one really knows how will hold up over 16 games. I think it's an assumption on your part that he will break down toward the end of the year. My rookie example was meant to be an analogy that plenty of players that have never played 16 games in a season before hold up in the NFL.

I'm not arguing he's an upgrade (which he's clearly not) or anything, just that no one knows how he will hold up over an entire season.

 

[Darkside]

I find it no differant than Wiz benching Kolb for Skelton, to see if he can get better production. I can say without hesitation, Levi sucks in pass pro & if Batiste performs better than #75 & Massie shows the promise most say he has, #75 should be shown the door.

I don't know, you don't know, we're about to find out!

I'm pretty sure I know. LOL. Batiste won't play near Levi level and Levi will return next year to resume his starting role. Massie won't play near starter material but will have gained so much knowledge during such a tumultuous season that he's ready for anything (he may become the best starting RT we've ever had, even though he gets destroyed this year).

It's a lot different than Whis benching Kolb dude, because that was a choice, and this is not. We have nobody able to replace Levi at this point, and frankly nobody I've seen in FA or the draft has been adequate or even close. Massie is a different story, because he's a rook, but man he's going to get assbeat a lot this year.

 

[Darkside]

He's never been asked to play more than 8 games in an NFL season. So, no one really knows how will hold up over 16 games. I think it's an assumption on your part that he will break down toward the end of the year. My rookie example was meant to be an analogy that plenty of players that have never played 16 games in a season before hold up in the NFL.

I'm not arguing he's an upgrade (which he's clearly not) or anything, just that no one knows how he will hold up over an entire season.

Fair enough man, I just disagree (as do you). I'll say again though I'd love anyone to come in and play lights out on our oline. I just want to win. I just don't expect it, because I think the oline is so complicated and requires so much stamina. I don't think a rook or newbie can just come in and do it. Maybe I'm wrong, we'll see.

 

[artp]

QUOTE "My premise isn't that they're worse, for a game or two. My premise is that over a season, based on consistency, it's not even close. I don't even think they can maintain decent consistency for one game, let alone over a full season."
It will be a huge accomplishment for our OL to be PlayOff Quality this season. Maybe in the next 2 yrs though.

As for this "Our OL was ranked 31st last year... that's right, 31st! There cannot be much further down when you are already at the bottom of the barrel."
Oh, yea there can be.Maybe next year our OL will be ok. It would be a miracle this year.

 

[NV555]

QUOTE "My premise isn't that they're worse, for a game or two. My premise is that over a season, based on consistency, it's not even close. I don't even think they can maintain decent consistency for one game, let alone over a full season."
It will be a huge accomplishment for our OL to be PlayOff Quality this season. Maybe in the next 2 yrs though.

As for this "Our OL was ranked 31st last year... that's right, 31st! There cannot be much further down when you are already at the bottom of the barrel."
Oh, yea there can be.Maybe next year our OL will be ok. It would be a miracle this year.

Do you know who was ranked last ?

 

[Cheesebeef]

How do you know how well he will or will not hold up over 16 weeks? He's a virtual rookie, and plenty of rookies have come in and played well over 16 weeks in the NFL. Just because he hasn't done it before, doesn't mean he isn't capable of doing it.

at 30 years old, he's not a virtual rookie. he's a virtual nobody who's only getting a shot because of a) injury and b) this FO literally doing NOTHING to upgrade the OT position the last two years.

 

[Duckjake]

He's never been asked to play more than 8 games in an NFL season. So, no one really knows how will hold up over 16 games. I think it's an assumption on your part that he will break down toward the end of the year. My rookie example was meant to be an analogy that plenty of players that have never played 16 games in a season before hold up in the NFL.

I'm not arguing he's an upgrade (which he's clearly not) or anything, just that no one knows how he will hold up over an entire season.

Of course it's an assumption on his part. Everything we post about what might happen is an assumption. But our assumptions are usually based on some foundation. It has been mentioned many times that rookies will sometimes hit a wall as the NFL season gets past the 12-13 game mark. So his assumption isn't that far fetched.

3 new starters on an offensive line which has never played more than a quarter of a pre season game against starter quality defenders together. That's not encouraging especially when your coaching has been suspect for years. I don't think they'll be very good even for 1 game.

One thing we know about the Cardinals is that just when they hit rock bottom and you think they can't go any lower they get out the dynamite and blow a hole in the rock to get in even deeper. And just when you think they're headed down that hole to hell in a hand basket they suddenly head in the opposite direction.

 

[40yearfan]

Sheesh, listening to some of you guys, we might just as well throw in the towel right now and not even bother to play the games. I didn't realize we had so many Debbie Downers as fans.

 

[Duckjake]

Sheesh, listening to some of you guys, we might just as well throw in the towel right now and not even bother to play the games. I didn't realize we had so many Debbie Downers as fans.

Did you just wake up from a 40 year nap?

 

[Pariah]

we might have become better by mistake, who knows. I'm very much willing to give it this year to find out,

Yeah, we MIGHT have. It's a slim chance.

And, since neither you nor I have a say in the matter, "giving it this year to find out" is all any of us can do...every year.

 

[Chopper0080]

Our deserving to be underdogs in most every game is justified until Skelton can consistently show he can manage the deficiencies on our offensive line and run the offense. In the NFL, it generally comes down to QB play.

 

[Buckybird]

Did you just wake up from a 40 year nap?

It's actually only been a 34 yr nap

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Only if Snyder is some how worst than Hadnot; Massie worst than the turnstiles we had at R-tackle and that Baptiste is a disaster at L-tackle. Your premise seems to be that they are, and I will wait and see.

+1.

The injuries on the Oline are getting a bit overblown.

It is not like Walter Jones, and Anthony Munoz just went down for us.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

It's sad that with Levi and with Bridges people were all over this o-line as being horrible. Yet without them--with scrubs or rooks--people are defending them. Makes no sense. Actually makes me think some of you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

I think you are confused. Edit: Not to be taken as an insult.

I will speak for myself.

I thought the line was horrible with Levi Brown and Brandon Keith as the OT's. With Bridges I thought it would be a little better, with him at RT.

In the offseason (free agency to be accurate) I wanted replacements for both OT's and thought there was opportunity to do so. The Cardinals did not do so.

Now with Levi Brown hurt, and Jeremy Bridges hurt, I still say our line is horrible, but I am certainly not going to say the line got VASTLY WORSE because Bridges and Brown are hurt, and we are putting Batiste, and Massie in their place.

Does that make me a person defending Batiste, Massie, and the whole line for being the best of the best ? No. It certainly does it.

I just see putting Batiste in for Brown a very small regression at the position, and putting Massie in for Bridges a very small progression at the position.

So Brown-Colledge-Sendlein-Snyder-Bridges = Batiste-Colledge-Sendlien-Snyder-Massie. And where we have seen Brown and Bridges full potential, we have yet to see the full potential of Massie or in a lesser case Batiste.

IMHO.