Some quick notes from Red/White Practice

[DVontel]

Cole is looking unlikely to be a starter at the moment. Unless something goes horribly wrong here, Edmonds will be the backup RB for the duration of his career. Cunningham is in nothing even slightly resembling a competition to be a starter... and if he's genuinely the guy we roll out there at some point in the next years of his rookie contract, we have major OL problems.

We might get some minor production out of these players, but they're not starters, and certainly not stars on the rise.

If Chase is in the backup RB mold of a Darren Sproles or Ronnie Brown then that’s not bad at all.

 

[FB94]

No, I’m not Keims mother. MB was a key player in hiring Wilkes and he has taken that one on the chin and in the wallet. The buzz with Murray and KK is too great to dump after one year. This years draft was on paper a very good one. All that combined equals 3 years to turn this around for Keim. Nexts years free agency and draft will be OL, DL, LB heavy. 5-7 wins this year, and year two we compete for division title.

 

[JeffGollin]

Arguably the most frustrating thing about being a Cardinal rooter during the bad times is when absolutely nothing works on offense and we're stuck watching our team pick up 2 yds, 1 yds, 0 yds (except when we get stopped cold for a loss).

BA showed us how an aggressiive, creative approach to offensive playcalling could dig us out of a hole, flip a game, change a narrative etc.

Enter K2 and Murray. Whether (after a dreary year of Wilks) they can mimic BA's wizardry, remains to be seen. But, witnessing their high energy, creativity and can-do approach, I can't help but be cautiously optimistic.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Oh no! The offensive line comprised of injured castoffs doesn't look good! Needs more insight.

To be fair it might be helpful to know why. Who exactly was beaten, by whom, were there stunts, was it speed or power that seems to disrupt, etc. it’s not like what he requested was out in left field. Although the insult about being poorly written was uncalled for and not helpful.

 

[Solar7]

If Chase is in the backup RB mold of a Darren Sproles or Ronnie Brown then that’s not bad at all.

Ronnie Brown was drafted at #3 overall and was unquestionably the starter for a main chunk of his career after Auburn.

Darren Sproles' main value was as a punt returner and kick returner, something Chase Edmonds isn't doing at all, to my knowledge.

More power to Chase, but is there much likelihood he's selling jerseys and is the main reason for multiple wins at any point in his contract with us?

 

[kerouac9]

Just as a player, what were/are your thoughts on him? I’m really interested.

I had questions about his level of experience and time in the air raid offense. I thought he was a unique prospect, but too big a risk at #1 when we already had Rosen and an offensive wunderkind at HC. But I felt the same thing about Cam Newton and wouldn’t have drafted him until the teens, so what do I know?

I was at the practice yesterday and I came away with nothing other than just another practice. They showed nothing and i expected to see nothing. When the regular season starts then Id expect to see the real offense and line formations to protect KM. No need to start worrying over a practice.

Why would the team “hide” anything during a practice? What’s the point of wasting reps when your roster could be learning the offense and getting better in it? 40% of the work in training camp if going over film of what you should’ve done during plays; do you really think they’re passing on that opportunity?

No, I’m not Keims mother. MB was a key player in hiring Wilkes and he has taken that one on the chin and in the wallet. The buzz with Murray and KK is too great to dump after one year. This years draft was on paper a very good one. All that combined equals 3 years to turn this around for Keim. Nexts years free agency and draft will be OL, DL, LB heavy. 5-7 wins this year, and year two we compete for division title.

I agree that 5 wins and a handful of close losses will be enough to save Keims job, but “buzz” about KK and Murray doesn’t erase a long record of disastrous first- and second-round picks and failed offensive line signings. If Murray gets his brains beat in, it’s going to reflect extremely poorly on Keim — especially if the stadium is 1/3 empty because the team still can’t win.

What’s it like being married to a guy who has to put in those hours, tho? I imagine it’s tough.

 

[Solar7]

To be fair it might be helpful to know why. Who exactly was beaten, by whom, were there stunts, was it speed or power that seems to disrupt, etc. it’s not like what he requested was out in left field. Although the insult about being poorly written was uncalled for and not helpful.

More information is always welcome, I was just offended by what the rest of the post said, like you mentioned. We should be thankful K9 posted anything at all, not mad that he didn't say "team looked great we are going to championship ."

 

[DVontel]

Ronnie Brown was drafted at #3 overall and was unquestionably the starter for a main chunk of his career after Auburn.

Darren Sproles' main value was as a punt returner and kick returner, something Chase Edmonds isn't doing at all, to my knowledge.

More power to Chase, but is there much likelihood he's selling jerseys and is the main reason for multiple wins at any point in his contract with us?

No he wasn’t. He was always the backup behind Ricky outside of 2007 season when Ricky was suspended.

Darren Sproles’ has great value in the return, but his best value was in the passing game, especially when he was with the Saints backing up Pierre Thomas.

Yes.

 

[Solar7]

No he wasn’t. He was always the backup behind Ricky outside of 2007 season when Ricky was suspended.

Darren Sproles’ has great value in the return, but his best value was in the passing game, especially when he was with the Saints backing up Pierre Thomas.

Yes.

Oh yeah, Ronnie Brown's 71 games starting compared to Ricky Williams' 13 in the same timespan, how could I forget how close that was?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WillRi00.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BrowRo05.htm

As far as Sproles goes, he started 5 games for the Chargers and never eclipsed 60 receptions. He played his role, but as I've said in multiple other threads, it does nothing to help your team if you draft guys who go on to succeed for other teams. If they didn't do much for you, it wasn't a good draft pick.

If Chase Edmonds goes on to be a 1,000 yard back with the Buffalo Bills, but not for us, it will not have made him a good pick.

 

[FB94]

MB will not do another one and done or two and done and that includes Keims job status. By all accounts things are night and day different. I know the real criteria is W’s but this will be 2-3 year test. If we are not highly competitive by year three, no problem canning all that needs to go

 

[DVontel]

Oh yeah, Ronnie Brown's 71 games starting compared to Ricky Williams' 13 in the same timespan, how could I forget how close that was?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WillRi00.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BrowRo05.htm

As far as Sproles goes, he started 5 games for the Chargers and never eclipsed 60 receptions. He played his role, but as I've said in multiple other threads, it does nothing to help your team if you draft guys who go on to succeed for other teams. If they didn't do much for you, it wasn't a good draft pick.

If Chase Edmonds goes on to be a 1,000 yard back with the Buffalo Bills, but not for us, it will not have made him a good pick.

Oof, I could’ve sworn Ricky got more bulk of the carries than Ronnie did after suspension. I’ll eat crow on that.


I’m not sure what playing for other teams has to do with anything? I said if he was in the mold of a backup RB like Sproles, nothing else. The different teams he played for is irrelevant.

 

[slanidrac16]

Arguably the most frustrating thing about being a Cardinal rooter during the bad times is when absolutely nothing works on offense and we're stuck watching our team pick up 2 yds, 1 yds, 0 yds (except when we get stopped cold for a loss).

BA showed us how an aggressiive, creative approach to offensive playcalling could dig us out of a hole, flip a game, change a narrative etc.

Enter K2 and Murray. Whether (after a dreary year of Wilks) they can mimic BA's wizardry, remains to be seen. But, witnessing their high energy, creativity and can-do approach, I can't help but be cautiously optimistic.

We weren’t lighting the league on fire when Arians took over. It took Palmer more than a couple of weeks to get it. At least Kyler has a leg up on knowing the offense. Hopefully the other 10 guys get it quickly.

 

[Solar7]

Oof, I could’ve sworn Ricky got more bulk of the carries than Ronnie did after suspension. I’ll eat crow on that.


I’m not sure what playing for other teams has to do with anything? I said if he was in the mold of a backup RB like Sproles, nothing else. The different teams he played for is irrelevant.

I get the second part, but Sproles shot out of a cannon and really showed it quickly. I don't see it in Edmonds. A starting WR and a backup RB with maybe a complimentary role is not much of a draft haul.

Edit: To your credit with Ricky, he did have a very solid 2009 while Brown struggled with some injuries.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I get the second part, but Sproles shot out of a cannon and really showed it quickly. I don't see it in Edmonds. A starting WR and a backup RB with maybe a complimentary role is not much of a draft haul.

Not all draft picks can be judged by how many Pro Bowlers you attain to justify success. I think as a average the Cardinals did about as good as a majority of the teams in that class... but I do agree with you about Edmonds, he does not suck and is a pro rotation but has really no special qualities (IDK, maybe vision) and would still say Kerwynn Williams holds the same value

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not only that, but probably zero who thought drafting Kyler Murray was an interesting option at #1.

Maybe around the time he was considering playing football at all, we may have heard something from @CrimsonWarrior, but still.

I read an article about kyler early in the season that got me really pumped up but sad that we wouldn’t take him because we had Rosen (and I was still hopeful about Rosen). Then I saw them both play and i started worrying that kyler might be a missed opportunity. Then I got trapped in dinosaur thinking about his height. I finally overcame that and thought he was our best chance at next level ever.

 

[SECTION 11]

I read an article about kyler early in the season that got me really pumped up but sad that we wouldn’t take him because we had Rosen (and I was still hopeful about Rosen). Then I saw them both play and i started worrying that kyler might be a missed opportunity. Then I got trapped in dinosaur thinking about his height. I finally overcame that and thought he was our best chance at next level ever.

And now look at ya. Juuuust look at ya.

 

[Solar7]

Not all draft picks can be judged by how many Pro Bowlers you attain to justify success. I think as a average the Cardinals did about as good as a majority of the teams in that class... but I do agree with you about Edmonds, he does not suck and is a pro rotation but has really no special qualities (IDK, maybe vision) and would still say Kerwynn Williams holds the same value

It's not Pro Bowlers, but considering we have a grand total of two guys from Keim's tenure on a second contract, and one is Rodney freaking Gunter, who would have gone anywhere else if he had a chance, I'm none too happy.

Six years of drafts (not counting this year) and 7 guys on the roster remaining. Take it from 5 years and there's 4, if TJ Logan even makes this roster.

It's pathetic.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I read an article about kyler early in the season that got me really pumped up but sad that we wouldn’t take him because we had Rosen (and I was still hopeful about Rosen). Then I saw them both play and i started worrying that kyler might be a missed opportunity. Then I got trapped in dinosaur thinking about his height. I finally overcame that and thought he was our best chance at next level ever.

Yep, same.

Rosen will never be as good as Murray. It would be one thing if Murray was a limited thrower like Lamar Jackson, but he not only is a better athlete he also throws the ball better.

 

[Solar7]

I read an article about kyler early in the season that got me really pumped up but sad that we wouldn’t take him because we had Rosen (and I was still hopeful about Rosen). Then I saw them both play and i started worrying that kyler might be a missed opportunity. Then I got trapped in dinosaur thinking about his height. I finally overcame that and thought he was our best chance at next level ever.

Not trying to turn this into another debate thread, but I think calling that "dinosaur thinking" instead of "statistics" is a weird route to go with it.

 

[Solar7]

Yep, same.

Rosen will never be as good as Murray. It would be one thing if Murray was a limited thrower like Lamar Jackson, but he not only is a better athlete he also throws the ball better.

I also think it's ridiculous to already claim Lamar Jackson is a "limited thrower" and toss a guy that was a first round pick that won most of his games under the bus this soon.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And now look at ya. Juuuust look at ya.

Oooh you’re starting to re-emerge. About time. I likes it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's not Pro Bowlers, but considering we have a grand total of two guys from Keim's tenure on a second contract, and one is Rodney freaking Gunter, who would have gone anywhere else if he had a chance, I'm none too happy.

Six years of drafts (not counting this year) and 7 guys on the roster remaining. Take it from 5 years and there's 4, if TJ Logan even makes this roster.

It's pathetic.

That paints an incredibly grim picture.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Murray’s decision-making and release are so quick that guys done really have time to get their hands up.

Now, will that change once Murray has a three-INT half and he’s not sure about the defense that he’s seeing and starts double-clutching on some throws? We’ll see.

I am kind of here with you. I haven't seen a ball come out as fast as it does with Murray.

So I am both excited but also we don't get this lucky. It's not in the proverbial cards

 

[kerouac9]

Yep, same.

Rosen will never be as good as Murray. It would be one thing if Murray was a limited thrower like Lamar Jackson, but he not only is a better athlete he also throws the ball better.

Please stop.

Murray could potentially end up like almost every other Air Raid QB who put up eye-boggling numbers in college while being exposed as Kliff Kingsbury at the next level.

Murray could also be caught in a vortex of an execrable offensive line and develop bad habits that he'll never break.

It's way too soon for you be placing the same endorsement on Kyler Murry that you were SO SURE ABOUT with Johnny Football.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Please stop.

Murray could potentially end up like almost every other Air Raid QB who put up eye-boggling numbers in college while being exposed as Kliff Kingsbury at the next level.

Murray could also be caught in a vortex of an execrable offensive line and develop bad habits that he'll never break.

It's way too soon for you be placing the same endorsement on Kyler Murry that you were SO SURE ABOUT with Johnny Football.

<yawn>

It's my opinion. Rosen looked like dog poo last year. Murray would be better with an arm and leg tied behind his back.