Somers Reports 49ers Appear To Be Serious About Kurt: Set Up Meeting

[CardsFan88]

*joke alert*

Do the 49ers have that much money to spend?

Or will it lead to such serious cutbacks, Singletary will literally lose his pants on the deal?

 

[moklerman]

Bartlestein pushing, Warner resisting?

 

[TopGun]

Bartlestein pushing, Warner resisting?

Exactly!!!!

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Warner leads the Cardinals to the Superbowl, has an MVP caliber season, and 75% of this forum want to ditch him for Matt Leinart? Are you kidding me? Pay the man like any other sane organization would. It's most likely only going to be for 2 years anyways. But this IS the Cardinals we're talking about. They'll find a way to turn this into a PR nightmare. Most fans would be pissed if they let him walk over a couple million. I don't understand most of the posters on here...

You don't understand because you are a Cowboy fan and watched the last three games of our season and like the rest of the national opinion think its a no brainer to pay Warner whatever he wants because of that fact.

On the otherhand we watched the ENTIRE season, feel good about our backup's potential, and essentially are not stupid enough to bid against ourselves and cave into these financial demands.

I still feel this will all work out with Warner starting Game 1 next year here but its going to be on our terms. We have all the leverage.

Oh and the "most fans" you reference - 90% of those are the casual fan and grandmas in cards tshirts who think its as simple as Kurt took us to the Super Bowl so give him whatever he wants.

This is one time where national perception might not be on our side but the proper BUSINESS decisions for the franchise going forward have to be made. National perception be damned.

 

[moklerman]

On the otherhand we watched the ENTIRE season, feel good about our backup's potential, and essentially are not stupid enough to bid against ourselves and cave into these financial demands.

What do you mean by the entire season? It's not like Warner was continually struggling with inconsistent play and just got hot in the playoffs. And what about Leinart's repeated injuries, gradual decline in play, inability to grasp the plays, questionable work habits and subpar play in '08 makes you feel good about him? I'm scared as hell about his ability to stay healthy and have no clue who the real Leinart is on the field.

Caving in is one thing, being frugal is another. They have had to expand their offer just to get to the $10M range.

 

[conraddobler]

Any good coach has no mythical number to worry about before benching.

I don't care if the main guy makes a billion and the 2nd string guy makes 5$, if the main guy stinks here comes the 5$ man.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

What do you mean by the entire season? It's not like Warner was continually struggling with inconsistent play and just got hot in the playoffs. And what about Leinart's repeated injuries, gradual decline in play, inability to grasp the plays, questionable work habits and subpar play in '08 makes you feel good about him? I'm scared as hell about his ability to stay healthy and have no clue who the real Leinart is on the field.

Caving in is one thing, being frugal is another. They have had to expand their offer just to get to the $10M range.

My point is we have the leverage. I actually am willing to go as high as 2 years 23 million to bring him back and take a nother shot at a ring. But that's my line in the sand. At that point we are hurting our ability to surround Kurt with good depth and we do have the leverage of having a potential fall back option in Leinart no matter what you think of him.

Whats unsaid about all this is that the FO and coaching staff must have a GREAT deal of faith in the progress of Matt in order to stare Warner down like this. If they didn't feel he had the goods would they really let a couple million come between the loss of Kurt and the inevitable PR fall out? For all those who call the Bidwills cheap they have never missed an opportunity to do the casual fan-crowd pleaseing move. See Emmit Smith, Jakes new deal, etc.

This is actually new ground for the FO in that respect.

 

[moklerman]

Any good coach has no mythical number to worry about before benching.

Is the reality that players very often play due to their contracts or not? If a team is paying someone a moderate amount they aren't going to have the same approach with a player that they have a vested amount in. Contract size makes a difference. This isn't a secret.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Contract size makes a difference. This isn't a secret.

Wait, so size does matter?

 

[conraddobler]

Is the reality that players very often play due to their contracts or not? If a team is paying someone a moderate amount they aren't going to have the same approach with a player that they have a vested amount in. Contract size makes a difference. This isn't a secret.

38 year old QB's get given up on like a dead mule in the desert.

If you paid a billion dollars for the mule are you gonna stand there and pray it gets up or start walking?

 

[jefftheshark]

Is the reality that players very often play due to their contracts or not? If a team is paying someone a moderate amount they aren't going to have the same approach with a player that they have a vested amount in. Contract size makes a difference. This isn't a secret.

So are you saying that you want Warner to get a huge contract so if he starts to stink the place up, they'll still play him?

JTS

 

[moklerman]

So are you saying that you want Warner to get a huge contract so if he starts to stink the place up, they'll still play him?

No, I'm saying that Warner wants to be paid a true starter's contract so he doesn't have to play all the games that his career and days with the Cardinals have been defined by.

In terms of contracts, I wish I was a Patriots fan. How nice would it be to have every free agent on the market willing to come play for your team at a discount just for the privilege of playing there?

I think Warner should get $12 per with a nice guarantee. Manning has been averaging $14M for the last 4 years and an average of some of the top QB's has been $10+ so I think a 1-2 year deal at $12 would be current market value for a top QB.

 

[conraddobler]

No, I'm saying that Warner wants to be paid a true starter's contract so he doesn't have to play all the games that his career and days with the Cardinals have been defined by.

In terms of contracts, I wish I was a Patriots fan. How nice would it be to have every free agent on the market willing to come play for your team at a discount just for the privilege of playing there?

I think Warner should get $12 per with a nice guarantee. Manning has been averaging $14M for the last 4 years and an average of some of the top QB's has been $10+ so I think a 1-2 year deal at $12 would be current market value for a top QB.

He can wish in one hand and quote stats in the other, I got a feeling he's going to either sign this thing as is or he's gone.

As it should be.

 

[moklerman]

38 year old QB's get given up on like a dead mule in the desert.

Like Warren Moon, John Elway, Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Phil Simms, etc.? None were dead mules at 38 and none were mules at all before that. Neither is Warner and he's healthier than most of those guys at this stage.

There is a difference between age and wear. Warner has plenty left in the tank and a desire to still play. Most QB's at 38 don't have one or the other or both.

 

[Assface]

In terms of contracts, I wish I was a Patriots fan. How nice would it be to have every free agent on the market willing to come play for your team at a discount just for the privilege of playing there?

Like Deion Branch and Asante Samuel? The Patriots rarely get prime free agents. Adalius Thomas is one of the few exceptions. Most of the free agents they sign tend to be guys late in their career who command less money. The "Patriots discount" is massively exaggerated.

 

[conraddobler]

Like Warren Moon, John Elway, Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Phil Simms, etc.? None were dead mules at 38 and none were mules at all before that. Neither is Warner and he's healthier than most of those guys at this stage.

There is a difference between age and wear. Warner has plenty left in the tank and a desire to still play. Most QB's at 38 don't have one or the other or both.

I'm just glad I got two years more at most to put up with this.

At most.

 

[moklerman]

As it should be.

According to who? When have the Cardinals EVER been cap-strapped or unable to sign a FA because of actual money limitations and not just choices by management? Going into an uncapped year no less.

The QB of the greatest season in (modern) Cardinals history is the guy that an example has to be made of? Really? If the Cardinals offered him $24 + incentives and a good portion guaranteed do you think anyone--players, fans, media, etc. would even blink? If Graves and Bidwill had come out and just offered an attractive contract along those lines instead of a fair or acceptable contract I think this whole mess could have been avoided.

Instead, they had to be talked up to $10+ with a guy that has professed nothing but allegiance to the franchise and strived for a change in the betterment of the team. T

 

[Assface]

According to who? When have the Cardinals EVER been cap-strapped or unable to sign a FA because of actual money limitations and not just choices by management? Going into an uncapped year no less.

Ironically, that would be right after the last playoff appearance 10 years ago when they gave a big contract to the QB who led them there.

 

[Duckjake]

f he gets $12M+ he knows he's the starter and doesn't have to play perfect football to remain the starter.

Denny Green isn't the coach anymore.

If Warner were so sensitive that he let his play be impacted by the possibility of being benched or that if he made even the slightest error the Cards would lose he would have been out of the NFL years ago.

Warner blew back to back games against the Rams in 2005 and 2006. His fumble against St.Louis at UPS in 2006 destroyed the entire season, eventually cost him his starting position, and Denny Green his job. Yet there was Kurt throwing for the lead in the Super Bowl just a month ago.

I think you vastly underestimate the man's resolve.

 

[moklerman]

I'm just glad I got two years more at most to put up with this.

Were things a lot more enjoyable with Hogeboom, Rosenbach, Tupa, Chandler, Beurlein, Kreig, Esisason, Plummer, Blake, McCown, etc.?

Do you honestly think when Leinart takes over any of you will be happy with him for very long? I really doubt it. Hell, by '10 he's going to be due a $15M bonus and if everyone's tied up in knots about giving Warner some money what are they going to think about giving even more to Leinart?

 

[jefftheshark]

No, I'm saying that Warner wants to be paid a true starter's contract so he doesn't have to play all the games that his career and days with the Cardinals have been defined by.

The only "games" I'm aware of are when he was benched when his play deserved it. Is there something else you're thinking of?

Personally, I think that Warner has been well respected by the Cardinal organization.

In terms of contracts, I wish I was a Patriots fan. How nice would it be to have every free agent on the market willing to come play for your team at a discount just for the privilege of playing there?

So we're not as good a team as the Pats, therefore we don't deserve to treated fairly? Is that what you're saying?

I think Warner should get $12 per with a nice guarantee. Manning has been averaging $14M for the last 4 years and an average of some of the top QB's has been $10+ so I think a 1-2 year deal at $12 would be current market value for a top QB.

I could see a one year deal for $12M, I doubt Warner would like it, or sign it.

JTS

 

[Lefty]

If Kurt doesn't think 20 million for two years is good enough, I say good riddance. No way woulds I pay him 14 million a year. I doubt he will have the same success with San Fran as he did with the Cardinals. He is a very good qb but he is 38 years old and I think Matt can flourish in the Cards system with Fitz, Breaston and hopefully Boldin.

If Kurt signs elsewhere use some of that money to re-new Boldin's contract.

 

[conraddobler]

Were things a lot more enjoyable with Hogeboom, Rosenbach, Tupa, Chandler, Beurlein, Kreig, Esisason, Plummer, Blake, McCown, etc.?

Do you honestly think when Leinart takes over any of you will be happy with him for very long? I really doubt it. Hell, by '10 he's going to be due a $15M bonus and if everyone's tied up in knots about giving Warner some money what are they going to think about giving even more to Leinart?

I meant you posting on here actually.

I figure you'll follow Kurt into his 2nd life after football and start appearing on the various charity boards telling everyone how they need to accept Kurts management fee demands with quotes in hand from the legends of charity past as your sword.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Were things a lot more enjoyable with Hogeboom, Rosenbach, Tupa, Chandler, Beurlein, Kreig, Esisason, Plummer, Blake, McCown, etc.?

Do you honestly think when Leinart takes over any of you will be happy with him for very long? I really doubt it. Hell, by '10 he's going to be due a $15M bonus and if everyone's tied up in knots about giving Warner some money what are they going to think about giving even more to Leinart?

Well thats not true. Some of us are hoping for the best with the kid.

If Matt ever achieves the level of success that I have planned for him I will officially change my screen name to AZLeinartfan

 

[moklerman]

I think you vastly underestimate the man's resolve.

I think he "can" deal with it. Obviously so as you stated. But he has specifically stated that he doesn't "want" to deal with it and it takes away from why he plays the game. Everyone strives for perfection but to require such a small margin of error from the QB position is understandably grueling.

I'm sure Warner would like to have a 5 pick game like Romo or Peyton and his team still win (or should have if not for a short missed FG).