Sonicsgate: How Stern stole the Sonics

[slinslin]

Interesting documentary worth watching.

Very sad the Sonics aren't there anymore, hope it never happens to us. Schultz sounds much like Sarver though although Sarver has learned from some mistakes I think.

 

[slinslin]

Anybody watch it? It is really well made.

Obviously Ray Allen isn't the best shooter to ever live though and the Sonics fans are obviously somewhat biased about their team and all.

David Stern really comes across as the corporate capitalist scum that he is. Those emails between him and the Thunder owner make me sick to my stomach. Never read about those before.

How can anyone belief that this guy isn't playing favorites on suspensions, refs or draft lottery. He is all about money and personal agenda, imo.

He doesn't care about the teams at all, what he cares about is money. Who cares about the Sonics, I'll just put them into Oklahoma and change their name and market Kevin Durant.

Hope it blows up into his face eventually.

OKC Thunder easily move into my top 3 least likable franchises. Actually would like to root for the Lakers to rout them if it didn't mean a Lakers-Suns WCF series.

 

[Chaplin]

People in Seattle still won't talk about the Sonics, and you can't even mention OKC or Durant in casual conversation. Literally. It's a little weird, but understandable.

 

[elindholm]

People in Seattle still won't talk about the Sonics, and you can't even mention OKC or Durant in casual conversation.

That's because they're all too jazzed up on caffeine to follow any conversation coherently.

 

[green machine]

How can anyone belief that this guy isn't playing favorites on suspensions, refs or draft lottery. He is all about money and personal agenda, imo.

He doesn't care about the teams at all, what he cares about is money. Who cares about the Sonics, I'll just put them into Oklahoma and change their name and market Kevin Durant.

Stern is absolutely all about money, but I have a very difficult time believing the league figured it would be better off if the Spurs advanced past the Suns in 2007. I think it was just Stern and his crew making a mistake, nothing more.

But his job is to make the most money for the owners, and that's what he did. From the video it seemed Key Arena wasn't a place that could sustain NBA basketball, and that wasn't going to change.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I love the fact that they are in OKC personally. They are doing a great job with the franchise.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

It's still a big, giant, wad of BS

the fact they sold off every possible decent player, stocked up on draft picks and "took their lumps" to build an exciting young team for a different city makes me hate them even more

key arena had the misfortunate of having a ton of money dropped into it to make it a top flight venue right before the next wave of new buildings ..... it missed what a lot of the newer places had

which made for a tough situation in that the city/state had just put public money into the key renovation and stadiums for the seahawks & Ms

it also doesn't help that you have a complete bastage like clay boy running around killing any financially solvent deal and stern stating that the only way the team could remain is through a completely new stadium (which of course he went back on once they left saying that if the key was renovated again then maybe an expansion team..........)

as for the lakers/sloppy seconds series ..... the only outcome that would make me happy is kobe sodomizes clay bennett at center court of the staples center - the entire series in canceled, clay spends the rest of his days in a psyche ward and kobe has his career ended and the lakers become irrelevant

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I love the fact that they are in OKC personally. They are doing a great job with the franchise.

I wonder how you would feel if the shoe was on the other foot and the city the Suns moved to was "doing a great job with the franchise"

The Sonics were THE team in Seattle and the only one with a Championship in their history. Their pedigree as a franchise is comprable to our own and in fact basketball is MUCH bigger there on every level because of all the rain and that bball is played indoors. If the Suns were to be relocated, a piece of my heart would go with it, no matter what the circumstances.

The Sonics leaving Seattle is a travesty and the biggest stain on the tenure of David Stern as commissioner IMO.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I wonder how you would feel if the shoe was on the other foot and the city the Suns moved to was "doing a great job with the franchise"

The Sonics were THE team in Seattle and the only one with a Championship in their history. Their pedigree as a franchise is comprable to our own and in fact basketball is MUCH bigger there on every level because of all the rain and that bball is played indoors. If the Suns were to be relocated, a piece of my heart would go with it, no matter what the circumstances.

The Sonics leaving Seattle is a travesty and the biggest stain on the tenure of David Stern as commissioner IMO.

Agreed. Kudos to OKC for being a great crowd, but it ain't their team. One of the bigger screw jobs in recent memory.

 

[AfroSuns]

Stern is absolutely all about money, but I have a very difficult time believing the league figured it would be better off if the Spurs advanced past the Suns in 2007. I think it was just Stern and his crew making a mistake, nothing more.

Didn'tit say in that documentary Bennett is one of the owners of the Spurs, that would explain why the Suns were screwed over. Especially if you see the email exchange (in the documentary)between him and Stern.

Cant believe i was able to watch that whole documentary considering my workload today but it was a good one and an eye-opener.
If that ever happens to the Suns, i will never tune into another basketball game.

 

[Skratchy_Seal]

Haven't seen the doc yet, but I always found it interesting that he demanded a very unrealistic $500 million arena in Seattle, but then ultimately moved to a $90 million arena in OKC. He never intended to keep the team in WA.

 

[AzStevenCal]

as for the lakers/sloppy seconds series ..... the only outcome that would make me happy is kobe sodomizes clay bennett at center court of the staples center - the entire series in canceled, clay spends the rest of his days in a psyche ward and kobe has his career ended and the lakers become irrelevant

Bitter much? Can't say I really blame ya but if it's weighing this heavy on you it might be time to take a prozac or something. Trust me, you don't want to end up in the bed next to Clay.

Steve

 

[MigratingOsprey]

bah - a rant every now and again is perfectly healthy

just because my team no longer exists doesn't mean I have to end my life long hate of the lakers and clay is a pure bottom feeder

 

[Bufalay]

Who cares? Kemp and Payton are punks! Go Suns!

 

[Chaplin]

Bitter much? Can't say I really blame ya but if it's weighing this heavy on you it might be time to take a prozac or something. Trust me, you don't want to end up in the bed next to Clay.

Steve

He's a Seattle guy, I don't blame him at all for being upset. It's a wound that won't heal anytime soon. Especially if the Thunder become consistently successful.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

I watched the film. Overall, it was alright. It definitely made it's point. Would have been nice if the citizens of Seattle gave two ***** about the Sonics before the eleventh hour though...

Bitter much?

I am.

My loyalty to the Sonics was the one sports-fan identification I held with me having not lived in the state of Washington since 1986. I grew up with the Sonics, and I even have the program from the first game my father took me to back in 1973.

But, c'est la vie.

There's nothing anyone can, or will, do about it. I've had a couple of years to get over it. There was one factoid in the film that made my stomach turn however:

"Bennett now owns all Sonics championship banners, retired jerseys and the 1979 championship trophy."

Meh.

I've tried to get into the Suns...but honestly I really don't care about the NBA anymore. My heart is just not in it.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

I've tried to get into the Suns...but honestly I really don't care about the NBA anymore. My heart is just not in it.

Yep. I still love the game of basketball and have tried to adopt a couple teams ..... but I honestly don't care enough to really follow it.

My wife is a timberwolves fan, but they don't do anything for me

We went to the NBA all star practice and the NBA Jam Session when it was out here (of course decked out in sonics gear - I heard the kid behind me ask his dad why I had on a sonics shirt when they weren't a team............)

While that was a good time it's also the last time I've spent any of my $$$ on the league in any capacity.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I wonder how you would feel if the shoe was on the other foot and the city the Suns moved to was "doing a great job with the franchise"

The Sonics were THE team in Seattle and the only one with a Championship in their history. Their pedigree as a franchise is comprable to our own and in fact basketball is MUCH bigger there on every level because of all the rain and that bball is played indoors. If the Suns were to be relocated, a piece of my heart would go with it, no matter what the circumstances.

The Sonics leaving Seattle is a travesty and the biggest stain on the tenure of David Stern as commissioner IMO.

A part of me would hurt sure. Not all teams relocate under the best circumstances. Oklahoma City has done everything that they could and more since they moved.

Those fans that loved that team so much turned down at least 2 initiatives to renovate that aging stadium. The league and the team did what they thought needed to be done.

I'd feel the exact same way if the Coyotes are forced to leave Arizona too.. even with their new found success.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I've tried to get into the Suns...but honestly I really don't care about the NBA anymore. My heart is just not in it.

I can understand that. Take the Suns out of the NBA and I become a former NBA fan. As a matter of fact, if they don't straighten out some of the politics pretty soon (Refs, CBA etc) I may go that route anyway.

Steve

 

[slinslin]

A part of me would hurt sure. Not all teams relocate under the best circumstances. Oklahoma City has done everything that they could and more since they moved.

Those fans that loved that team so much turned down at least 2 initiatives to renovate that aging stadium. The league and the team did what they thought needed to be done.

I'd feel the exact same way if the Coyotes are forced to leave Arizona too.. even with their new found success.

It is not fans who decides that and second of all the Oklahoma group never made an honest effort to get funds. They just made demands for a stadium they knew wouldn't get granted.

Did Phoenix pay the Suns the big renovation of US-Airways Arena? Not that I can remember.

 

[sundevilscott]

Haven't seen the doc yet, but I always found it interesting that he demanded a very unrealistic $500 million arena in Seattle, but then ultimately moved to a $90 million arena in OKC. He never intended to keep the team in WA.

Bing Bing Bing we have a winner.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

A part of me would hurt sure. Not all teams relocate under the best circumstances. Oklahoma City has done everything that they could and more since they moved.

Those fans that loved that team so much turned down at least 2 initiatives to renovate that aging stadium. The league and the team did what they thought needed to be done.

I'd feel the exact same way if the Coyotes are forced to leave Arizona too.. even with their new found success.

Please learn what you're talking about. They renovated the entire building during 1994 and 1995 for a cost of $95M ($75M from the city of seattle). In 1996 it reopened to much praise (even from Stern).

By 2000 there were cries that it was outdated and that they needed a new stadium or a remodel.

Between the time the renovated Key opened and Bennett grabbed control the team over $800M in public money was spent on new stadiums for the seahawks/ms

The economy up there was very sluggish and there really weren't any good proposals - especially considering that many were upset that they just spent close to $100M on a building that couldn't even last a decade ..... now they want $220M with no guarantees the same song and dance wouldn't happen in another 10 years.

However, stern made it clear that renovating the Key wouldn't work anyhow

"The reason that this journey began was because KeyArena was not an adequate arena going forward and there were a lot of recommendations made for another arena ... but the tax revenues and the various contributions weren't forthcoming.

"I would say that as far as we know, the footprint of Key is at present time not viewed as adequate to support what's necessary going forward."

So that was pretty much a waste of time ..... there were talks about building new arenas but clay always had a reason why it wouldn't work and they never got off the ground.

It was the perfect mix of bad timing, political backlash, a stubborn legislature and most importantly bad ownership (from shultz to bennett) ...... bennett did everything in his power to get out .... his sole purpose in buying the team was to move them and with that known and proven context it's hard to say that they had much of a chance to get anything done once they came on board

it's this type of "vision" that hurts the NBA and has hurt the NHL with their expansion ..... ownership is the most important aspect in professional sports .... the seattle wasn't a failing basketball city - they had 40 years of great history ...... just some clowns got involved

it was similar with the seahawks when it went from the nordstroms to behring and eventually to paul allen ... behring almost killed that franchise before it was saved by allen

 

[chickenhead]

Voter's initiatives aren't a fair measure of a fanbase's passion, because the voting population and the fanbase are not one and the same. Furthermore, the citizen in opposition to a stadium initiative is far more likely to vote, and the fan may love the team but have a different conscience about stadiums. Quebec's premiere once said that he couldn't support funding a new baseball stadium when the province was closing underfunded hospitals. Having lived in Montreal and grown to like the Expos, I really wanted the team to stay there, but I couldn't argue with that.

The other thing is that Seattle had just funded both a baseball and a football stadium. The natural reaction might be to think why not basketball as well, but for some maybe yet another was too many. Also, there probably were some who mistakenly thought the league would protect one of its oldest markets--whereas a baseball team had already left Seattle, and the Kingdome was decidedly out of fashion.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

A part of me would hurt sure. Not all teams relocate under the best circumstances. Oklahoma City has done everything that they could and more since they moved.

Those fans that loved that team so much turned down at least 2 initiatives to renovate that aging stadium. The league and the team did what they thought needed to be done.

I'd feel the exact same way if the Coyotes are forced to leave Arizona too.. even with their new found success.

Hows this for perspective?

I know it turned out the way we wanted it too, but think of how little support the UOP stadium had in 2003 because of the blue hairs who didnt want to waste tax money. I thank god the bill passed, but even as bad as I wanted it, what if it wouldn't have been enough and the bill hadn't passed and the team had moved??

Echh I dont even want to think about it. Thats how hundreds of thousands in Seattle feel. I don't wish that on anyone.

It's not OKC's fault and they have done a good job of supporting that team but Seattle didn't deserve that.

 

[Bert]

A part of me would hurt sure. Not all teams relocate under the best circumstances. Oklahoma City has done everything that they could and more since they moved.

Those fans that loved that team so much turned down at least 2 initiatives to renovate that aging stadium. The league and the team did what they thought needed to be done.

I'd feel the exact same way if the Coyotes are forced to leave Arizona too.. even with their new found success.

DCR you know you're my hero and deity, but I'm not sure what you mean with the comparison to the Coyotes? We built the Coyotes a state of the art Arena and their owners ran them into financial ruin. It's pretty well documented that when the Coyotes are competitive their attendance is good.

I guess I just dont get what you meant. Seattle voters pretty much refused to support the team with a stadium initiative, whereas Glendale built a brand new 200million dollar arena for a team that couldn't make the playoffs. I'm actually going to be pretty ticked if they leave.