SOS

[RugbyMuffin]

Do you really believe this to be the case? That they invested $62 million on a guy that they didn't perform due diligence on? Do you think that Whis and the Millers were playing Angry Birds on their phones and waiting for NFL Network highlights of Kolb to come on during the lockout? C'mon.

FTFY.

Get with the times K9!

 

[Stout]

Who IS sold on him? I don't think it's an accident that most of the people who prefer Skelton are the same ones who would like to see us draft Tyler Wilson next spring. I think that the vast majority of people supporting Skelton don't believe that he's any kind of Quarterback of the Future who is going to win a Super Bowl for the Arizona Cardinals. If you do think that, please speak up.

The question is who do you want to see this year, because next year I think we see a(nother) new starting quarterback. I've seen enough of Kolb in games that count--I'm not particularly concerned about last night. But if we're going to trust this staff to train the next quarterback, then I'd prefer to see John Skelton and Kevin Kolb again in 2013, because I have zero faith that this group can develop anybody.

I think, if he CAN correct his accuracy and develop to his full potential, he MIGHT turn into the QBOF. Right now, I have no idea if that's possible. I just feel he's definitely a better option than Kolb. Then again, that should be obvious by now

 

[Buckybird]

I think, if he CAN correct his accuracy and develop to his full potential, he MIGHT turn into the QBOF. Right now, I have no idea if that's possible. I just feel he's definitely a better option than Kolb. Then again, that should be obvious by now

His accuracy is why I don't think he will ever get much better. It was a question of Skelton coming out in the draft & IMO something you either have or you don't. Coaches might slightly be able to improve accuracy with footwork but not much. It's the reason Locker will fail in Tennessee despit his skills. If a QB cant complete 63-65% of his passes he will never be anything other than mediocre in today's NFL

 

[Duckjake]

His (Skelton) accuracy is why I don't think he will ever get much better.

All QBs not named Skelton last night: 14-32 or 43.4% completion rate.

QBs named Skelton completion rate was 67%.

 

[Buckybird]

All QBs not named Skelton last night: 14-32 or 43.4% completion rate.

QBs named Skelton completion rate was 67%.

With the Brownies announcing Weeden is the starter already & Colt slipping to 3rd on the depth chart maybe we can strike lightning in a bottle by adding McCoy when he gets axed shortly

 

[Chopper0080]

Do you really believe this to be the case? That they invested $62 million on a guy that they didn't perform due diligence on? Do you think that Whis and the Millers were playing Minesweeper in their office and waiting for NFL Network highlights of Kolb to come on during the lockout? C'mon.

It's easier for me to believe that the coaching staff and front office were just wrong (again) in their evaluation of a free agent player, than to think that they got bamboozled by the Eagles because they only sent over the tapes from when Kolb looked like the second coming of Jeff Garcia.

I believe the Cards front office and coaching staff wanted to make an impact and acquire a young QB to build around. They felt their best option was to address the position outside of the draft, and Kolb was the best option on the market.

What they failed to do was identify the support system Kolb needed to be successful, the scheme differences between the two teams, and the length of time it would take Kolb to acclimate to the Cardinals offense.

They failed to understand it is easier to build from nothing rather than try and rebuild while there is a current structure in place.

 

[kerouac9]

I believe the Cards front office and coaching staff wanted to make an impact and acquire a young QB to build around. They felt their best option was to address the position outside of the draft, and Kolb was the best option on the market.

What they failed to do was identify the support system Kolb needed to be successful, the scheme differences between the two teams, and the length of time it would take Kolb to acclimate to the Cardinals offense.

They failed to understand it is easier to build from nothing rather than try and rebuild while there is a current structure in place.

That pre-supposes that Kolb has the ability to be a successful NFL quarterback. I don't think that he is, and that a poor evaluation lead to this mess. It's the Rob Johnson problem, and the Cards are going through the same challenges that Buffalo did after making a big investment in Rob Johnson. Buffalo's gone through three or four head coaches and I think two general managers and still haven't figured that problem out.

I think that Phrazbit is right that signing Kolb was a panic move, giving up too much in compensation to get Mr. Right Now instead of spending some time actually looking for Mr. Right. The problem that Whis has is that he's going to develop a rep like Jon Gruden has of not being able to find a quarterback that he can live with and instead flailing about without a plan until he finds a guy that he can provide sponsorship to and have success with, or gets fired.

 

[Chopper0080]

That pre-supposes that Kolb has the ability to be a successful NFL quarterback. I don't think that he is, and that a poor evaluation lead to this mess. It's the Rob Johnson problem, and the Cards are going through the same challenges that Buffalo did after making a big investment in Rob Johnson. Buffalo's gone through three or four head coaches and I think two general managers and still haven't figured that problem out.

I think that Phrazbit is right that signing Kolb was a panic move, giving up too much in compensation to get Mr. Right Now instead of spending some time actually looking for Mr. Right. The problem that Whis has is that he's going to develop a rep like Jon Gruden has of not being able to find a quarterback that he can live with and instead flailing about without a plan until he finds a guy that he can provide sponsorship to and have success with, or gets fired.

Agree 100%

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I think that Phrazbit is right that signing Kolb was a panic move, giving up too much in compensation to get Mr. Right Now instead of spending some time actually looking for Mr. Right.

All true, but the Fitz contract situation (thanks Rod!) definitely played a large part in it as well. The Cards had no leverage and no legitimate qb prospects, and time was running out to try and extend Fitz.

I hate the Kolb signing, and have thought it was a mistake from the beginning, but Fitz wanted Kolb, and many considered him to be the best available QB.

This mistake was compounded by extending Kolb right away, with very little track record to base it on, and now we were forced again to pony up this off season, in the slim chance that KK actually turns into a legitimate starting QB.

 

[kerouac9]

All true, but the Fitz contract situation (thanks Rod!) definitely played a large part in it as well. The Cards had no leverage and no legitimate qb prospects, and time was running out to try and extend Fitz.

I hate the Kolb signing, and have thought it was a mistake from the beginning, but Fitz wanted Kolb, and many considered him to be the best available QB.

This mistake was compounded by extending Kolb right away, with very little track record to base it on, and now we were forced again to pony up this off season, in the slim chance that KK actually turns into a legitimate starting QB.

I honestly don't think that was the case. Fitz was going to get his. He had a front office under his thumb and a coach wrapped around his finger. There was a new CBA coming where teams weren't going to have a ton of money to spread around, and the fact of the matter is that as a general rule, the best players on teams don't leave. Was Fitz going to leave Arizona for the same amount of money in Tampa, with a new coaching staff and a different offense?

The teams who were going to have $40 million guaranteed to spend on a wideout(!!) were not going to be winning opportunities for Fitz. I know that people like to include the $20 million we've already spent on Kolb as the cost of extending Fitz, but if it was going to take $160 million to sign Fitz, of which $60 million was guaranteed, I think that even some Fitzgerald fans were going to balk at that deal.

Honestly, if you'd just given Fitz half of what we paid Kolb last year, and convinced him that we had a legitimate plan for the QB position, I think he signs the contract. But we didn't have a legitimate plan for the QB position, and we still don't.

And now we have Fitz dictating who our first-round draft picks are going to be (I understand that this is an exaggeration--but only an exaggeration). You can't trust Fitz to make personnel evaluations because he's most interested in now he can build his profile right now. He's not going to ask for the 67-catch, 984 yard, 5 TD season that Megatron had to suffer through in Matt Stafford's first year. Are the Lions better now for having to go through that? No doubt.

But you can't trust Fitz to ask for a rookie with a ton of upside in two years when he can have a vet who will give him 20% more production right now, even if it means being 8-8 instead of 12-4 in a couple of years.

 

[Phrazbit]

I honestly don't think that was the case. Fitz was going to get his. He had a front office under his thumb and a coach wrapped around his finger. There was a new CBA coming where teams weren't going to have a ton of money to spread around, and the fact of the matter is that as a general rule, the best players on teams don't leave. Was Fitz going to leave Arizona for the same amount of money in Tampa, with a new coaching staff and a different offense?

The teams who were going to have $40 million guaranteed to spend on a wideout(!!) were not going to be winning opportunities for Fitz. I know that people like to include the $20 million we've already spent on Kolb as the cost of extending Fitz, but if it was going to take $160 million to sign Fitz, of which $60 million was guaranteed, I think that even some Fitzgerald fans were going to balk at that deal.

Honestly, if you'd just given Fitz half of what we paid Kolb last year, and convinced him that we had a legitimate plan for the QB position, I think he signs the contract. But we didn't have a legitimate plan for the QB position, and we still don't.

And now we have Fitz dictating who our first-round draft picks are going to be (I understand that this is an exaggeration--but only an exaggeration). You can't trust Fitz to make personnel evaluations because he's most interested in now he can build his profile right now. He's not going to ask for the 67-catch, 984 yard, 5 TD season that Megatron had to suffer through in Matt Stafford's first year. Are the Lions better now for having to go through that? No doubt.

But you can't trust Fitz to ask for a rookie with a ton of upside in two years when he can have a vet who will give him 20% more production right now, even if it means being 8-8 instead of 12-4 in a couple of years.

Agreed. I've made this case before. Obviously its totally unprovable, but with or without Kolb its very difficult to imagine Fitz turning down that contract. And even if you suppose that Fitz does decide to take a huge risk, turns down the contract and hits the open market. You gotta figure he wont leave unless he is going to a solid team with a very good QB already in place. And when you look at the teams that would qualify to that standard, their cap situations wouldnt allow them to offer anywhere near the salary the Cardinals shelled out.

 

[82CardsGrad]

And now we have Fitz dictating who our first-round draft picks are going to be (I understand that this is an exaggeration--but only an exaggeration). You can't trust Fitz to make personnel evaluations because he's most interested in now he can build his profile right now. He's not going to ask for the 67-catch, 984 yard, 5 TD season that Megatron had to suffer through in Matt Stafford's first year. Are the Lions better now for having to go through that? No doubt.

But you can't trust Fitz to ask for a rookie with a ton of upside in two years when he can have a vet who will give him 20% more production right now, even if it means being 8-8 instead of 12-4 in a couple of years.

Fitz is first and foremost a team player... I have little doubt that if the team presented him with a viable draft solution, Larry would've accomodated...
Further, comparing him to Mega-Tron isn't really appropriate given that they were at totally different points in their career... Mega-Tron, while already demonstrating his prowess, was only in the league for 2 years. Of course he would accept a guy like Stafford as, he had no credibility otherwise...

 

[kerouac9]

Fitz is first and foremost a team player... I have little doubt that if the team presented him with a viable draft solution, Larry would've accomodated...
Further, comparing him to Mega-Tron isn't really appropriate given that they were at totally different points in their career... Mega-Tron, while already demonstrating his prowess, was only in the league for 2 years. Of course he would accept a guy like Stafford as, he had no credibility otherwise...

I'm not saying that Megatron bemoaned having to live with Matt Stafford for a season--you're missing my point.

My point is that if the Cards go with a rookie QB, even a highly pedigreed one, Fitz is going to have to suffer through a season--maybe two--where he performs far, far below his potential. Did Calvin Johnson just stink in 2010? Of course not; he just had to suffer through the growing pains of a rookie QB. Would Megatron have preferred to have had a veteran back there who could give him 80 receptions and 1300 yards? You know that's right.

Fitz wields undue control over the front office, and until that goes away, this team can't take two steps forward at the QB position, because they'd first have to take a step back. And that's a problem for the long-term future of this franchise.

The only realistic free agent QBs next offseason are going to be Matt Schaub, Matt Moore, and David Garrard. If Skelton or Kolb don't step forward and become mid-level starting QBs, you know that Fitz is going to be agitating for one of those three, because that's going to help him more in 2013 than drafting and grooming Tyler Wilson.

 

[Phrazbit]

I'm not saying that Megatron bemoaned having to live with Matt Stafford for a season--you're missing my point.

My point is that if the Cards go with a rookie QB, even a highly pedigreed one, Fitz is going to have to suffer through a season--maybe two--where he performs far, far below his potential. Did Calvin Johnson just stink in 2010? Of course not; he just had to suffer through the growing pains of a rookie QB. Would Megatron have preferred to have had a veteran back there who could give him 80 receptions and 1300 yards? You know that's right.

Fitz wields undue control over the front office, and until that goes away, this team can't take two steps forward at the QB position, because they'd first have to take a step back. And that's a problem for the long-term future of this franchise.

The only realistic free agent QBs next offseason are going to be Matt Schaub, Matt Moore, and David Garrard. If Skelton or Kolb don't step forward and become mid-level starting QBs, you know that Fitz is going to be agitating for one of those three, because that's going to help him more in 2013 than drafting and grooming Tyler Wilson.

I dont know that I agree. Fitz would push probably push for one of those guys over 2013 Lindley (equivalent to 2011 Skelton). But after the trainwreck of the last few seasons I think he would be excited to get a prized 1st round QB prospect throwing him the ball, its a different situation than looking at a 5th round guy from the patriot league or a UDFA midget being your options.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I'm not saying that Megatron bemoaned having to live with Matt Stafford for a season--you're missing my point.

My point is that if the Cards go with a rookie QB, even a highly pedigreed one, Fitz is going to have to suffer through a season--maybe two--where he performs far, far below his potential. Did Calvin Johnson just stink in 2010? Of course not; he just had to suffer through the growing pains of a rookie QB. Would Megatron have preferred to have had a veteran back there who could give him 80 receptions and 1300 yards? You know that's right.

Fitz wields undue control over the front office, and until that goes away, this team can't take two steps forward at the QB position, because they'd first have to take a step back. And that's a problem for the long-term future of this franchise.

The only realistic free agent QBs next offseason are going to be Matt Schaub, Matt Moore, and David Garrard. If Skelton or Kolb don't step forward and become mid-level starting QBs, you know that Fitz is going to be agitating for one of those three, because that's going to help him more in 2013 than drafting and grooming Tyler Wilson.

IMHO, I think you're making this out to be way bigger than it actually is... Fitz is about winning - period. If we had a shot at getting RGIII or Luck, he would've been there and on board. Any other draft pick aside from those two guys now or in the future would definitely represent a crap shoot and, in comparison to legit FA's, it's feasible to suggest that the team could be better off going with the FA over an unproven and risky draft pick.

 

[kerouac9]

I dont know that I agree. Fitz would push probably push for one of those guys over 2013 Lindley (equivalent to 2011 Skelton). But after the trainwreck of the last few seasons I think he would be excited to get a prized 1st round QB prospect throwing him the ball, its a different situation than looking at a 5th round guy from the patriot league or a UDFA midget being your options.

But that's a false choice. The choice in 2013 will likely be Skelton, one of these journeymen (and I'm a fan of Jason Campbell, but I don't think he'd work here), or a Top 10 rookie QB.

Fitz (let's not play around here) preferred Derek Anderson as the quarterback who was only going to complete 55% of his passes but have a higher YPC over Leinart, who was going to complete 60% of his passes but not force the ball down the field. Fitz talks a good game about being a team player, but if he's not getting 80 passes and 1000 yards and 8+ TDs a year, he's going to be unhappy. Even if it's for one year.

 

[kerouac9]

IMHO, I think you're making this out to be way bigger than it actually is... Fitz is about winning - period. If we had a shot at getting RGIII or Luck, he would've been there and on board. Any other draft pick aside from those two guys now or in the future would definitely represent a crap shoot and, in comparison to legit FA's, it's feasible to suggest that the team could be better off going with the FA over an unproven and risky draft pick.

Every draft pick is a risk. RGIII is a light running quarterback from a gimmick offense. Luck's coming from a run-first offense. Neither of those guys are sure things. Are either of them more or less sure things than Stafford?

Fitz isn't about winning--period. Or, he's about winning right now. Sometimes, winning right now comes at the expense of winning for the next five years. That was the lesson of the Tampa Bay Bucs under Jon Gruden. You see this all the time in the NFL.

The problem is that the window of opportunity for Fitz being one of the three best wide receivers in the NFL is much shorter and more immediate concern than the window of opportunity to the Cards becoming a team that will finish 1st or 2nd in the NFC West for five years or more.

Fitz is more concerned about establishing himself as an all-time great, and that's going to be at the expense of the Cards tearing down the Warner offense that enabled Fitz in part to be productive and building something that actually suits their personnel.

Fitz doesn't want another 2010 season. But if he had to choose between semi-tanking the 2012 season and struggling through 2013 as Tyler Wilson learns the NFL game and going with Kolb or Skelton and Jason Campbell and still getting his 80 receptions and 1200 yards, he's going to rake the catches.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Every draft pick is a risk. RGIII is a light running quarterback from a gimmick offense. Luck's coming from a run-first offense. Neither of those guys are sure things. Are either of them more or less sure things than Stafford?

Fitz isn't about winning--period. Or, he's about winning right now. Sometimes, winning right now comes at the expense of winning for the next five years. That was the lesson of the Tampa Bay Bucs under Jon Gruden. You see this all the time in the NFL.

The problem is that the window of opportunity for Fitz being one of the three best wide receivers in the NFL is much shorter and more immediate concern than the window of opportunity to the Cards becoming a team that will finish 1st or 2nd in the NFC West for five years or more.

Fitz is more concerned about establishing himself as an all-time great, and that's going to be at the expense of the Cards tearing down the Warner offense that enabled Fitz in part to be productive and building something that actually suits their personnel.

Fitz doesn't want another 2010 season. But if he had to choose between semi-tanking the 2012 season and struggling through 2013 as Tyler Wilson learns the NFL game and going with Kolb or Skelton and Jason Campbell and still getting his 80 receptions and 1200 yards, he's going to rake the catches.

Dude, seriously?? Where were RGIII, Luck and Stafford drafted?? Yes, they are risks as they've never played an NFL down. However, are you really gonna make a case that Fitz would've frowned on drafting them???? I'm so not buying that.

And, of course Fitz wants to win NOW! Why shouldn't he?? This is his 9th year in the league! How many all-world superstars that have been in the league for 9 years would say, "ya know, I want to be a part of winner 3, 4, or 5 years from now...."?

C'mon man... you're making way more about this than need be.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Every draft pick is a risk. RGIII is a light running quarterback from a gimmick offense. Luck's coming from a run-first offense. Neither of those guys are sure things. Are either of them more or less sure things than Stafford?

Fitz isn't about winning--period. Or, he's about winning right now. Sometimes, winning right now comes at the expense of winning for the next five years. That was the lesson of the Tampa Bay Bucs under Jon Gruden. You see this all the time in the NFL.

The problem is that the window of opportunity for Fitz being one of the three best wide receivers in the NFL is much shorter and more immediate concern than the window of opportunity to the Cards becoming a team that will finish 1st or 2nd in the NFC West for five years or more.

Fitz is more concerned about establishing himself as an all-time great, and that's going to be at the expense of the Cards tearing down the Warner offense that enabled Fitz in part to be productive and building something that actually suits their personnel.

Fitz doesn't want another 2010 season. But if he had to choose between semi-tanking the 2012 season and struggling through 2013 as Tyler Wilson learns the NFL game and going with Kolb or Skelton and Jason Campbell and still getting his 80 receptions and 1200 yards, he's going to rake the catches.

Evidently, Fitz is a close personal friend of yours.

 

[Shane]

Evidently, Fitz is a close personal friend of yours.

 

[kerouac9]

Evidently, Fitz is a close personal friend of yours.

Why would you quote me on this one, and not BRR, who was the first to speak for Fitz?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Why would you quote me on this one, and not BRR, who was the first to speak for Fitz?

Had I noticed, I would have done it twice.

 

[Duckjake]

Why would you quote me on this one, and not BRR, who was the first to speak for Fitz?

Because he's a **** who almost never adds anything to a thread instead just snipes at other people's posts with childish insults like that one.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Because he's a **** who almost never adds anything to a thread instead just snipes at other people's posts with childish insults like that one.

Our resident master of witless wit.

Get a life!