Spiderman has a heart problem??

[This_Guy]

They had 7 guys with at least 20 catches last year and only one with 50 or more (54 Bryson at RB). Doesn't sound to me like he locks on.

And everyone here keeps saying that Josh is locking onto Fitz, thus the picks against NE.

There's a saying in science that goes like sometimes the best explanation IS the most obvious one. Seems pretty relevant with Roy Williams, maybe the reason he's played so well is, he's pretty good?

Yes, and no. The fact that Bryson led them in catches means that Harrington is going to his check down alot. Like many young QBs, Harrington makes one read (RW) and if it's not there he goes to his checkdown. I haven't watched enough this year to know how much he's improved, but that's part of it.

Also, the WCO dictates that the ball gets spread around.

And I am not at all arguing with you that RW is just really good. He's the real deal and should have been the #1 pick. NFL talent evaluators are funny, since he was projected #1 overall for 3 years, and when he didn't come out after his JR year, all of a sudden he wasn't even the #1 WR in his draft class. In some cases, he wasn't in the top 2 or 3.

Just like with Q, NFL people know VERY LITTLE about talent.

As far as the comparison between RW and Fitz, Fitz's productivity is being hampered by the QB. Harrington is much farther along than McCown.

 

[Russ Smith]

Oh really? You might want to compare this:

http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/DET/2004/regular

to this:

http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/ARI/2004/regular

These stats also illustrate that Harrington has done a much better job than McCown. Which has been part of my point all along.

Looks to me like because Williams is so good, Streets and Hakim's stats are off, and because Fitz has been so average, Williams and Johnson are getting the ball more. Of course I can no more prove that than you can prove the opposite. Which is what makes debating with you so "fun" you love to pull things out of nowhere just to continue the debate.

For the Nth time, the best part of Harringtons stats is the TD to INT ratio, 6 to 2, and 4 of those 6 TD's went to Roy, including at least 2 that were basically up for grabs could have been picked balls that Williams snagged and turned into touchdowns, and a 3rd that was basically a crossing pattern that Roy bounced off half the Eagles defense and turned into a TD. That's why some of us are talking about how it IS possible for even a rookie WR to make plays on his own talent, because Roy is doing it.

This ought to pacify you, I'll bet you a week's posting privileges that Fitz is as good or better this Sunday than Roy Williams? Agreed, if Fitz doesn't put up at least as good of numbers this week, I won't post for a week, if he puts up as good or better, you don't post for a week.

 

[Pariah]

This ought to pacify you, I'll bet you a week's posting privileges that Fitz is as good or better this Sunday than Roy Williams? Agreed, if Fitz doesn't put up at least as good of numbers this week, I won't post for a week, if he puts up as good or better, you don't post for a week.

Russ, do you have this backwards? Why would you bet that Fitz will be better than RW if you've been arguing the opposite for 10 pages?

 

[Russ Smith]

Yes, and no. The fact that Bryson led them in catches means that Harrington is going to his check down alot. Like many young QBs, Harrington makes one read (RW) and if it's not there he goes to his checkdown. I haven't watched enough this year to know how much he's improved, but that's part of it.

Also, the WCO dictates that the ball gets spread around.

.

So in 2000 when warrick dunn caught 44 balls that was because the QB was checking down too much?

The biggest reason Bryson led them in catches is Rogers got hurt, Hakim only played 14 games and Bill Schroder was their #2 WR most of the season. Hell even their TE's combined to catch 60 balls. Harrington is one young QB who near as I can tell can't accurately be described as locking onto one WR and not seeing the field.

Even in his rookie year they had 6 guys with 20 or more catches and a 7th with 19. And of course the WCO uses RB's as receivers a lot so it's not that he's checking down all the time, sometimes in the WCO the RB IS the primary wr, they use short passes as runs, that's a big part of the whole Walsh philosphy. When Earl Cooper is your best RB, you find another way to use your RB's.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ, do you have this backwards? Why would you bet that Fitz will be better than RW if you've been arguing the opposite for 10 pages?

Because Roy has a bye this week and I was hoping to sucker Pete into a can't lose bet.

 

[Pariah]

Ah, well, good bet, then. Carry on.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Ah, well, good bet, then. Carry on.

Man you ruin everything!

 

[This_Guy]

So in 2000 when warrick dunn caught 44 balls that was because the QB was checking down too much?As I said, all young QBs use their safety blankets too much. Since two WRs led the team iin catches, it would be difficult to say that 44 catches by the RB was overly excessive. Brad Johnson is an example of a QB who has gotten by hitting the checkdown as a default. Look how many years the RB leads Brad Johnson teams' in catches, and you'll quickly see why DG got rid of him

The biggest reason Bryson led them in catches is Rogers got hurt, Hakim only played 14 games and Bill Schroder was their #2 WR most of the season. Hell even their TE's combined to catch 60 balls. Harrington is one young QB who near as I can tell can't accurately be described as locking onto one WR and not seeing the field.

Even in his rookie year they had 6 guys with 20 or more catches and a 7th with 19. And of course the WCO uses RB's as receivers a lot so it's not that he's checking down all the time, sometimes in the WCO the RB IS the primary wr, they use short passes as runs, that's a big part of the whole Walsh philosphy. When Earl Cooper is your best RB, you find another way to use your RB's.I'm not bagging on Harrington, I like Harrington. I agree with you that the WCO spreads the ball around and RBs catch alot of balls. From what I've seen, on downfield plays, Harrington is really favoring RW. That's not a bad thing. Manning sometimes does it with Harrison. The difference is, if Manning sees that Harrison is covered, he can go to another receiver. Harrington can't do that yet.

x

 

[Pariah]

Man you ruin everything!

I was SO dead-on when I compared you to my wife this morning. I'll bet you can't cook worth a damn, either.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

I was SO dead-on when I compared you to my wife this morning. I'll bet you can't cook worth a damn, either.

I can't thats true.

I just hope I have more hair on my chest!

 

[Russ Smith]

x

I'll agree with that.

I just think you have to be careful just saying look how many catches the RB has, the QB is clearly not looking downfield, sometimes it is by design.

Someone earlier said they think Josh will be gone next year and that Brad Johnson will be the replacement, I nearly posted then you gotta be kidding, there's a reason Green got rid of him. Good QB in some ways, but Green wants certain things from his QB and throwing deep is definitely one of them.

That was one of my early comments to you on why I was surprised Green cut Blake and signed King, Blake fit the classic Green QB, King didn't, but of course Blake's personality is something Green didn't want to deal with.

At this point I'm with everyone else, if Josh isn't moving the team again Sunday I'm all for benching him for King and letting him watch a more seasoned guy and learn from it.

 

[Sandan]

Heard more 'Leon' comments on 910 yesterday, re:Jeff Blake

 

[This_Guy]

I'll agree with that.

I just think you have to be careful just saying look how many catches the RB has, the QB is clearly not looking downfield, sometimes it is by design.

Someone earlier said they think Josh will be gone next year and that Brad Johnson will be the replacement, I nearly posted then you gotta be kidding, there's a reason Green got rid of him. Good QB in some ways, but Green wants certain things from his QB and throwing deep is definitely one of them.

That was one of my early comments to you on why I was surprised Green cut Blake and signed King, Blake fit the classic Green QB, King didn't, but of course Blake's personality is something Green didn't want to deal with.

At this point I'm with everyone else, if Josh isn't moving the team again Sunday I'm all for benching him for King and letting him watch a more seasoned guy and learn from it.

Brad Johnson was overrated when he was good, and he's been freaking-awful for at least the past season and a half.

Jon Gruden is the best playcaller and offensive mind in the game by far, but he couldn't spot talent to save his life. He's been wrong on almost every personnel decision he's made, especially at QB.

Gruden fell in love with Rob Johnson and also signed Jim Miller, Shane Matthews and Brian Griese. All were/are total busts. King was the QB of the future in Tampa until Gruden fell in love with Simms and apparently after Simms' debut people are ready to question that decision. King should have started last year in Tampa and Simms should be starting this year but Gruden refuses to take Johnson out.

If not for Gruden being a stubborn idiot, Brad Johnson's career would have been over at least a year ago.

 

[pete]

For the Nth time, the best part of Harringtons stats is the TD to INT ratio, 6 to 2, and 4 of those 6 TD's went to Roy, including at least 2 that were basically up for grabs could have been picked balls that Williams snagged and turned into touchdowns, and a 3rd that was basically a crossing pattern that Roy bounced off half the Eagles defense and turned into a TD. That's why some of us are talking about how it IS possible for even a rookie WR to make plays on his own talent, because Roy is doing it.

How many catchable balls has Fitz had thrown to him in the endzone? Like I've been saying, RW has had more quality opportunities due to the better play of his QB.

This ought to pacify you, I'll bet you a week's posting privileges that Fitz is as good or better this Sunday than Roy Williams? Agreed, if Fitz doesn't put up at least as good of numbers this week, I won't post for a week, if he puts up as good or better, you don't post for a week.

Am I really getting the best of you to where you don't want me to post for a week? I know it is easy to shoot down an argument comparing players after only 3 games, but sheesh.

 

[Russ Smith]

How many catchable balls has Fitz had thrown to him in the endzone? Like I've been saying, RW has had more quality opportunities due to the better play of his QB.



Am I really getting the best of you to where you don't want me to post for a week? I know it is easy to shoot down an argument comparing players after only 3 games, but sheesh.

Define catchable? Again 3 of Roy's TD's were balls that he turned into TD's either with a great catch or a great run after the catch. He's doing that on his own. They weren't great throws but good enough for Roy to make great plays on them.

Getting best of no, getting tired of someone pulling arguments out of their ear just to extend something yes.

Go to a Lions board, tell them all how good Joey Harrington is, and then read all the replies. Hint, Lions fans were cheering for Mike "safety playing QB" McMahon last year and this year in the preseason. They thought Harrington was overrated bordering on a bust, until a certain #11 showed up and made him look like a good NFL QB.

Roy is a unique athlete, here's what mariucci said about him on draft day after they'd picked him

"We’ve had Roy Williams ranked very, very high and you all know that. Most everybody did. We had him in here on a visit to get to know him even better. In the scouting and evaluation process, you take into consideration the measurables and the intangibles. The intangibles that we like about this guy: he’s a humble guy; he stayed in school to improve his skills and help his football team, I like that; he’s committed to getting better; he’s been training like crazy and all those things we really like about him. The measurables, when you start throwing his numbers around from track, and he’s not a track guy because he gave that up and said, ‘I’m going to be a football player.’ He’s a seven-foot high-jumper; he’s a 10.08 100-meter guy and he’s a 25.6 long-jump guy. He’s an incredible athlete with size and speed and he’s got some great hands. "

I think the 100 meter time is from highschool and quite frankly I don't believe he really ran a 10.08 that would have placed him 7th in the Olympic 100m final this year, sounds a bit too fast to me I suspect that's simply hype. But the difference athletically between the 2 is obvious.

Look we got a very good player, I just don't think we got the best player and I think that's being shown right now.