Spiderman has a heart problem??

LVCARDFREAK

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kerouac9 said:
Show me where I said that Fitz has the same amount of talent as Reggie Newhouse or Nate Poole. What I said was that I haven't seen him do anything more than what Poole or Karl Williams has been doing. You'd be disappointed if a #1 drafted runningback was only performing on the same level as Marcel Shipp. Well, right now, I don't see Larry Fitzgerald and all his talent doing anything that anyone else on the roster can't do. That's what's troubling to me. What has he done that's separated him from the rest of the WRs on the roster? Besides have a guaranteeed $15 million contract.

Libel is saying something that's untrue based on evidence. There's no evidence to suggest that Larry Fitzgerald has been the most ordinary of wide recievers over his first four games. Prove me wrong.

I didn't know that Fisher was cut. Too bad. I thought the kid had promise. When did this happen?


A few weeks back Fischer was cut. Check KFFL it is on there. Probably on AZ Cardinals.com as well.

I can live with the arguement you gave me above. I understand that part and agree he hasnt been 'spectacular'. I will say it is more an annomally than anything else and after three games wont condemn the kid. I think inpart it is because he has to still be favoring his ankle and because-well-...frankly, we suck ass on offense. This has gotten really bad. I think Fitz does need to step up his game and he would probably be the first to say that as well, but he cant carry them.

I cant prove you wrong on the ordinary WR part and I wont try. I just think instead of calling it "being sold a bill of goods" you might want to wait until at least 1 aspect of this offense can get on track: running game, passing game, offensive line, hell anything. That coupled with his ankle has got to be hurting him imo.
 

LVCARDFREAK

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Russ Smith said:
Don't get me wrong Jones has a lot of talent, but to me Jackson was the better RB.

Maybe he was, but not that much better to turn down the steal-they-got- from-the-Bills- better.
 

Russ Smith

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pete said:
OK, so you had a beef with the family relationship thing and now you are using the fact that another rookie WR has better stats after only 3 games to justify your position. I still think that is a pretty shortsighted view.

Given the state of the rest of the offense, I see no other player in the draft that would have more of an offensive impact than Fitz has had after 3 games. WR is not the problem. O line and QB are the problems right now and will continue to be the problem until they pull their heads out and start meeting expectations. It wouldn't make a difference if Roy Williams, Stephen Jackson, or any other player that the Cards could have selected were playing instead of Fitz. Until McCown and the O line start playing up to the expected level, the skill players don't have much of chance to play to their expected levels either and that goes for Fitz, Emmitt, BJ, Williams, and the rest. After all, it is a team sport, and offensively, the team sucks right now.

You have an innate ability to read things in that aren't there and miss things that are there.

Well before the draft, even before Mike Williams was ruled out, I was saying I thought Fitz was not the best WR, that if we took him, it would be a mistake.
That we should take Mike Williams, then when he was out, I said if we wanted a WR take Roy, my personal pick for ages was Sean Taylor, said it repeatedly.I liked Ben but it was clear we weren't taking him so I stopped mentioning him. I didn't just watch Roy against teh Eagles Sunday and decide we should have picked him, I said it all along.


I was also the first to point out that starting Josh would affect the WR's because if you look last year his 3 starts at the end of the year Quan's YPC numbers dropped immediately, even with a 10 catch for 122 yard game he had one 60 yarder and 9 other catches for 62 yards. The fact that the WR YPC number are off is no surprise to me.

What does surprise is hearing the radio guys in 2 games, say over and over Williams was open, or Poole was, or Jones was or Johnson, but never once hearing them say "if Josh had the time to look left Fitz was clearly open." The one game I saw on TV, NE, same thing, I don't recall a single shot showing him being open and being missed, just plays with him and Law locked up.

So when you read all through minicamp and camp people saying he's not getting open, and then you see it again in games, you start to wonder, at least I do.

The only acceptable reasons for his start are his ankle, or the QB and OL are so bad that he's open but not getting the ball. I don't hear anybody actually saying with conviction that the 2nd reason is true, they're saying MAYBE he'd be better if ....


I was born in Missouri, you gotta show me sometimes.
 

Russ Smith

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LVCARDFREAK said:
And LT had great college numbers and is a great NFL back

Ditto for Randy Moss

Ditto for Peyton Manning

Ditto for Marshall Faulk, Barry Sanders, and so on

Whats your point? That busts happen? Of course they do!

That WR's often put up huge numbers in college and don't make it in the pros.

For every Rice or Moss who does, there's a Walters or Edwards who didn't?

That the fact that he had 22 td catches last year at Pitt doesn't prove anything. He has great size, remarkable hands, great body control, and questionable speed and quickness, the last 2 are his problem right now.
 

LVCARDFREAK

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Russ Smith said:
That WR's often put up huge numbers in college and don't make it in the pros.

For every Rice or Moss who does, there's a Walters or Edwards who didn't?

That the fact that he had 22 td catches last year at Pitt doesn't prove anything. He has great size, remarkable hands, great body control, and questionable speed and quickness, the last 2 are his problem right now.

I am done with this arguement I think. It has been twisted around, slammed down, rolled up, etc, and we all still land on the same side of the fence.

I am not sure what the 22 td catches at Pitt dont prove? That he is good I guess? I dunno. He had great stats and was highly regarded. Right now it doesnt mean anything, but if you look back about 6 pages in this thread you will see the numbers I posted about where Fitz scored from on the field, how many plays over 20 yards, 30 yards, TD's over 50 yards etc. I think it at least proves he has the capability to make big plays!
 

kerouac9

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LVCARDFREAK said:
I think it at least proves he has the capability to make big plays!

Capacity to make big plays in college. So did Ridel Anthony. So did Shane Matthews.

The difference that you refuse to acknowledge is that Roy Williams has, in as little as three weeks, shown that he also has the capacity to make big plays in the NFL. Many big plays.

Larry Fitzgerald has shown that he can execute a trick play. That's it.
 

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What a thread and its only after 3 games!
 

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LVCARDFREAK said:
I
I am not sure what the 22 td catches at Pitt dont prove? That he is good I guess? I dunno. He had great stats and was highly regarded. Right now it doesnt mean anything, but if you look back about 6 pages in this thread you will see the numbers I posted about where Fitz scored from on the field, how many plays over 20 yards, 30 yards, TD's over 50 yards etc. I think it at least proves he has the capability to make big plays!

Agreed, we don't agree, I hope you're right and I'm wrong, better for the team.

Hey at least Pace made a big play last week that we can agree on. :)
 

kerouac9

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Russ Smith said:
Agreed, we don't agree, I hope you're right and I'm wrong, better for the team.

Hey at least Pace made a big play last week that we can agree on. :)

:thumbup:
 

LVCARDFREAK

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kerouac9 said:
Capacity to make big plays in college. So did Ridel Anthony. So did Shane Matthews.

The difference that you refuse to acknowledge is that Roy Williams has, in as little as three weeks, shown that he also has the capacity to make big plays in the NFL. Many big plays.

Larry Fitzgerald has shown that he can execute a trick play. That's it.

I have no problem with RW. Why do people keep saying that? He is good, he is great, whatever, He isnt on the Arizona Cardinals and we are discussing Fitz not RW ugggh

As far as Fitz I will allow you to second guess all you want while I watch Football. It is way to early to say Fitz doesnt have the capability to make big plays...come on K9. I could say the same thing about many players after 3 games. Of course liek I said, he is still on pace for 75 catches and 800 yards while he *struggles* :rolleyes:
 

LVCARDFREAK

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Russ Smith said:
Agreed, we don't agree, I hope you're right and I'm wrong, better for the team.

Hey at least Pace made a big play last week that we can agree on. :)


:thumbup: Right on Russ.

Now who is gonna start the 'Pace needs to be starting' thread?? me or you?? :D
 

kerouac9

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LVCARDFREAK said:
As far as Fitz I will allow you to second guess all you want while I watch Football. It is way to early to say Fitz doesnt have the capability to make big plays...come on K9. I could say the same thing about many players after 3 games. Of course liek I said, he is still on pace for 75 catches and 800 yards while he *struggles* :rolleyes:

I don't think that he doesn't have the capacity to make big plays. All I'm trying to say is that he hasn't shown that capacity at the NFL level to this point, while others (including Lee Evans) have. That's my point.

I said before that I'll be disappointed if Fitz fails to put up numbers equivalent to what Andre Johnson posted last season. Eerily similar situations, really. 900 yards and 4 TDs is not a high bar for a #3 overall pick. A. Johnson wasn't even mentioned in the ROY discussions last offseason.
 

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Russ Smith said:
What does surprise is hearing the radio guys in 2 games, say over and over Williams was open, or Poole was, or Jones was or Johnson, but never once hearing them say "if Josh had the time to look left Fitz was clearly open." The one game I saw on TV, NE, same thing, I don't recall a single shot showing him being open and being missed, just plays with him and Law locked up.

How many catches do you think RW would have had against Law and NE? Fitz did well in his first game and NE adjusted for that. He was also getting more attention than the other Card receivers in the Atlanta game which is why MCown threw the ball to them and not Fitz. The fact is, both Fitz and RW should be covered more since they both are the #1 WRs.

I was born in Missouri, you gotta show me sometimes.

Harrington - 6 TDs. McCown - 0. That is what has been shown so far. Kind of hard to score when your QB can't deliver the goods.
 

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This thread is Stupid, not everyones Boldin, Fitz is coming off an injury, I'm sure he was just hurting, let there be more than 3 games in a season before Fits is labeled a Tortoise that won't produce or decide if he plays with heart or not. He is a poseesion type WR in the Carter role, not the speedster Moss type Role
 

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pete said:
How many catches do you think RW would have had against Law and NE? Fitz did well in his first game and NE adjusted for that. He was also getting more attention than the other Card receivers in the Atlanta game which is why MCown threw the ball to them and not Fitz. The fact is, both Fitz and RW should be covered more since they both are the #1 WRs.



Harrington - 6 TDs. McCown - 0. That is what has been shown so far. Kind of hard to score when your QB can't deliver the goods.

And of course Roy has racked up his stats against creampuffs like Philly? Roy has played the Eagles, Texans and bears, Fitz the Rams(horrible secondary right now) New England(great secondary) and Falcons(arguably one of the 3 worst secondaries in the NFL last year and TORCHED by the Rams when they played them).

Let's look closer, week 1 Cedrick Wilson gets nearly 100 yards on them and Rattay and Dorsey combine for 286 yards passing. Week 2 Holt and Bruce BOTH go over 100 yards against them Bulger throws for 285. Week 3 us.

Now you're choosing to say that whole thing was Josh and the OL and not the WR's. THe Falcons had 3 sacks on SF and pressured both QB"s all day against a makeshift OL, week 2 they sacked the Rams 5 times, yet somehow in both games the opponents nearly reached 300 yards passing.

Josh is PART of the problem, so is Fitz, unless you think Mathis and Webster are lock down NFL CB's?

And again, 4 of Harrington's 6 TD's went to which WR?
 

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DevonCardsFan said:
This thread is Stupid, not everyones Boldin, Fitz is coming off an injury, I'm sure he was just hurting, let there be more than 3 games in a season before Fits is labeled a Tortoise that won't produce or decide if he plays with heart or not. He is a poseesion type WR in the Carter role, not the speedster Moss type Role

Bingo, and those type of WR's are usually not chosen 3rd overall in a WR deep draft and paid huge amounts of guaranteed money.
 

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pete said:
The only one he has left. :wave:

Sure it's not like Detroit has any other WR's with talent right?

I mean Tai Streets lucked into 7 TD catches last year. Az Hakim has no talent at all that's why Detroit overpaid to get him 2 years ago.

The Fact that RW had become Harringtons go to guy this quickly is due to RW's ability, not by default.

I'd argue Streets and Hakim combined are better than Johnson and Williams so by your logic Fitz should be getting the same results.
 

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The Fact that RW had become Harringtons go to guy this quickly is due to RW's ability, not by default.
It also has to do with Harrington locking onto one receiver. He's getting better, but he doesn't see the whole field yet.
 

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This_Guy said:
It also has to do with Harrington locking onto one receiver. He's getting better, but he doesn't see the whole field yet.

They had 7 guys with at least 20 catches last year and only one with 50 or more (54 Bryson at RB). Doesn't sound to me like he locks on.

And everyone here keeps saying that Josh is locking onto Fitz, thus the picks against NE.

There's a saying in science that goes like sometimes the best explanation IS the most obvious one. Seems pretty relevant with Roy Williams, maybe the reason he's played so well is, he's pretty good?
 

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