STAT calls Spurs "dirty"

[Bufalay]

Greetings Valley of the Suns, I have to say what a great team you have.
Don't let Amare's lack of seasoning sway you. This should 've been dealt with on the court and internally.
Having said that, I note a few things:

The reason the Spurs are hated is because quite simply...they win a lot. They play physical D. Back in the day, the no blood, no foul really existed.
So while everyone oohs and ahhs about the slick alley-oop, Spurs know that they need to play D and execute great in the half-court.

About Amare getting kneed in the crotch. The offensive player is allowed to attack the rim. He can jump, knee up to get himself towards the rim. That knee fends off would-be attackers who could try to block the shot. Most post players would take a knee to the chest or stomach or even hip-leg area, but your guy Amare', springs for legs and all, jumped high not dettered, but then took the hit-you know where. Was he mad? Sure but again, it's a legal play. The offensive player does not have to give up position.

Don't believe me? You think Manu attacking the rim with his knee up is a new thing made to counter Amare?

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That shot is taken Mid 70's, Dr. J on perennial ALL-D player ( and future teammate) Bobby Jones.

If Amare didn't want the knee, he could've backed off the play. That is why after that happened, Tim Duncan got in Stoudamire's grill and told him that what Ginobili did was a legitimate basketball play.
Do you need more proof that offensive players who attack the rim lift their front leg to fend off would-be defenders?

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What about this one where the knee already made contact with the defender?

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Or the way this guy attacks a rim?

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Or this guy?

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It was nothing like THIS:

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Truth be told,Amare did it to Kobe just like that pic above in that 1st round.

ya nice try looks like you are proving that manure's dirtyness is maloneworthy

 

[Greg Popovich]

We will agree to disagree.

I think one of the prior writers with the pictures actually makes the most compelling point. One picture is equal to 1000 words, as they say. Those photos showing Amare doing the same act which he now complains shows that his complaints against Manu is not only wrong, but actually counter-productive. If Gino goes off for 20 points against the Suns Saturday night, a lot of people will be second-guesing STAT's move of publicly labelling him as a dirt player.

 

[hsandhu]

We will agree to disagree.

I think one of the prior writers with the pictures actually makes the most compelling point. One picture is equal to 1000 words, as they say. Those photos showing Amare doing the same act which he now complains shows that his complaints against Manu is not only wrong, but actually counter-productive. If Gino goes off for 20 points against the Suns Saturday night, a lot of people will be second-guesing STAT's move of publicly labelling him as a dirt player.

I think he was off on ginobili. But you got to understand, amare was out a year with microfracture surgery on his knee, and had a scope on his other knee.

There was times he never thought he would be back again. You cant blame him for being very sensitive to bowen putting him in a position where he COULD have gotten hurt.

 

[JoRain]

I agree with your analysis. Manu's holding is not risking injury at all. Actually, Raja's clothlining was so carefully executed to not hurt Kobe, it's like from the WWW show. So, Amare's trying to call refs attention on various defensive tactics that are against the rule but tend to be overlooked by the refs, partially due to Spurs reputation as the best defensive team. It explains why he includes Manu here.

we'll i don't know about Manu's holding, but i do know that he too is a dirty player and he likes to injure oposing team's players, especially on international level !! and they always seems to be kinda important players to their teams. Last summer he got at least couple of guys !

 

[CardShark]

Amare warned Bowen about his play. No effect. He held off on retaliating or complaining to the officials because he wanted to take a closer look at it. I don't blame him for calling it for what it was through the media. It's the only chance he has of having it put to a stop. Would people rather wait until he's either hurt or tossed from the playoffs for beating the crap out of Bowen?

I can't fault Ginobli for the foot in the groin as I've seen Nash do it as well. The league would have to enact some kind of rule that keeps a players legs from extending past a certain point. I don't see that happening.

 

[CardShark]

we'll i don't know about Manu's holding, but i do know that he too is a dirty player and he likes to injure oposing team's players, especially on international level !! and they always seems to be kinda important players to their teams. Last summer he got at least couple of guys !

When Ginobli was holding Amare's legs, it should have been a foul. I don't know if he was trying to hurt him though.

 

[HooverDam]

The reason the Spurs are hated is because quite simply...they win a lot.

Quite simply, this is third grade level of thinking. Sorry holmes, I don't care how much they win, it has nothing to do with my distain for them. The Pistons have won a lot in recent years, I don't hate them, heck, I don't even hate or even dislike the Mavs (though I do dislike Dallas as a city, but thats another story).

Most Suns fans, and fans around the NBA hate the Spurs for the reasons they claim to hate the Spurs, because they don't play the game the right way. They are dirty, they are borderline cheaters, and furthermore they are about as much fun to watch as watching paint dry. When everyone says "I hate the Spurs because they are dirty and try to hurt people", why do you have to think its some sort of conspiracy to hide their real emotions?

Look, I congratulate the Spurs on their 2 1/2 NBA titles, I hope the Suns one day can hang banners in their gym, but I sure hope they never have to stoop to the level of thugs like Bruce Bowen.

Getting Manu revved up by press clippings is the last thing That STAT or the Suns fans should want.

I'm not at all worried about getting Manu 'revved up,' especially w/ Bell guarding him.

 

[AZBALLER]

not a fan of any of our guys starrting a war of words and name calling. All that does is let the Spurs know that whatever tactics they use ARE WORKING and getting under our skin, which is all those kind of tactics are used for - not to injure, but to frustrate and shake us off our game.

Our game is running and dunking. The tactics ARE WORKING as NOBODY wants to blow out a knee or break an ankle...Dirty is Dirty. If you pulled that crap on a public court, then you'd be in for an a$$ whoppin.

 

[Greg Popovich]

You can say whatever you want.

To anyone outside Phoenix, it looks like a lot of hot air. Sour grapes.

Fact is the Suns have yet to beat the Spurs in playoff competition. I think this frustration is what is driving this thread more than anything else.

Is this the year they climb the mountain.

We'll know in about a week.

 

[phxrising]

You can say whatever you want.

To anyone outside Phoenix, it looks like a lot of hot air. Sour grapes.

Fact is the Suns have yet to beat the Spurs in playoff competition. I think this frustration is what is driving this thread more than anything else.

Is this the year they climb the mountain.

We'll know in about a week.

I'm thinking that,
Seattle (Ray Allen)
New York (Steve Francis)
New Jersey (Vince Carter)
And Detroit (Rip Hamilton)
Would disagree.

 

[Gaddabout]

A lot has been made about Raja's clothes lining of Kobe (he was suspended for a game), but not much about some of the things Kobe did to Raja first. In any case, I do not believe Raja intended to hurt Kobe although he was clearly wrong.

Kobe was suspended for the flying elbow to Manu's jaw and Manu didn't understand all the fuss.

Raja's dirty, too. We can't look past that. He holds, grabs, pinches, bumps, all that other stuff that good defenders do. He's not as bad as Bowen, though. He doesn't drift into the shooter. He doesn't step on their feet or ankles.

 

[Greg Popovich]

I'm not at all worried about getting Manu 'revved up,' especially w/ Bell guarding him.[/quote]


Careful--you could wind up eating those words.

Manu has been doing poorly which has nothing to do with Bell.

If he gets hot--even Bell could get torched.

 

[TucsonDevil]

Kobe was suspended for the flying elbow to Manu's jaw and Manu didn't understand all the fuss.

Raja's dirty, too. We can't look past that. He holds, grabs, pinches, bumps, all that other stuff that good defenders do. He's not as bad as Bowen, though. He doesn't drift into the shooter. He doesn't step on their feet or ankles.

This is really the essence of it all. Dirty play is part of good defense... that would include holding the player when he doesn't have the ball and the refs can't see it, and things of that nature. It has the effect of slowing down your opponent and frustrating them - giving you an advantage.

However, Dangerous Dirty Play should have no part of the game. It risks injury to others. That crap has to stop! We have seen Bowen do it for a long time now and has never been punished for it. However, many others have been suspended for Dangerous dirty play - just last playoffs, Raja Bell and Jason Terry! So it is not unprecedented.

 

[CardShark]

You can say whatever you want.

To anyone outside Phoenix, it looks like a lot of hot air. Sour grapes.

Fact is the Suns have yet to beat the Spurs in playoff competition. I think this frustration is what is driving this thread more than anything else.

Is this the year they climb the mountain.

We'll know in about a week.

Am I mistaken? I thought the Suns won that game decisively.

 

[95pro]

Kobe was suspended for the flying elbow to Manu's jaw and Manu didn't understand all the fuss.

i've watched the video/tape on this one. i think kobe was frustrated w/ manu. manu goes for the block, but he follows all the way through with his arm and hits kobe on the head. i personally think it was intentional to follow all the way through and hit kobe's head.

Raja's dirty, too. We can't look past that. He holds, grabs, pinches, bumps, all that other stuff that good defenders do. He's not as bad as Bowen, though. He doesn't drift into the shooter. He doesn't step on their feet or ankles.

holding,grabbing, bumping...

its all part of the game.

but stepping on people's feet, kicking(knowingly and actually measuring up someone), and actually "letting"(purposely) people land on your feet so that they can tweak it is something else. amare needs to call up isiah, vin-sanity, and the two knicks up.

 

[Spursforever]

I wonder what Amare thinks he's gonna accomplish by going Mavs. Every impartial NBA guy who addressed the issue yesterday seemed to think that: 1. Bowen's a great defender. 2. Stoudemire is a whiner and not too smart for doing it. Oh well...

 

[Spursforever]

Am I mistaken? I thought the Suns won that game decisively.

Aren't you the guy who got shot by his own troops? A single game does not a series make. But either way, it is going to a tough one. I predict that the mentally tougher team will win in the end.

 

[fordronken]

Aren't you the guy who got shot by his own troops? A single game does not a series make. But either way, it is going to a tough one. I predict that the mentally tougher team will win in the end.

At least now when I wake up every day, I have one more person to be thankful that I'm not. You're a sad, pathetic person and I pity you.

 

[chickenhead]

As far as I'm concerned, intent to injure is different than a lot of the other shady plays that people bring up to justify it. Yes, some of the most successful players are the ones who can cheat without getting caught: who can perfect a push-off move that doesn't get called, who can walk without getting called, etc. That said, intent to injure is another thing entirely.

I also understand that people give players a pass who are on their team, for loyaly's sake or even because they like seeing someone stick it to another star that they may not like. Hell, I'm a big hockey fan, and I always loved the way Claude Lemieux turned it on in the playoffs. But he did go too far are a number of occasions, and there's no way I'd defend those incidents.

I just hope this means that the refs are going to keep an eye on this. I don't want anyone on either team to get hurt.

 

[Mike Olbinski]

Aren't you the guy who got shot by his own troops? A single game does not a series make. But either way, it is going to a tough one. I predict that the mentally tougher team will win in the end.

You are banned, you ignorant piece of garbage.

I don't care what you say about the Suns, but making a comment like that is freaking unbelievable.

 

[TucsonDevil]

You are banned, you ignorant piece of garbage.

I don't care what you say about the Suns, but making a comment like that is freaking unbelievable.

Good decision.

 

[island_dude]

Here's an opinion from an impartial point of view. I'm actually a Mavs fan, so originally I passed this off as Amare being a whiner, but after watching the video of the accusation, it's clear that Bowen's intent was to cause injury. I don't know if this link has already been posted but here it is.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sc4yz__akIU

No one with half a brain can watch this video and say Bowen didn't do this on purpose. He's been getting away with this crap for years and something has to be done about it. It would be a shame to see Amare get badly injured by some dirty underhanded tactic after what he's done to come back from the knee problems.

I just officially came on board with pulling for the Suns to win this series, and expose Bowen for the cheap shot artist he is!

GO SUNS!

 

[elindholm]

I just watched it for the first time. It looks to me like Bowen was going for a leg sweep rather than a kick. Even Bowen would know that it was all happening way to quickly to try to aim a kick precisely. And you don't rupture an Achilles by having it kicked anyway. I think he just wanted to upset Stoudemire's balance by interfering with his legs.

It was definitely a cheap and reckless play on which a foul should have been called, but it's hard to consider it an "intent" to injure.

Anyway, I hate the Spurs. They all do this, except maybe Parker, who seems cleaner than the rest.

 

[Covert Rain]

I just watched it for the first time. It looks to me like Bowen was going for a leg sweep rather than a kick. Even Bowen would know that it was all happening way to quickly to try to aim a kick precisely. And you don't rupture an Achilles by having it kicked anyway. I think he just wanted to upset Stoudemire's balance by interfering with his legs.

It was definitely a cheap and reckless play on which a foul should have been called, but it's hard to consider it an "intent" to injure.

Anyway, I hate the Spurs. They all do this, except maybe Parker, who seems cleaner than the rest.

I agree that I don't think he had time to think precisely about where to aim. It was clear he was trying to take a cheap shot regardless. It was a dirty play and the league needs to inform the Refs to keep a leash on Bowen for the rest of the series.

 

[Dback Jon]

I agree that I don't think he had time to think precisely about where to aim. It was clear he was trying to take a cheap shot regardless. It was a dirty play and the league needs to inform the Refs to keep a leash on Bowen for the rest of the series.

Yup - whether there was an intent to injure or not, he was delibrately trying to use his legs to hit amare - which could cause an injury, and is dirty.