Stoudemire agrees to five-year deal with Knicks

[dreamcastrocks]

I agree. To me, that's probably Amare's biggest weakness. So that begs the question, would David Lee play better team defense than Amare in the Suns lineup?

He might get us a few more rebounds per game......

 

[AzStevenCal]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/amare-stoudemire-knicks-are-perfectly-awful-match-070610

Great article by the way. Very fair.

Out of curiosity, what led you to apply the "very fair" label to this article. I thought it was riddled it with an anti New York bias. Also, how fair is it to imply limitations on Stat's ability by showing that Nash assisted on a high percentage of his baskets? Doesn't that also mean that Amare earned Nash a high percentage of his assists, and isn't that pretty much what you'd expect from a team game?

Steve

 

[chickenhead]

I agree. To me, that's probably Amare's biggest weakness. So that begs the question, would David Lee play better team defense than Amare in the Suns lineup?

The hope would be that Lee, playing in position, could outperform Amare as a team defender. And that Lopez would hopefully be able to contain some of the post-ups in Phoenix that Lee cannot contain out pf position in New York. Basically that Lee wouldn't allow some of the easy baskets that Amare's slow reactions do, and that his superior rebounding will be more effective on those lower percentage shots. But then, a lot of players should be able to accomplish what I've just described.

 

[devilalum]

Out of curiosity, what led you to apply the "very fair" label to this article. I thought it was riddled it with an anti New York bias. Also, how fair is it to imply limitations on Stat's ability by showing that Nash assisted on a high percentage of his baskets? Doesn't that also mean that Amare earned Nash a high percentage of his assists, and isn't that pretty much what you'd expect from a team game?

Steve

Fail

Nash has averaged the same number of assists his entire career but not all teams have a guy like Nash.

 

[elindholm]

Fail

Nash has averaged the same number of assists his entire career

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/steve_nash/career_stats.html

 

[AzStevenCal]

Fail

Nash has averaged the same number of assists his entire career but not all teams have a guy like Nash.

Talk about fail. May I suggest you search for facts before you jump in so authoritatively. Also, he had the luxury of playing with Dirk prior to Amare so even if they had remained roughly the same it would have said very little to the point in question. If NY gets Chris Paul will that automatically prove that Amare didn't need Nash to succeed? I don't think so.

Steve

 

[AfroSuns]

Out of curiosity, what led you to apply the "very fair" label to this article. I thought it was riddled it with an anti New York bias. Also, how fair is it to imply limitations on Stat's ability by showing that Nash assisted on a high percentage of his baskets? Doesn't that also mean that Amare earned Nash a high percentage of his assists, and isn't that pretty much what you'd expect from a team game?

Steve

Coming season is really going to be an interesting one. To the observant, the Nash/Amare combo is a symbiotic one and i cant wait to see what damage the disruption will have on both parties; No one as good as Nash to feed Amare the ball in NYC and Nash do not have a better finisher than Amare on this team, i just don't see Robin been remotely that good PnR when he is the focal point of the defense.

 

[Gaddabout]

For those that think Stoudemire is a much less offensive player without Nash, please see what he averaged the two years before Nash. Stoudemire was always going to be a prolific scorer.

 

[Louis]

For those that think Stoudemire is a much less offensive player without Nash, please see what he averaged the two years before Nash. Stoudemire was always going to be a prolific scorer.

Agreed. Not to mention the development of his jump shot.

Nash made things easier, but that doesn't discount either his or Amare's talents.

 

[Bufalay]

Fail

Nash has averaged the same number of assists his entire career but not all teams have a guy like Nash.

funny

 

[AfroSuns]

For those that think Stoudemire is a much less offensive player without Nash, please see what he averaged the two years before Nash. Stoudemire was always going to be a prolific scorer.

Agreed, recent case was Nash being out against OKC last season and Amare went on a tear. It is simple, if you don't have a big (or maybe two) you cant stop Amare from taking it to the hole, it is almost a guaranteed "and one".

 

[TJ]

For those that think Stoudemire is a much less offensive player without Nash, please see what he averaged the two years before Nash. Stoudemire was always going to be a prolific scorer.

This is true. The issue is how much of his production on the offensive side of the ball was inflated due to Steve Nash? If Stoudemire does not get a pg that can get him the ball, I dont think he'll enjoy as much success.

In addition, he is already trying to recruit point guards to the Knicks. Rumor has it he wants Luke Ridnour, calling him "Steve Nash lite" This tells me he understands the importance of having a quality pg for his game.

http://realgm.net/src_wiretap_archives/67925/20100707/source_amare_wants_ridnour_in_new_york/

 

[Louis]

If Stoudemire does not get a pg that can get him the ball, I dont think he'll enjoy as much success.

Not that it doesn't help him, but Amare has the skill and ability to get his scores without being set up by a PG. He has the speed to get by defenders and the power to do so as well. He has the jumper which gives him the advantage.

He'll get his. Especially if NY doesn't get anybody else this season, it wouldn't be surprising to see Amare flirt with a 30ppg average because of the increased touches he'll get which will also up his fta.

 

[devilalum]

Talk about fail. May I suggest you search for facts before you jump in so authoritatively. Also, he had the luxury of playing with Dirk prior to Amare so even if they had remained roughly the same it would have said very little to the point in question. If NY gets Chris Paul will that automatically prove that Amare didn't need Nash to succeed? I don't think so.

Steve

In 05-06 Amare played 3 games and Nash averaged 10.5 assists a game.

 

[SunsTzu]

In 05-06 Amare played 3 games and Nash averaged 10.5 assists a game.

Which is over 1apg less than he averaged the year before. The only 2 times Nash has failed to reach 11apg since rejoining the Suns were the years Amare missed significant time(granted Porter was a big factor as well).

Amare will see his FG% drop most likely but he'll still be one of the premier scoring big men.

 

[Ronin]

Agreed, recent case was Nash being out against OKC last season and Amare went on a tear. It is simple, if you don't have a big (or maybe two) you cant stop Amare from taking it to the hole, it is almost a guaranteed Amare will scream "and one"!

FTFY.

 

[Bufalay]

In 05-06 Amare played 3 games and Nash averaged 10.5 assists a game.

But Nash had Marion that year. There is no Marion this year.

 

[devilalum]

Which is over 1apg less than he averaged the year before. The only 2 times Nash has failed to reach 11apg since rejoining the Suns were the years Amare missed significant time(granted Porter was a big factor as well).

Amare will see his FG% drop most likely but he'll still be one of the premier scoring big men.

In 05-06 the Suns also ran a lot of the offense through Diaw who averaged 6.5 assists a game. That 1 assist is meaningless.

 

[devilalum]

But Nash had Marion that year. There is no Marion this year.

And what did Marion do after he went to a team that didn't have Nash to feed him? Marion couldn't create his own offense to save his life.

 

[Bufalay]

And what did Marion do after he went to a team that didn't have Nash to feed him? Marion couldn't create his own offense to save his life.

Ok, but that isn't the point. The point is that Nash needs finishers as much as finishers need Nash.

 

[AzStevenCal]

In 05-06 Amare played 3 games and Nash averaged 10.5 assists a game.

And this is relevant to what? Look at your statement that Nash has averaged the same number of assists his entire career and then look at how much lower his assist rate was with Dallas. You were wrong and now, apparently, you're in search of a tangential argument.

I wasn't trying to knock Nash. I was only pointing out that things don't occur in a vacuum. Amare benefitted from Steve Nash and I think it's absurd to argue otherwise but it's just as absurd to ignore the benefit that Nash derived from the presence of Amare.

Steve

 

[TJ]

Not that it doesn't help him, but Amare has the skill and ability to get his scores without being set up by a PG. He has the speed to get by defenders and the power to do so as well. He has the jumper which gives him the advantage.

He'll get his. Especially if NY doesn't get anybody else this season, it wouldn't be surprising to see Amare flirt with a 30ppg average because of the increased touches he'll get which will also up his fta.

I somewhat agree with you in that he has the ability to create his own offense. But it is undeniable to think that Nash was not a significant contributor to his success. For me, this will be a good barometer as to how much his stats were or were not inflated by having one of the best pgs ever. The P&R game was his bread and butter and certainly helped him get those "and 1s." Let's see how that all pans out.

 

[SunsTzu]

In 05-06 the Suns also ran a lot of the offense through Diaw who averaged 6.5 assists a game. That 1 assist is meaningless.

'04/'05 11.5apg
'05/'06 10.5apg
'06/'07 11.6apg

To say Amare benefited from Nash but Nash didn't benefit from Amare is just wrong imo. A 10% increase in production may not be huge but it is significant.

Like I said early Amare will see his FG% drop but he's still a premier scoring big man without Nash.

 

[Chaplin]

This is sort of an inane argument. I truly believe that Stoudemire will suffer without Nash and vice versa, but probably not as much as we would like.

An assist can only be credited on a made basket, so while Nash would be responsible for the delivery, there can be no assist unless Amare makes his shot. So both are responsible for a lot of each other's stats. The question is if both of them will continue without the other? I think Nash right now would fare better simply because he has better finishers around him now than Amare has passers.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Actually, I think Nash benefitted from an increased assist count but in other ways also. Nash threw a lot of questionable passes that would have been turnovers if it was just about anybody other than Amare on the receiving end.

Perhaps he wouldn't have tried those passes if Amare wasn't there so it may not have reduced his turnover count but attempting them and succeeding on them certainly added to his highlight films. Nash would still have been a great player but his exposure was greatly enhanced by Amare and that contributed considerably to his consecutive MVP awards.

Steve