Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
Slin's right. He has zero hops. He's not a rim protector. And most of his shots in summer league will be sent back in the pros.
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Slin's right. He has zero hops. He's not a rim protector. And most of his shots in summer league will be sent back in the pros.
Yes but Slin is the only one that brought up "rim protector". Prior to his comment I didn't see anybody make that claim?!!? He completely ignored he is average 15 PPG and being a good free throw shooter.
Not that ANY of that will translate at the next level. He said aside from rebounds which seemed like cherry picking. Why would rebounds translate but not points? I don't think you can really determine what will translate at this point. I think the point is, based on what we have seen...it would be nice to at least give him a look at the next level to see what he can do.
Chaplin
Better off silent
What's your definition of "rim protector"? If it's someone that gets tons of blocks, sure, ok, he's no rim protector. But if that definition includes taking up space in the paint and consistently challenging shots and getting defensive rebounds, then I think he can or has fit that bill.
CardsSunsDbacks
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It's someone that either blocks shots or alters shots. Williams does neither and when he is on the floor guys have no issue with the idea of going right over the top of him for layups.
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For a 3rd string big man, Williams does his job well. He controls the paint and uses his wide body well. He tends to rush his inside shots probably because he's worried about being blocked but all in all, he's a nice pickup for us.
Chaplin
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Agreed.
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Being 6'8 doesn't mean he can't be a rim protector.
Draymond Green is 6'7 and yet he's a rim protector. I don't know if he gets a ton of blocks but he sure as hell alters many shots at the rim and opposing players account for him when they drive at the rim. His ability to protect the rim and play the 5 is one of the biggest reasons the Warriors small ball works so well.
Errntknght
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I didn't actually say that Alan W. is a good rim protecter... I said his rim protection stats were very good, referring to the tracking data scored against stat. His percentage is 38. which is obviously great and his number of shots challenged is over 10 per 36min, also a very good number. The gnat in the unguetine is that its based on only 78 minutes of PT. What I said was he merits the chance to prove himself and slin came back with his lame "he's only 6'8" as if I wouldn't know that.
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I know one thing Alan Williams does well and that is rebound. He does not let opposing teams get many second shots at the basket. Rebounding is a valuable commodity in the NBA and it changes the game by not letting opponents get second shots at the basket. He is ferocious under the basket on defense. I'd like to keep him as a third center if possible.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
It's not his height that makes him a non-rim protector. It's his lack of height, lack of length, and inability to jump. Alan Williams looks like a good rebounder and maybe a good position defender in the post as he's got a load in his seat. But he will never be a rim protector and his offense is EXTREMELY limited because he lacks the footspeed to take anyone off the dribble, doesn't posses an outside shot, and is so earthbound that he can't score inside effectively. He has shown ability to get to the charity strike, but that's in summer league. In regular season I think his shot will get sent back consistently.
This is not to rip Alan Williams. Rather it's a pretty unbiased view of who he is and who he isn't.
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I don't know how the discussion morphed into whether Alan Williams is a rim protector. He is not, but he does occupy a lot of space under the basket which leads to rebounds. He is very aggressive on the boards. Watching the summer league games it is clear the Suns are a much better team with Williams on the court.
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Slin seemed to say that he was not a rim protector because he was 6'8. That was merely the point I was arguing. I'm not saying that Alan Williams is or isn't a rim protector.
Sunburn
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Maybe rim protector does not necessarily mean highlight shotblocking?
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
If you want to redefine the term, you can. But traditionally "rim protector" has meant shot blocker. You're playing with words a bit to include "highlight" to strengthen your argument. But rim protector means someone who blocks shots, or whose ability to block shots either results in altered shots or dissuading others to come into the paint to shoot for fear of being blocked.
Alan Williams is a big body who eats space in the post and collects rebounds. He is most assuredly not a "rim protector" by any sense of the phrase.
I don't know. I scoured the Internet for an official meaning and I found out two things. One it's debated much and two most people seem to hate the term because they find it nebulous. For me it appears that from a stat perspective you use opposing FG% and blocks to determine that. So I think both are a factor. The FG% at the rim wasn't for just any shot anywhere on the court but actually at the rim.
I have no skin in the game. I just think the definition isn't all that clear and both sides have a point. Just for me if you want to talk about blocks only you should say shot blocker to avoid confusion.
I have no skin in the game. I just think the definition isn't all that clear and both sides have a point. Just for me if you want to talk about blocks only you should say shot blocker to avoid confusion.
CardsSunsDbacks
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Nobody is trying to simplify it to just shot blocking, but the combination of blocking shots and altering shots. Sure Williams may have a good opponent fg% at the rim in this SL, but that's just it this is SL and it's a small sample size. Nothing about the way he plays inside would suggest he does a whole lot to alter shots.
Simplifying it would be just to use the term shot blocking. My point is that rim protector isn't as clear cut as some people are making it out be. I found about 4 forums in a matter of minutes having the same debate we are right now. I am looking at it from the definition of the stat. At any rate, doesn't matter this conversation got off track for something nobody was really arguing IMO to begin with.
The original point is that Williams is an interesting prospect that could be a future contributor. Saying he is only a rebounder while ignoring the other stuff he does on the court feels like a bit of cherry picking IMO.
devilalum
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So if you're a good weak side help shot blocker but a bad man defender with bad footwork can you be a rim protector?
from phone
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The Suns will have their hands full in the semi-finals today.
Dragon Bender is out today with a ankle sprain. Chriss is ill.
The game against Minnesota is at 3 p.m. on ESPN2.
Dragon Bender is out today with a ankle sprain. Chriss is ill.
The game against Minnesota is at 3 p.m. on ESPN2.
gmabel830
It's football season!!
Ulis is 3 for a 18 from the field today, with about 3 minutes left
gmabel830
It's football season!!
And right on queue after my post Ulis nails two buckets and is now 5 of 20
OP
OP
JCSunsfan
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Kind of difficult for one guy to do it all on his own.
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Ulis appeared tired today and never seemed to play up to his abilities. Maybe too many games in a row.
Troy Williams looked liked he could will the Suns to a win until he appeared to injure his ankle. Prior to this, he was so athletic and could do just about anything except hit a 3 point shot. He had 24 points and 6 rebounds.
Kuric did not do himself any favors with 3-11 shooting.
Alan Williams showed rebounding may not be enough.
A. Booker shot well from the field.
My takeaway. I particularly want the Suns to keep Troy Williams as he can make things happen. Kuric is also probably worth a look in training camp.
Troy Williams looked liked he could will the Suns to a win until he appeared to injure his ankle. Prior to this, he was so athletic and could do just about anything except hit a 3 point shot. He had 24 points and 6 rebounds.
Kuric did not do himself any favors with 3-11 shooting.
Alan Williams showed rebounding may not be enough.
A. Booker shot well from the field.
My takeaway. I particularly want the Suns to keep Troy Williams as he can make things happen. Kuric is also probably worth a look in training camp.
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Troy Williams has the potential to be a rotation player although obviously there are some Gerald Green like issues with him. Kuric isn't a rotation player IMO more like a Dionte Christmas. I just think he makes more sense than continuing to waste time with Goodwin. I think we've burned our bridges there even if he does finally learn the game and he's clearly unhappy so why keep him around?
