Suns 2024-2025 Season Discussions

[Ronin]

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[Ronin]

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[Ronin]

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[Ronin]

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[Ronin]

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[Mainstreet]

The comments below, made by Mat Ishbia in May, haven't aged well.


By Kellan Olson, Arizona Sports, 5-1- 2024:

Ishbia was asked to assess the moves he’s made with accountability in mind, a question surely focused primarily on the Kevin Durant trade but also the others made last offseason.

“I feel really great about all the things we’ve done in 15 months. The outcome of this year’s playoff series and last year’s playoff series, let’s take those two things out of there, besides that I feel like we’ve made a lot of amazing decisions,” Ishbia said, going on to clarify those are team decisions and not just his before rattling off some of Phoenix’s correctly labeled decisions to upgrade the franchise off the court.

“You look back at some of the trades that James and all of us were part of. We do those things 100 out of 100 times. Not 99 out of 100, 100 out of 100 and we’d still do them again and I think the other 29 GMs would all do the same exact thing.”

Suns remain confident, paint picture beyond bleak end to season

The Phoenix Suns officially concluded the 2023-24 season with a strange end-of-season availability for Mat Ishbia and James Jones.

arizonasports.com

 

[Hoop Head]

The comments below, made by Mat Ishbia in May, haven't aged well.


By Kellan Olson, Arizona Sports, 5-1- 2024:

Ishbia was asked to assess the moves he’s made with accountability in mind, a question surely focused primarily on the Kevin Durant trade but also the others made last offseason.

“I feel really great about all the things we’ve done in 15 months. The outcome of this year’s playoff series and last year’s playoff series, let’s take those two things out of there, besides that I feel like we’ve made a lot of amazing decisions,” Ishbia said, going on to clarify those are team decisions and not just his before rattling off some of Phoenix’s correctly labeled decisions to upgrade the franchise off the court.

“You look back at some of the trades that James and all of us were part of. We do those things 100 out of 100 times. Not 99 out of 100, 100 out of 100 and we’d still do them again and I think the other 29 GMs would all do the same exact thing.”

Suns remain confident, paint picture beyond bleak end to season

The Phoenix Suns officially concluded the 2023-24 season with a strange end-of-season availability for Mat Ishbia and James Jones.

arizonasports.com

I bolded the main issue that I think people need to come to grips with, myself included. Ishbia does not seem to care about the playoffs. He wants to get there but to dismiss those outcomes so flippantly tells me he's locked into 50 and Fade.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I bolded the main issue that I think people need to come to grips with, myself included. Ishbia does not seem to care about the playoffs. He wants to get there but to dismiss those outcomes so flippantly tells me he's locked into 50 and Fade.

It's possible but I took it a different way. To me, he's a man in denial and there's no way to spin those outcomes to fit his narrative so he's convinced himself they were outliers.

 

[GatorAZ]

I bolded the main issue that I think people need to come to grips with, myself included. Ishbia does not seem to care about the playoffs. He wants to get there but to dismiss those outcomes so flippantly tells me he's locked into 50 and Fade.

Those comments were made last May. There’s no way a guy spending $300m on this team and not being pissed off and embarrassed about it is possible. He’s stubborn and proud but he’s got to be smart enough to this current product can’t continue past this season.

 

[GatorAZ]

When all is said and done, the KD trade will probably be the costliest one in NBA history… I don’t think we’re going to get similar value from any potential Booker trade.

.
Clippers received: Paul George

Thunder received: Danilo Gallinari, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, 2021 first-round pick (became Tre Mann- then traded for All-Star forward Gordon Hayward, guard Vasilije Micic, forward Davis Bertans and two second-round picks), 2022 first-round pick (became Jalen Williams), 2023 first-round pick which is now a first round 2025 protected/2026 unprotected from the Miami Heat (for Jaime Jaquez Jr.), 2023 first-round pick swap, 2024 first-round draft pick (became Dillon Jones), 2025 first-round pick swap, 2026 first-round pick

 

[Hoop Head]

Those comments were made last May. There’s no way a guy spending $300m on this team and not being pissed off and embarrassed about it is possible. He’s stubborn and proud but he’s got to be smart enough to this current product can’t continue past this season.

Sure, he may be unhappy but what's the alternative right now? Pulling the plug entirely to hand over top picks would be an admittance the KD trade was a failure and huge mistake.

.
Clippers received: Paul George

Thunder received: Danilo Gallinari, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, 2021 first-round pick (became Tre Mann- then traded for All-Star forward Gordon Hayward, guard Vasilije Micic, forward Davis Bertans and two second-round picks), 2022 first-round pick (became Jalen Williams), 2023 first-round pick which is now a first round 2025 protected/2026 unprotected from the Miami Heat (for Jaime Jaquez Jr.), 2023 first-round pick swap, 2024 first-round draft pick (became Dillon Jones), 2025 first-round pick swap, 2026 first-round pick

And Kawhi wasn't signing in LA unless they added PG13. So it's not quite as lopsided as it initially appears. I knew SGA was a baller but I don't think anyone envisioned him as an MVP candidate.

I believe the Brooklyn/Boston deal involving KG, Pierce, and others is the most lopsided in recent history. That landed Boston Tatum and Brown, which is their championship core.

 

[GatorAZ]

Sure, he may be unhappy but what's the alternative right now? Pulling the plug entirely to hand over top picks would be an admittance the KD trade was a failure and huge mistake.



And Kawhi wasn't signing in LA unless they added PG13. So it's not quite as lopsided as it initially appears. I knew SGA was a baller but I don't think anyone envisioned him as an MVP candidate.

I believe the Brooklyn/Boston deal involving KG, Pierce, and others is the most lopsided in recent history. That landed Boston Tatum and Brown, which is their championship core.

We’re talking hindsight here. Kawhi and George won like 3 playoff series in five years. OKC is surpassing that this year.

 

[Hoop Head]

We’re talking hindsight here. Kawhi and George won like 3 playoff series in five years. OKC is surpassing that this year.

That's 2 more than we have.

The PG trade was done to land Kawhi, who is still there. He's not playing, sure, but I believe he's on an extension now or will be next season. They've almost finished paying their debt. We've barely begun. I don't see that deal as lopsided considering it enabled LA to get 2 All-Star's and also opened the door for them to land Harden. That would be like us trading all we did to land KD and Booker, which didn't happen. We had Booker and didn't have to make the KD deal to appease him.

 

[Phrazbit]

.
Clippers received: Paul George

Thunder received: Danilo Gallinari, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, 2021 first-round pick (became Tre Mann- then traded for All-Star forward Gordon Hayward, guard Vasilije Micic, forward Davis Bertans and two second-round picks), 2022 first-round pick (became Jalen Williams), 2023 first-round pick which is now a first round 2025 protected/2026 unprotected from the Miami Heat (for Jaime Jaquez Jr.), 2023 first-round pick swap, 2024 first-round draft pick (became Dillon Jones), 2025 first-round pick swap, 2026 first-round pick

That’s a bad one, but I think the draft value is going to end up a lot uglier in the KD trade.

 

[GatorAZ]

That's 2 more than we have.

The PG trade was done to land Kawhi, who is still there. He's not playing, sure, but I believe he's on an extension now or will be next season. They've almost finished paying their debt. We've barely begun. I don't see that deal as lopsided considering it enabled LA to get 2 All-Star's and also opened the door for them to land Harden. That would be like us trading all we did to land KD and Booker, which didn't happen. We had Booker and didn't have to make the KD deal to appease him.

The Kawhi era was a disaster he’s literally never been healthy for a playoff run. There’s still two and half years left on his contract.

SGA is a top-5 player and the catalyst of a west giant for the foreseeable future. Can’t believe you’re arguing this.

 

[hcsilla]

It might be too harsh and/or too early but when will Budenholzer need to take some responsibility for the serious trouble that the Suns are in?

I take a look on the Clippers for example and I see a group of players with much less talent than the Suns have and yet playing much better.

 

[Mainstreet]

It might be too harsh and/or too early but when will Budenholzer need to take some responsibility for the serious trouble that the Suns are in?

I take a look on the Clippers for example and I see a group of players with much less talent than the Suns have and yet playing much better.

If the Suns hadn't just changed coaches, a coaching and/or GM change would be the next logical step considering they have few options left short of blowing up the team. However, such a change may not happen until the off season although I could see a surrogate in the interim by another title.

 

[Covert Rain]

It might be too harsh and/or too early but when will Budenholzer need to take some responsibility for the serious trouble that the Suns are in?

I take a look on the Clippers for example and I see a group of players with much less talent than the Suns have and yet playing much better.

You mean the coach that has yet to have a healthy team? The Suns knew what kind of system he ran and knew it required specific horses to run. It’s not his fault he has yet to have all those horses for any normal stretch.

I will hold out judging him until he has such a stretch because the small sampling he did have? They had a good record.

 

[Hoop Head]

The Kawhi era was a disaster he’s literally never been healthy for a playoff run. There’s still two and half years left on his contract.

SGA is a top-5 player and the catalyst of a west giant for the foreseeable future. Can’t believe you’re arguing this.

KawhI signed an extension. The era there hasn't been good but compare it to the Suns with KD and which is better? They have a WCF run under their belt, we don't. So anything short of a WCF appearance makes their deal better. Kawhi hasn't been healthy but you want to use that as a measuring stick of success? He didn't tear his Achilles before going there. He was coming off leading the Raptors to a title. It was a much more reasonable gamble. He was a Finals MVP for 2 different teams. What did KD do in Brooklyn?

Ask anyone other than a Suns fan which was the worse move, Clippers bringing in Kawhi & PG or the KD trade and it's easily the KD trade. I never said the Kawhi/PG deal was great or it panned out either. It made more sense though. What have the Suns done better than the Clippers over the course of those runs? Again, the Clips made their first WCF appearance. Until the Suns do the same, we got the worst payout.

 

[hcsilla]

You mean the coach that has yet to have a healthy team? The Suns knew what kind of system he ran and knew it required specific horses to run. It’s not his fault he has yet to have all those horses for any normal stretch.

I will hold out judging him until he has such a stretch because the small sampling he did have? They had a good record.

I don't know. Even considering their injuries the Suns are heavily underachieving, IMO.

The wins are close and unconvincing, the losses are hopeless.

 

[Phrazbit]

The Kawhi era was a disaster he’s literally never been healthy for a playoff run. There’s still two and half years left on his contract.

SGA is a top-5 player and the catalyst of a west giant for the foreseeable future. Can’t believe you’re arguing this.

The Durant era's high point is probably going to be beating a (George and Leonard lacking) Clippers team in the first round.

Giving up SGA and those picks is brutal but we have hardly even begun to pay the debt and it's doubtful that we compete for anything for a long while.

We gained nothing... absolutely nothing by trading for KD, and the cost will likely be, even the idea of, competitive basketball for a decade.

The PG trade was unquestionably horrific, but at least the Clips made a conference final, their team actually IMPROVED for a time and their draft deficit will like likely pail in comparison to our own.

 

[Hoop Head]

It might be too harsh and/or too early but when will Budenholzer need to take some responsibility for the serious trouble that the Suns are in?

I take a look on the Clippers for example and I see a group of players with much less talent than the Suns have and yet playing much better.

There's a reason Budenholzer was brought in and paid almost twice what Vogel was. He's a fall guy and knew it. He and his agent worked the Suns front office. The issue here isn't a coaching issue. We've now had 2 championship coaches here and neither can make this collection of players care. You can't coach desire.

 

[Germz249]

There's a reason Budenholzer was brought in and paid almost twice what Vogel was. He's a fall guy and knew it. He and his agent worked the Suns front office. The issue here isn't a coaching issue. We've now had 2 championship coaches here and neither can make this collection of players care. You can't coach desire.

This is why I feel we should trade away everything that isn’t bolted down and start fresh or burn through all our picks and try to bring in more big name players and hope it works.

I am just fed up with how we have these big name players and can’t even do much. I would even go as far as trading away Booker. He is a good player but not a leader. Our big three aren’t the leader type. They are just good individual players.

 

[hcsilla]

There's a reason Budenholzer was brought in and paid almost twice what Vogel was. He's a fall guy and knew it. He and his agent worked the Suns front office. The issue here isn't a coaching issue. We've now had 2 championship coaches here and neither can make this collection of players care. You can't coach desire.

I somewhat agree and I like Budenholzer as a coach and leader but still when a team keeps playing with nearly zero effort then sooner or later the coach's responsibilty needs to be brought up.

 

[Hoop Head]

I somewhat agree and I like Budenholzer as a coach and leader but still when a team keeps playing with nearly zero effort then sooner or later the coach's responsibilty needs to be brought up.

I like Budenholzer also. I don't blame him for the results. We have essentially the same winning percentage we did at this time last year, with similar health to the Big 3. This team is built horribly. Budenholzer saw what happened to Vogel here and knew what would happen if there weren't big improvements so he got his if he was going to be scapegoated also.

I think we'll see how much, if any, power Bud has regarding the roster by the trade deadline. If a big move isn't made, then he's simply along for the ride. I'd think that's a shame because he is a good coach but the players here are nothing like he had success with in Milwaukee or Atlanta. In Milwaukee he had a team built around a star in Giannis, who was a DPOY candidate as well as offensive beast, and we don't have that. In Atlanta he had a team that played their roles for each other and we clearly don't have that. We have a bunch of hired guns looking for paydays or guys "just hooping". Ego is a massive problem here and we can't fix it unless we remove the biggest ego, IMO.