Suns at Knicks 1/21

[Ollie]

I honestly think that amares knee might be starting to go, he just gets more and more lazy.

Ditto.

I don't know if it's whether his microfracture surgery warranty that expires sooner than expected, or if it's his right knee (the one that was scoped 2 years ago) that starts to break up and needs the same surgery.

Either that or he tries to force a trade out of Phoenix, because his body language is atrocious. Anyway, that doesn't smell too good.

 

[elindholm]

I honestly think that amares knee might be starting to go, he just gets more and more lazy.

I called this about ten days ago, and it seems to be getting more obvious with every game. Unless the Suns are looking like (marginal) contenders in March, I don't expect to see Stoudemire finish the season on the active roster.

 

[nowagimp]

For a guy who "doesnt play his bench" DA sure got alot of production out of the bench, 55 pts going 9 deep(18 mins or more). I can't really blame porter for the lack of bench play(56 total mins vs 99 by the knicks), as his bench stunk. I suppose if DA had robin lopez on his bench, he would have sat.

 

[nowagimp]

I honestly think that amares knee might be starting to go, he just gets more and more lazy.

Im not sure I buy that one. Amare is a head case, needs someone to stroke his ego, and needs to be the man. His behavior and body language suggest more that he does not believe the coaching approach. When Amare gets burnt on defense, he psychologically needs to take the ball back against his man or lose his self respect. This is what you get for having a man child on your team. DA was probably amares best scenario, the SSOL showed him to be better than he is as he may be the best PF in transition, but is not a very good back to the basket player. Adapting amare to be an almost exclusively half court player didnt make sense to me with the knees, more physical grinding is not good for those.

 

[Skumbag]

I'm still laughing my ass off about Amar'e grabbing just as many rebounds as Nate Robinson... LOL

 

[NastyOne]

Amare knees are fine, just like most superstars with big egos he needs to feel like he matters. And thats not happening in this offense under Porter. So its pretty clear Amare is half assing it cause hes frustrated.

Everything runs through Nash and Shaq and Amare is probably now feeling like just a role player when this should probably be his team by now.

The coaching staff just needs to get him motivated again by letting more of the offense run through him.

 

[Covert Rain]

The coaching staff just needs to get him motivated again by letting more of the offense run through him.

We were doing that earlier in the season and struggling. Plus teams have figured out the pick and roll which is Amare's bread and butter. Amare has no inside game unless he dunks. You can't build a title contending team around that type of player.

Shaq>Amare around the paint. If we all of the sudden ran everything through Amare, then you render Shaq useless except on rebounding. Your also giving up easy points in the paint that Shaq usually gets you. No thanks...been there done that. This is not a couple years ago when nobody could figure out how to stop Amare and Nash on the pick and roll.

 

[NastyOne]

We were doing that earlier in the season and struggling. Plus teams have figured out the pick and roll which is Amare's bread and butter. Amare has no inside game unless he dunks. You can't build a title contending team around that type of player.

Shaq>Amare around the paint. If we all of the sudden ran everything through Amare, then you render Shaq useless except on rebounding. Your also giving up easy points in the paint that Shaq usually gets you. No thanks...been there done that. This is not a couple years ago when nobody could figure out how to stop Amare and Nash on the pick and roll.

The reason teams are shutting down the pick and roll is because Amare is no longer at Center surrounded by shooters when we run that play.

We are tying to fit Shaq into this system and its not working. Nothing looks smooth out there anymore.

 

[nowagimp]

The reason teams are shutting down the pick and roll is because Amare is no longer at Center surrounded by shooters when we run that play.

We are tying to fit Shaq into this system and its not working. Nothing looks smooth out there anymore.

Yeah no kidding. But I doubt many here will see or understand that. Its easier to just bash players when they let you down. Anyone who appreciates the key of ball movement knows this team has some serious issues that have little to do with amares "eroding skills". I hope we just dont give him away.

 

[Covert Rain]

The reason teams are shutting down the pick and roll is because Amare is no longer at Center surrounded by shooters when we run that play.

We are tying to fit Shaq into this system and its not working. Nothing looks smooth out there anymore.

That wouldn't explain why teams are shutting down the pick and roll with Shaq out of the lineup. Did you see the last game Shaq sat out? Dalls, Boston, Memphis and Atlanta all did the same thing. They would rotate a player out to Amare whenever Nash drives to stop the pick and roll. The Lakers and Spurs have been using the same strategy against the Suns the last 2 playoff years.

Now teams are starting to copy cat. That has nothing to do with Shaq. It's happening even when Shaq is not on the floor. Amare needs to develop a back to the basket game.

Yeah no kidding. But I doubt many here will see or understand that. Its easier to just bash players when they let you down. Anyone who appreciates the key of ball movement knows this team has some serious issues that have little to do with amares "eroding skills". I hope we just dont give him away.

Those issues would be turnovers and defense. Amare is front and center with both.

 

[cly2tw]

That wouldn't explain why teams are shutting down the pick and roll with Shaq out of the lineup. Did you see the last game Shaq sat out? Dalls, Boston, Memphis and Atlanta all did the same thing. They would rotate a player out to Amare whenever Nash drives to stop the pick and roll. The Lakers and Spurs have been using the same strategy against the Suns the last 2 playoff years.

Now teams are starting to copy cat. That has nothing to do with Shaq. It's happening even when Shaq is not on the floor. Amare needs to develop a back to the basket game.

Those issues would be turnovers and defense. Amare is front and center with both.

Confounding the issue more is Nash's inability to split the zoning in, shadowing kind of double coverage while they were sending a third guy to cover Amare. With any kind of athletics like Duhon has, he'd be able to drive through the gap and punish this quazi 3 on 2 defense on the perimeter. Meanwhile, there is no space gain but more likely turnovers coming out of the Nash/Amare pNr, indeed. Well, unless the defense of the opponents suck big time like in case of Raptors.

As to developing a back-to-basket game, it will take time. Right now, he has only some drilled moves developed without a defender. He'd just do his routine without feeling the defender with his back the good post-up players do. He needs at least a whole off-season to learn it with wresting with good wrestlers for positions, like what Rodman acted like getting his rebounds back then. It'll take time, but meanwhile, he could still use his face-up game to be useful for the offense without Shaq and Nash. At least, most teams honor that with often quick double teaming. Before the recent shooting slumps of his, he was directing the ball quite well out of that position. Well, the team just doesn't go to him very often.

 

[NastyOne]

That wouldn't explain why teams are shutting down the pick and roll with Shaq out of the lineup. Did you see the last game Shaq sat out? Dalls, Boston, Memphis and Atlanta all did the same thing. They would rotate a player out to Amare whenever Nash drives to stop the pick and roll. The Lakers and Spurs have been using the same strategy against the Suns the last 2 playoff years.

Now teams are starting to copy cat. That has nothing to do with Shaq. It's happening even when Shaq is not on the floor. Amare needs to develop a back to the basket game.

When the pick and roll was working at its best for us Amare was at center with shooters all over the floor.

Even when Shaq is out Amundson or Lopez are in with Amare. And before them it was Diaw earlier this season. None of these players can spread the floor cause none have respectable outside shots.

When Marion was at PF you had to atleast account for him cause even though he wasnt a great shooter he could still knock down the open jumper. Even Kurt Thomas had a reliable jumper.

Thats what we need to get back to. Someone like Rasheed Wallace or Mehmet Okur would do wonders for this offense. A bigman that you cant cheat away from cause he can kill you from outside.

 

[cly2tw]

When the pick and roll was working at its best for us Amare was at center with shooters all over the floor.

Even when Shaq is out Amundson or Lopez are in with Amare. And before them it was Diaw earlier this season. None of these players can spread the floor cause none have respectable outside shots.

When Marion was at PF you had to atleast account for him cause even though he wasnt a great shooter he could still knock down the open jumper. Even Kurt Thomas had a reliable jumper.

Thats what we need to get back to. Someone like Rasheed Wallace or Mehmet Okur would do wonders for this offense. A bigman that you cant cheat away from cause he can kill you from outside.

Well, with the 3 on 2 shadowing defense of Nash-Amare pNr, there is just no path for passing the ball out easily. Partly because Amare's defenders are very big and can cover a lot of space. Review the cases and see it for yourself. So, one more shooter wouldn't help if you can't deliver the passer being sacked in the upper corners.

 

[Mainstreet]

Did anyone notice how Amare had weak handles on the ball near the basket against NY? These were not ordinary TOs (IMO) but due seemingly to a lack of strength or bad hands... which I never thought he had.

 

[Covert Rain]

When the pick and roll was working at its best for us Amare was at center with shooters all over the floor.

That also means we were playing small ball and that doesn't win a title. So basically, to make Amare effective again we have to return to small ball????? No thanks.

Even when Shaq is out Amundson or Lopez are in with Amare. And before them it was Diaw earlier this season. None of these players can spread the floor cause none have respectable outside shots.

OK, that might explain why he has been running into a crowded lane more often. However, that doesn't explain why Amare can't hold on to the ball. That doesn't explain why Amare has been missing so many shots when driving on opponants. That doesn't explain why Amare has been well defended by average players lately 1 on 1.

When Marion was at PF you had to atleast account for him cause even though he wasnt a great shooter he could still knock down the open jumper. Even Kurt Thomas had a reliable jumper.

Again as stated above, we were also playing small ball. Going back to the small ball just to accomodate one player on your team doesn't sound like a title winning plan to me. Amare was playing Center then and was far worse defensively. Look at his Opponent Per playing Center then to it now going back to his normal PF. Amare is a better defender at PF then Center.

Thats what we need to get back to. Someone like Rasheed Wallace or Mehmet Okur would do wonders for this offense. A bigman that you cant cheat away from cause he can kill you from outside.

Even if you could get your hands on a "true" center that can shoot the 3 (fat chance), it doesn't resolve Amares defensive woes and it doesn't resolve Amare's turnover problem and it doesn't resolve Amare's rebounding woes.

Honestly, Amare's offensive woes are only something that has been creeping up lately and is not the teams main problem. This team still scores with the best in the NBA.

Defense is the problem.

 

[nowagimp]

When the pick and roll was working at its best for us Amare was at center with shooters all over the floor.

Even when Shaq is out Amundson or Lopez are in with Amare. And before them it was Diaw earlier this season. None of these players can spread the floor cause none have respectable outside shots.

When Marion was at PF you had to atleast account for him cause even though he wasnt a great shooter he could still knock down the open jumper. Even Kurt Thomas had a reliable jumper.

Thats what we need to get back to. Someone like Rasheed Wallace or Mehmet Okur would do wonders for this offense. A bigman that you cant cheat away from cause he can kill you from outside.

Yup, Rasheed or okur could open things up a bit. Problem is that amare, like shaq needs to play with a good defender at the 5/4 and okur and an old rasheed might not be that guy. If the suns can figure out how to use amare, someone else will when he opts out. The suns management has something to prove, unfortunately they have made a series of personnel changes that havent shaken out yet, but appear on the surface to have created a chemistry problem. Right now it doesnt look too good, but I wouldnt evaluate the value of any one player based on team performance in a new system.

 

[Rogue]

suns win