Suns at Lakers 3-22-11

[FArting]

One of the best Suns vs Lakers game I have ever seen

 

[Mainstreet]

Brooks does seem to play much better when he is looking to score first. Also last night, running 2 point guards really gave us some boost. I think Lopez could do well with that unit if he kept rebounds and defense on his mind. Nash and Gortat play so well together, I hope they share more time on the court, with Mr.Cutch....Channing Frye.

Here is an interesting quote from Bob Young's article dated 3-23-11 at azcentral:

View from the press box

Suns coach Alvin Gentry has shown in the past that he trusts his players. And when he found that Aaron Brooks was struggling when Gentry called plays for him, he told Brooks to call his own plays. Brooks credited that freedom for his season-high 25-point effort as he was able to get into plays more quickly and maintain a flow in the offense.

Maybe Gentry is just now finding out how to use Brooks... let Brooks call his own plays. This may explain why Brooks has struggled to play the same way he did last season in Houston. If true, this bodes well for the future.

 

[sunsfan88]

On Gambo & Ash this morning they asked why Gentry left Carter late in the game against LA despite him playin like sh**, Gentry responded that he thought VC was going to hit his shots because "VC has been there" in a tight game before.

Lol if thats his reasoning then he would probably give the ball to Shaq in crunch time and say "he's been here before." Please get Gentry the hell out of PHX....sent Carter and Lopez with him!
​

 

[Evil Ash]

You hit it on the nose. That is the main point.

Minimizing incompetence fulfills mediocrity.

But maximizing strength fulfills excellence.

Despite the Suns not being a balanced team, if Gentry had coached to get the maximum out of each position since the trade, we'd be in the playoffs.

Specifically, start Gortat in order to not have to overcome deficits from the start, and be able to rest Nash after his alloted minutes, rather than needing him at the end of each game.

As desertdog reported in great detail:



Use Lopez off the bench to go against other NBA backups and give Gortat breathers after twelve minutes of play. If he can't keep up with other backups, he should be in the D-League.

But, start Carter to see if he has it in the the 1st quarter that night, then bring in Dudley as our main Shooting Guard 'til the end of the game, with a few rests when needed.

Yes, I'm advocating reversing the roles of Lopez (a young guy showing no learning skills at the Center position) and Carter (an old guy whose skills have diminished at the Wing) because it would made the team stronger.

Whether you agree or disagree with these assessments, they are no less legitimate than the status quo. And the status quo has just about eliminated us from the playoffs.

The only rationale of the status quo is tanking. I am one Suns fan who does not accept that.

1) It is too late to make changes in the lineup. Changes would lead to adjustments. Adjustments take time. Time we do not have

2) We are 15-5 in our last 20 games with this lineup when everyone is healthy. We've been running at a 70% winning percentage since the trade has occured and everyone has found their roles. If that is your definition of tanking, you're an idiot

3) The CAUSE for us missing the playoffs this season has little to do with the current lineup and is largely due to a huge amount of mishaps that were made in the offseason (ie Hedo Turkoglu). We've done well since the trade - see point 2 - but it is simply too late in a stacked western conference.

4) You continually bring up the point of Gortat being exhausted when that has been proven wrong time and time again. Gortat lit up the Raptors quite well after that 53 mins he played the night before. He's 26 years old and had barely played at all prior to this season, his basketball legs are just fine.

Is Gortat better than Lopez? Absolutely yes

Would I start him if we had enough time or were in a better position? Again absolutely yes

Is Lopez starting the reason we're going to miss the playoffs? No, No, Hell No. Unfortunately for us we are getting almost zero production from the SG position and backup PF (what no one is talking about since you know people are so obsessed with the Lopez/Gortat debate is that Frye has been playing more mins than anyone on our roster including the Laker triple OT game because Warrick has gone backward). We wouldn't have gone undefeated with Gortat no matter how many times you tell yourself this.

 

[elindholm]

1) It is too late to make changes in the lineup. Changes would lead to adjustments. Adjustments take time. Time we do not have

2) We are 15-5 in our last 20 games with this lineup when everyone is healthy...

(etc.)

This is an excellent rebuttal, but you didn't address his other ridiculous point, which is that bringing Gortat off the bench is doing long-term damage to his psyche and thereby undermining the Suns' short-term quest for a championship, which otherwise would begin in earnest, oh, any minute now.

 

[Manu4five]

As an outsider it's obvious that Gortat is your best center and should start. RoLo might be good enough to be a backup C or he might not quite make it.

 

[BC867]

One of my points.

Specifically, start Gortat in order to not have to overcome deficits from the start, and be able to rest Nash after his alloted minutes, rather than needing him at the end of each game.

One of your responses to my post.

... you're an idiot.

 

[AzStevenCal]

One of my points.


One of your responses to my post.

You took that well out of context and you know it. I never use that word on a message board (unless I've lost control and that does happen occasionally) because inevitably someone will find a way to take offense to it but he CLEARLY was NOT calling you an idiot. He used it when he described a scenario that couldn't reasonably be contested. Unless you're willing to argue that a 70% winning percentage is proof of "tanking" than you have nothing to stand on here.

Steve

 

[BC867]

You took that well out of context and you know it. I never use that word on a message board (unless I've lost control and that does happen occasionally) because inevitably someone will find a way to take offense to it but he CLEARLY was NOT calling you an idiot. He used it when he described a scenario that couldn't reasonably be contested. Unless you're willing to argue that a 70% winning percentage is proof of "tanking" than you have nothing to stand on here.

Steve

You're right, Steve. I just hate to see a poster react to a point with the word "idiot".

BTW, I stand by my point.

Specifically, start Gortat in order to not have to overcome deficits from the start, and be able to rest Nash after his alloted minutes, rather than needing him at the end of each game.

Watching the Suns constantly play catchup by pairing Lopez with Nash from the start, and minimizing Gortat's time with Nash, then having to play Nash beyond what should be allotted minutes for his health and endurance, is tantamount to tanking.

Gentry may not be doing it specifically for a better draft pick. But it sure has resulted in the probability of our being eliminated from the post-season.

The result is the same.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Watching the Suns constantly play catchup by pairing Lopez with Nash from the start, and minimizing Gortat's time with Nash, then having to play Nash beyond what should be allotted minutes for his health and endurance, is tantamount to tanking.

Gentry may not be doing it specifically for a better draft pick. But it sure has resulted in the probability of our being eliminated from the post-season.

The result is the same.

You are rationalizing. We HAVE NOT BEEN PLAYING CATCHUP every single game as you often seem to suggest. This is a recent trend that began with Steve's injury and has little to do with Lopez. Nash played a lot of minutes this season long before Gortat ever got here. And, again, when you look at our winning percentage since Gortat arrived (minus the games where we were playing without Frye and Nash) it's hard to argue that we've been setting ourselves up for failure.

We are going to be eliminated because we started off this season with one of the most poorly constructed rosters I've ever seen. We are going to be eliminated because once we finally put the right pieces around Nash, Nash was no longer the player he had been. And we are going to be eliminated because we lost Frye for several games at a point in the season when we had no margin for error.

If you want to add that we are going to be eliminated because we didn't start Gortat, go ahead and add it but don't delude yourself into thinking it's THE reason. At best, it is one of many and it comes far down the list IMO. The facts BTW, support this idea - just take a look at our winning percentage during the Gortat bench run.

As I've said all along, I'd start Gortat but personally, I think playing Carter and Warrick has a lot more to do with our current position than anything to do with our centers.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

You are rationalizing. We HAVE NOT BEEN PLAYING CATCHUP every single game as you often seem to suggest. This is a recent trend that began with Steve's injury and has little to do with Lopez.
Steve

Every single game is a gross exaggeration. Also, to be clear, my stance is not as extreme as some others. I have maintained this it is bigger than Lopez. To me it's been Lopez, Carter and a couple of games were Gentry was experimenting.

Having said that, I was thinking it was more like half of the time that the Suns were either trailing by the end of the 1st or at the end of the 3rd. That would be a significant number of games.

So, I did the math. The Suns (dating back to Jan) have trailed at the end of the 1st or 3rd quarters in 47% of their games. Almost 50%. Keep in mind they had one of the softest schedules in the entire NBA in February or they probably would have hit 50%. That also doesn't factor in all the games the Suns were trailing before they went to the bench earlier in the 1st or 3rd tied it up or took a lead.

You don't want to know how often the Suns have trailed in rebounds at the end of the 1st or by the end of the 3rd. It was so bad, I stopped calculating it.

Either way you slice it....that is bad. Gentry is the one that said earlier this season that any time your team has to play catchup it takes a huge toll over the course of the game. He said maintaining a lead is much easier. When two fifths of your starting lineup wouldn't start on other teams......I don't see how the issues mentioned above would not be a major factors.

 

[Chaplin]

Both Eddie Johnson and Tom Chambers had great points about starting Lopez over Gortat last night--especially EJ.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Every single game is a gross exaggeration. Also, to be clear, my stance is not as extreme as some others. I have maintained this it is bigger than Lopez. To me it's been Lopez, Carter and a couple of games were Gentry was experimenting.

Having said that, I was thinking it was more like half of the time that the Suns were either trailing by the end of the 1st or at the end of the 3rd. That would be a significant number of games.

So, I did the math. The Suns (dating back to Jan) have trailed at the end of the 1st or 3rd quarters in 47% of their games. Almost 50%. Keep in mind they had one of the softest schedules in the entire NBA in February or they probably would have hit 50%. That also doesn't factor in all the games the Suns were trailing before they went to the bench earlier in the 1st or 3rd tied it up or took a lead.

You don't want to know how often the Suns have trailed in rebounds at the end of the 1st or by the end of the 3rd. It was so bad, I stopped calculating it.

Either way you slice it....that is bad. Gentry is the one that said earlier this season that any time your team has to play catchup it takes a huge toll over the course of the game. He said maintaining a lead is much easier. When two fifths of your starting lineup wouldn't start on other teams......I don't see how the issues mentioned above would not be a major factors.

47% isn't that strange especially when you consider that Nash has been sub par since the all star break. Also, it's not like Lopez plays the entire 1st and 3rd quarters. Prior to Nash coming up lame, we often would be tied or thereabouts (small lead, small deficit) and then fell behind after Gortat entered. Now, this happened less and less as Gortat became more sure of himself but it also contributed to your 47%.

Steve

 

[desertdawg]

Both Eddie Johnson and Tom Chambers had great points about starting Lopez over Gortat last night--especially EJ.

Both get paid to make them.

 

[desertdawg]

47% isn't that strange especially when you consider that Nash has been sub par since the all star break. Also, it's not like Lopez plays the entire 1st and 3rd quarters. Prior to Nash coming up lame, we often would be tied or thereabouts (small lead, small deficit) and then fell behind after Gortat entered. Now, this happened less and less as Gortat became more sure of himself but it also contributed to your 47%.

Steve

Your right, it's not Lopez's fault. Your right Gortat is better. Your right, it's Gentry's fault.
You are so wise.

 

[Covert Rain]

47% isn't that strange especially when you consider that Nash has been sub par since the all star break. Also, it's not like Lopez plays the entire 1st and 3rd quarters. Prior to Nash coming up lame, we often would be tied or thereabouts (small lead, small deficit) and then fell behind after Gortat entered. Now, this happened less and less as Gortat became more sure of himself but it also contributed to your 47%.

Steve

It's not a perfect stat and as I stated it also doesn't take into account the bench runs at the end of the 1st and 3rd that has happened several times to dig us out. clearly though it's a pattern that started post trade. I also don't place as much emphasis on the Nash thing until he recently was forced to take a break. Even in some of those games Nash had a great game and the results were the same.

 

[sunsfan88]

As an outsider it's obvious that Gortat is your best center and should start. RoLo might be good enough to be a backup C or he might not quite make it.

Lopez for Blair.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Lopez for Blair.

Selma Blair, maybe, although we'd probably have to include a draft pick or two.

Steve