Suns at Warriors ESPN and FSN AZ 7:00PM

[arwillan]

And the ball was deflected by Jackson to begin with so it should have been Suns ball anyway.

And yes the ref did kick it, Barbosa would have picked it up regardless of the ref but then he started moving like a robot and kicked the ball out of bounds with his heel while peddling backwards..

That was 20 sec after the same ref called an offensive foul on Amare like 5 seconds to late after he saw the pass and jackson laying on the floor after his flop.

not true. barbosa touched it again before it hit the ref and again while it was under the refs legs too.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Don't let it shock you...


The Mavs thought the same thing last year.

Nash's heart >>>> Nowitzki's heart

Thats all I need to know

 

[arwillan]

Fair enough but if that was a critical point in a playoff game the official needs to come back with a make-up call the other way.
That rule needs to be looked at more closely. It's rare that it happens and affects possession but that's a black hole ruling.

completely agree. the rule should be changed to if the referee incidentally comes into contact with the ball, it's a side out of bounds for the last team to have full posession of the ball.

 

[arwillan]

Nash's heart >>>> Nowitzki's heart

Thats all I need to know

and what gives you the impression dirk has no heart? he doesn't have much of a post game...but heart? i think he has plenty of that.

 

[SO91]

your stats are a bit off, actually.

with marion:

Ellis: 31 points on 14/23 shooting in only 35 minutes.
Davis: 28 points on 11/24 shooting in 42 minutes
Jackson: 32 points on 13/21 shooting in 42 minutes.

w/o marion:

Ellis: 37 points on 18/27 shooting in 48 minutes.
Davis: 27 points on 12/23 shooting in 45 minutes
Jackson: 19 points on 6/17 shooting in 43 minutes

the real difference was jackson. if you only compare the guards (which we were discussing in the first place), the guards played better without marion. Again, your point is invalid because the stats tell another story as far as the guards go.

Are they really that much better though? I mean maybe the couple of beers I had are clouding my vision, but those stats don't loook that much different with or w/o Marion. The two guards scored more points tonight, but they played more minutes.

 

[az1965]

The Suns would have been the same team had Barbosa made that three at the end or not. But if thats the case why does perception swing so violently if we win by one or we lose by one? We would still have the same strenghs and weaknesses.

I'm actually proud the Suns came back twice in the final 3 minutes when many other teams would have just folded in that arena with that momentum. Sometimes it take just one play, or even a made free throw mad and every one is peachy keen.

You are right. Winning and losing by 1-2 points won't change a team. Suns would still be the same team struggling against good teams and unable to pull out close games, unless they change the trend / % of win vs. lose by showing they can consistently pull out close games.

 

[SO91]

and what gives you the impression dirk has no heart? he doesn't have much of a post game...but heart? i think he has plenty of that.

He may have heart, but what he's saying is Nash's heart is bigger. I'd agree with him.

 

[Proteus]

Nash's heart >>>> Nowitzki's heart

Thats all I need to know

I don't think heart is enough to overcome a bad matchup.

 

[joshstmarie]

your stats are a bit off, actually.

with marion:

Ellis: 31 points on 14/23 shooting in only 35 minutes.
Davis: 28 points on 11/24 shooting in 42 minutes
Jackson: 32 points on 13/21 shooting in 42 minutes.

w/o marion:

Ellis: 37 points on 18/27 shooting in 48 minutes.
Davis: 27 points on 12/23 shooting in 45 minutes
Jackson: 19 points on 6/17 shooting in 43 minutes

the real difference was jackson. if you only compare the guards (which we were discussing in the first place), the guards played better without marion. Again, your point is invalid because the stats tell another story as far as the guards go.

dude, ... i said the suns dont miss marion and then you piped up with ellis, davis, paul, jackson BY NAME. FIRST you say marion gaurds everyone now you say OH well its jackson he had the most impact on. (edited because i argued against my own point)

and how are my stats off? i quoted the same exact numbers you did.

 

[az1965]

Nash's heart >>>> Nowitzki's heart

Thats all I need to know

I don't doubt Nash's heart but I also don't want to underestimate the opponents especially since we are 0-2 against them. And we as a team are struggling a bit. There is not a huge gap between teams anymore, we need to realize that.

 

[arwillan]

dude, ... i said the suns dont miss marion and then you piped up with ellis, davis, paul, jackson BY NAME. FIRST you say marion gaurds everyone now you say OH well its jackson he had the most impact on. gimme a break jackson was actually MORE efficient with marion gone.

and how are my stats off? i quoted the same exact numbers you did.

you just disproved your own theory with that statement lol. nice job.

 

[green machine]

Don't let it shock you...


The Mavs thought the same thing last year.

The difference is the Suns have an inside scoring presence in Amare, and may have two with Shaq. The Mavs had 0.

 

[arwillan]

and how are my stats off? i quoted the same exact numbers you did.

no you didn't. you said all 3 of them shot 2/13 tonight lol. you also said they all shot 11/26 the previous game. not even in the same ballpark for tonight's stats. check my previous post, i took the liberty of bolding all of the stats you had incorrect. for someone trying to prove a point, you sure are rather ignorant to your own errors in evidence, eh?

 

[az1965]

The difference is the Suns have an inside scoring presence in Amare, and may have two with Shaq. The Mavs had 0.

We will see how Shaq thing will pan out but we did not exploit Amare matchup enough. Also, I'm not sure a true center would make that much difference against a team like GS. Shaq was acquired to counter the Duncan's of the league, not the non-typical style of GS.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Arwillian - Nowitizki is as soft as paper mache. Period. I'm not sure why anyone other then greensborohill would say otherwise.

As for Nash's will being enough to win the game - well i take that back kinda. My main premise is that Dallas matched up poorly with GS because of the fact they went small. With Shaq we don't have that issue

But I expect alot out of Nash this post season. Shaq and Amare will be important but our championship chances rest on the shoulders of Stevie boy. And for what its worth, I'll take that every day of the week. He is a warrior.

 

[az1965]

BTW, we had a huge advantage on rebounding and still lost. That's one area we are hoping Shaq will help and that did not matter today.

 

[arwillan]

Arwillian - Nowitizki is as soft as paper mache. Period. I'm not sure why anyone other then greensborohill would say otherwise.

As for Nash's will being enough to win the game - well i take that back kinda. My main premise is that Dallas matched up poorly with GS because of the fact they went small. With Shaq we don't have that issue

But I expect alot out of Nash this post season. Shaq and Amare will be important but our championship chances rest on the shoulders of Stevie boy. And for what its worth, I'll take that every day of the week. He is a warrior.

don't get me wrong bud, i'm not doubting nash's heart at all. i'm just saying don't doubt nowitzki's either. he simply did not have the skill set to lead his team over the warriors at all. Not much he could do about that....nash didn't have the skillset to lead his team over the spurs either.

 

[arwillan]

BTW, we had a huge advantage on rebounding and still lost. That's one area we are hoping Shaq will help and that did not matter today.

BINGO! thankfully i'm not the only one to see that.

 

[joshstmarie]

you just disproved your own theory with that statement lol. nice job.

this is why proof reading is key. but it actually wasnt my theory in the first place, it was yours. i said the suns dont miss marion.. because jackson is a few % points better from the field doesnt really mean much. imo we are playing the same, if not better basketball w/o him.

 

[Proteus]

I don't think Shaq would have been too helpful in this game as he'd be too busy sucking wind.

 

[arwillan]

this is why proof reading is key. but it actually wasnt my theory in the first place, it was yours. i said the suns dont miss marion.. because jackson is a few % points better from the field doesnt really mean much. imo we are playing the same, if not better basketball w/o him.

i admit, the difference is not drastic by any means. but late in the game when davis and ellis took over, would you not rather have marion than have nash on defense? anyone in the right mind would.

 

[mjb21aztd]

I'm sorry this is only directed at one person, but how can someone say this season is over when we lose by 2 pts in a hard fought game to a very good team in the nba?

 

[mojorizen7]

The difference is the Suns have an inside scoring presence in Amare, and may have two with Shaq. The Mavs had 0.

You're not an Erik Dampier fan? Come on...he's a force to be reckoned with with his a$$ to the basket.LOL

I don't see Golden state winning more than 2 games in a best of 7.
As most of us SUNS fan's should know, unless you're shooting 65% per night, it's awfully tough to win while getting pounded on the boards.
We will be a better rebounding team than the WARRIORS with Shaq/Stat in there.
How about that early B.S. call on Bell? Since when is it a foul to box out?
That call set the tone for the night ahead in terms of officiating.

 

[mojorizen7]

BTW, we had a huge advantage on rebounding and still lost. That's one area we are hoping Shaq will help and that did not matter today.

No, it didn't but we were outshot 54% to 51% from the field & 38% to 33% from behind the arc & lost by 2 on the road.
If the SUNS come out & get their typical -9 per game rebound differential or wherever it is now we get blown out of the gym IMO.
Goes to show how important rebounding is in terms of giving yourself a chance when your getting outplayed offensively.

 

[joshstmarie]

i admit, the difference is not drastic by any means. but late in the game when davis and ellis took over, would you not rather have marion than have nash on defense? anyone in the right mind would.

marion of course. but then again once shaq mans the middle.. like someone else said, i think the warriors are going to shoot themselves out of the game because they wont be driving down the lane as much.