Suns @ Bucks Sunday Finals game thread 7-11-2021 - Game 3

[82CardsGrad]

Dario got hurt within 2 minutes into his entry in the game. He was on Lopez and Crowder was on Giannis. When did he slow Giannis down?

LOL... Not gonna debate this anymore. I believe Saric provided defensive value and his absence has left a massive hole. Period. Good day buddy...

 

[1Sun]

Whether you think Saric isn't much of a loss or that his loss is disastrous, there should be one thing on which we can agree: This team needed more than Saric on the bench in terms of playable bigs. In a season where James Jones made a number of great moves, his failure to bring in another big where the need for one was quite obvious still requires some explanation, in my opinion.

 

[Covert Rain]

LOL... Not gonna debate this anymore. I believe Saric provided defensive value and his absence has left a massive hole. Period. Good day buddy...

I am asking you a question. You said Dario slowed him down in the 2 minutes he was in there. Maybe you were thinking of someone else?

 

[82CardsGrad]

Whether you think Saric isn't much of a loss or that his loss is disastrous, there should be one thing on which we can agree: This team needed more than Saric on the bench in terms of playable bigs. In a season where James Jones made a number of great moves, his failure to bring in another big where the need for one was quite obvious still requires some explanation, in my opinion.

Nobody bats .1000. And I'm sure that at the time, Jones had valid reasons for making the moves he made, and not making moves some thought he should.
Bottom line, this team, with Saric and not-withstanding their ridiculous youth and lack of post-season play, proved they are good enough to win it all.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Which illustrates the point I've been making...that the absence of Saric is huge here. We literally don't have a single body, outside of DA, who can pose even the slightest bit of resistance to Giannis. Saric was able to slow Giannis down and keep him - not 100% but consistently enough - from steam-rolling to the hoop.
Additionally, this problem is magnified 10-fold (that's for you @cheesebeef), when Giannis drives and our defense has collapsed on/around him, and he simply dishes to the wide-open Portis/Middleton under the hoop for an easy deuce.

Saric was able to slow Giannis down? Uh... when? That is as hilarious as every time you quit on the team after they dare to lose a game in the WCF and Finals.

 

[Cheesebeef]

LOL... Not gonna debate this anymore. I believe Saric provided defensive value and his absence has left a massive hole. Period. Good day buddy...

in other words... he never slowed Giannis down.

reality is that Saric’s loss is felt the most on offense. He provided spacing passing (occasionally at this point in the season) and with Payne playing like crap, our second unit has been sorely lacking the push it made so often this season.

 

[Covert Rain]

Saric was able to slow Giannis down? Uh... when? That is as hilarious as every time you quit on the team after they dare to lose a game in the WCF and Finals.

That had to be the most product two minutes of defense....EVER.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I am asking you a question. You said Dario slowed him down in the 2 minutes he was in there. Maybe you were thinking of someone else?

In the regular season OT win, Dario played 18 mins. Giannis was "held" to 33 pts and 8 boards. In the other regular season, one-point win, Dario didn't play and Giannis went for 47 pts and 11 boards.

 

[82CardsGrad]

in other words... he never slowed Giannis down.

reality is that Saric’s loss is felt the most on offense. He provided spacing passing (occasionally at this point in the season) and with Payne playing like crap, our second unit has been sorely lacking the push it made so often this season.

See my above post... oh, and get some rest.

 

[Covert Rain]

in other words... he never slowed Giannis down.

reality is that Saric’s loss is felt the most on offense. He provided spacing passing (occasionally at this point in the season) and with Payne playing like crap, our second unit has been sorely lacking the push it made so often this season.

So this. He spreads out the offense and would make either Lopez or Giannis come out to the top of the key.

 

[Covert Rain]

In the regular season OT win, Dario played 18 mins. Giannis was "held" to 33 pts and 8 boards. In the other regular season, one-point win, Dario didn't play and Giannis went for 47 pts and 11 boards.

Ayton and Crowder played the vast majority of those minutes on Giannis. Dario very rarely was matched up against Giannis. When he is in the game with Crowder or Ayton they have him matched up on Lopez. I will go back and double check but I don't think you can't attribute Dario to slowing down Giannis....ever.

 

[GatorAZ]

Dario is averaging over 15/8/3 and shooting 44% from 3 per-36 this postseason. I know per-36 isn’t an accurate indicator of what his number would be if he played more minutes but it gives you an idea that he’s good enough to belong on the court. He’s strong enough to rebound isn’t afraid to shoot. You need guys that are fearless.

 

[Cheesebeef]

In the regular season OT win, Dario played 18 mins. Giannis was "held" to 33 pts and 8 boards. In the other regular season, one-point win, Dario didn't play and Giannis went for 47 pts and 11 boards.

Giannis sat out all of OT and part of the 4th with cramps. Maybe that contributed to him only scoring 33 points, don’t you think? Or is Dario some kind of a wizard who spelled Giannis with injury beyond being a Giannis stopper?! If so, you’re right. We definitely miss Dario’s wizarding skills!

 

[Hoop Head]

in other words... he never slowed Giannis down.

reality is that Saric’s loss is felt the most on offense. He provided spacing passing (occasionally at this point in the season) and with Payne playing like crap, our second unit has been sorely lacking the push it made so often this season.

Saric hasn't helped this team offensively in months. Frank can and does usually provide just as much as Saric does on the offensive end, outside of offensive rebounding. Saric is missed most on the glass. He could box out and grab boards or enable others on our team to get them. He also wasn't a push over that was targeted like Frank because he's strong enough and physical enough to body people up and make them work for baskets inside rather than conceding them, Tank style.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Ayton and Crowder played the vast majority of those minutes on Giannis. Dario very rarely was matched up against Giannis. When he is in the game with Crowder or Ayton they have him matched up on Lopez. I will go back and double check but I don't think you can't attribute Dario to slowing down Giannis....ever.

To be clear, I have never said nor suggested Dario was Giannis' kryptonite. Go back and try to unearth data that would show how often Dario was matched against Giannis. I will still contend that the Suns' are better defensively with him as DA's back-up, versus anything we now pull off the bench.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Giannis sat out all of OT and part of the 4th with cramps. Maybe that contributed to him only scoring 33 points, don’t you think? Or is Dario some kind of a wizard who spelled Giannis with injury beyond being a Giannis stopper?! If so, you’re right. We definitely miss Dario’s wizarding skills!

He played the same about of mins in each game... And yes, I do miss Dario's ability to resemble Magic Johnson! We're so screwed with that type of presence coming off the bench!

 

[Covert Rain]

To be clear, I have never said nor suggested Dario was Giannis' kryptonite. Go back and try to unearth data that would show how often Dario was matched against Giannis. I will still contend that the Suns' are better defensively with him as DA's back-up, versus anything we now pull off the bench.

I am looking at the box scores now and shot logs. It looks like Dario was mostly in there when Giannis was on the bench. I am specifically talking about your comment around him slowing down Giannis. I don't see where Dario played any significant time against Giannis to be able to say he slowed him down in those games.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Saric hasn't helped this team offensively in months. Frank can and does usually provide just as much as Saric does on the offensive end, outside of offensive rebounding. Saric is missed most on the glass. He could box out and grab boards or enable others on our team to get them. He also wasn't a push over that was targeted like Frank because he's strong enough and physical enough to body people up and make them work for baskets inside rather than conceding them, Tank style.

Saric also wasn't afraid to step back and shoot a 3-ball from time to time. He shot 35% from behind the line this season...

 

[Hoop Head]

Saric also wasn't afraid to step back and shoot a 3-ball from time to time. He shot 35% from behind the line this season...

Frank shot 36.5% from 3. I'd call it a wash when comparing Saric and Frank offensively. Both are decent at stretching the floor and passing to open players for easy baskets. Its defensively where the difference between the two really comes out, IMO.


Heres a look at their stats this year...

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[82CardsGrad]

Frank shot 36.5% from 3. I'd call it a wash when comparing Saric and Frank offensively. Both are decent at stretching the floor and passing to open players for easy baskets. Its defensively where the difference between the two really comes out, IMO.


Heres a look at their stats this year...

You must be registered for see images attach

Yes...my point was that not only is Saric the best defensive option we had behind DA, but he was also a respectable 3-point shooter.
And FWIW, I wouldn't trust Frank making a key post-season 3-pointer... I would trust that Dario would take well-timed shots and drill a few daggers at critical moments of a post-season game.

 

[Covert Rain]

Yes...my point was that not only is Saric the best defensive option we had behind DA, but he was also a respectable 3-point shooter.
And FWIW, I wouldn't trust Frank making a key post-season 3-pointer... I would trust that Dario would take well-timed shots and drill a few daggers at critical moments of a post-season game.

Craig shot 50.3% from the field and 36.9% from 3-point range this season and was the better defender against athletic guys all season. There is zero reason why Craig can't fill that role. I am more concerned with what comes after if both Ayton and Crowder get into foul trouble. That's where Saric helps you. He becomes that extra body off the bench to spell other guys and use some of those fouls. If Saric hits a couple threes that's icing. Frank has been useless. He is the biggest disappointment to me in terms of acquisitions. I thought he could contribute more.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Craig shot shot 50.3% from the field and 36.9% from 3-point range this season and was the better defender all season. There is zero reason why Craig can't fill that role. I am more concerned with what comes after if Ayton/Crowder get into foul trouble. That's where Saric helps you. He becomes that extra body off the bench to spell other guys and use some of those fouls. Frank has been useless. He is the biggest disappointment to me in terms of acquisitions. I thought he could contribute more.

Craig is definitely the better option, offensively. But I don't see Torrey as a viable option to defend Giannis. That said, if Ayton can somehow stay out of foul trouble, there might not be many occasions when he's off the floor and Giannis isn't. I think if the Suns can ensure that, for the most part, whenever Giannis is on the floor Ayton is as well, we might not have to worry too much about who is defending Giannis...

 

[Covert Rain]

Craig is definitely the better option, offensively. But I don't see Torrey as a viable option to defend Giannis. That said, if Ayton can somehow stay out of foul trouble, there might not be many occasions when he's off the floor and Giannis isn't. I think if the Suns can ensure that, for the most part, whenever Giannis is on the floor Ayton is as well, we might not have to worry too much about who is defending Giannis...

There is no better option to defend Giannis outside of Ayton or Crowder. It doesn't exist on this team. Craig would be your next best option but that doesn't mean it's a good one. Crowder has struggled to stay in front of Giannis at times when guarding him. Really, Ayton is the only person who can effectively try and slow down Giannis. As you stated you have to match Ayton out there with him. That's why Frank is such a disappointment. He can't even guard Lopez. So if you have a 7 footer as part of your front court that can't get on the court because he can't guard Giannis or Lopez?

 

[Hoop Head]

We have 2 days off. Stick Ayton on a treadmill with film playing showing him his fouls over and over. Get him ready to log all 48 minutes if necessary. He's 22 years old, if he's not in foul trouble it shouldn't be too much to ask of him. He might even get lucky and get to sit in the 4th. We got 2 more days between games 4 & 5. At least there's no travel during this down time, between 3 & 4.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

in other words... he never slowed Giannis down.

reality is that Saric’s loss is felt the most on offense. He provided spacing passing (occasionally at this point in the season) and with Payne playing like crap, our second unit has been sorely lacking the push it made so often this season.

I think we also lose his big body boxing out offensive rebounders.