Suns @ Bulls 2-24-17

[JCSunsfan]

On Len...Are we absolutely sure he commands a huge salary? I know Mozgov got paid, but I think that is viewed universally as a mistake. With the league moving away from traditional centers, maybe this is finally the year undeserving seven-footers don't get overpaid. It only takes one team, but who would that team be?

No cap space (based on cursory research):
Wizards, Pistons, Grizzlies, Cavs, Blazers, Thunder, Bucks, Hornets, Raptors, Rockets, Warriors

Already invested in a center (in today's NBA, a back-up traditional center is not an asset worth spending big money on):
Bulls, 76ers, Kings, Nets, Nuggets, Clippers, Mavs, Jazz, Magic, Hawks, Pelicans, Heat

So that would leave the Celtics, Lakers, Timberwolves, Spurs, Pacers, and Knicks as our only reasonable competition.

The Celtics seem to be chasing bigger fish.

The Spurs seem far too smart to give Len a giant contract.

The Lakers just signed Mozgov.

The Twolves are going to need cap space for extending their own young players with much higher potential than Len.

The Knicks have Hernangomez cheap and are already paying Noah an obscene amount of money.

So that leaves the Pacers? Maybe they don't like Len that much.

I didn't look that closely into cap room, so I might be mistaken about the teams that do and don't have it. That said, the point remains...It takes another suitor to drive up Len's price.

The Knicks are going to offer him $20 million per year, aren't they?

This is a good post. Add to that the fact that there are probably 8 centers more desirable ahead of him.

Monroe, Olynyk, Mason Plumlee, Noel, Pachulia, Baynes, Bogut. You may argue if these guys are better, but Hoopshype lists them all above Len.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Thanks. And good point. The Mavericks were a concern before, but their trade for Noel makes it far less likely. Maybe if they lose Noel to a huge offer they settle for Len? Even then, they could just as likely go after Plumlee, Olynyk, Monroe, etc.

I actually like Len and hope we get to keep him if the price is right. The tricky part is finding out what that price is and not going above it.

It would be a shame to lose Len, but he's not the type of player worth chasing beyond what the market dictates.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Thanks. And good point. The Mavericks were a concern before, but their trade for Noel makes it far less likely. Maybe if they lose Noel to a huge offer they settle for Len? Even then, they could just as likely go after Plumlee, Olynyk, Monroe, etc.

I actually like Len and hope we get to keep him if the price is right. The tricky part is finding out what that price is and not going above it.

It would be a shame to lose Len, but he's not the type of player worth chasing beyond what the market dictates.

Len is going to sign for a Dudley level deal IMO. However, he could play himself out of that.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

That sounds reasonable.

I'm also starting to get a little concerned that Alan Williams might cost more to keep than originally thought. I love his attitude, effort, and production and would hate to lose the hometown kid.

Obviously, his short track record and height will limit his earnings, but I wonder what he'll end up getting on the market.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Len is going to sign for a Dudley level deal IMO. However, he could play himself out of that.

Yeah, I thought he'd draw a big salary this offseason but he hasn't shown himself worthy of it so far.

 

[Mainstreet]

Len is going to sign for a Dudley level deal IMO. However, he could play himself out of that.

If Len only commands this type of salary, I think you keep him and hope that he makes up for his late start in basketball somewhere down the road.

 

[JCSunsfan]

That sounds reasonable.

I'm also starting to get a little concerned that Alan Williams might cost more to keep than originally thought. I love his attitude, effort, and production and would hate to lose the hometown kid.

Obviously, his short track record and height will limit his earnings, but I wonder what he'll end up getting on the market.

Williams adds competition for Len on the FA market.

 

[JCSunsfan]

On Len...Are we absolutely sure he commands a huge salary? I know Mozgov got paid, but I think that is viewed universally as a mistake. With the league moving away from traditional centers, maybe this is finally the year undeserving seven-footers don't get overpaid. It only takes one team, but who would that team be?

No cap space (based on cursory research):
Wizards, Pistons, Grizzlies, Cavs, Blazers, Thunder, Bucks, Hornets, Raptors, Rockets, Warriors

Already invested in a center (in today's NBA, a back-up traditional center is not an asset worth spending big money on):
Bulls, 76ers, Kings, Nets, Nuggets, Clippers, Mavs, Jazz, Magic, Hawks, Pelicans, Heat

So that would leave the Celtics, Lakers, Timberwolves, Spurs, Pacers, and Knicks as our only reasonable competition.

The Celtics seem to be chasing bigger fish.

The Spurs seem far too smart to give Len a giant contract.

The Lakers just signed Mozgov.

The Twolves are going to need cap space for extending their own young players with much higher potential than Len.

The Knicks have Hernangomez cheap and are already paying Noah an obscene amount of money.

So that leaves the Pacers? Maybe they don't like Len that much.

I didn't look that closely into cap room, so I might be mistaken about the teams that do and don't have it. That said, the point remains...It takes another suitor to drive up Len's price.

The Knicks are going to offer him $20 million per year, aren't they?

Celtics should be trying to sign Olynyk.
Spurs could be competition for Len. They do not overpay
Lakers will not be interested IMO.
T-Wolves do not need Len.
Knicks could do anything. How would Len look alongside Porzingis?
Pacers will have lots of options, Len among them.

 

[JustWinBaby]

On Len...Are we absolutely sure he commands a huge salary? I know Mozgov got paid, but I think that is viewed universally as a mistake. With the league moving away from traditional centers, maybe this is finally the year undeserving seven-footers don't get overpaid. It only takes one team, but who would that team be?

No cap space (based on cursory research):
Wizards, Pistons, Grizzlies, Cavs, Blazers, Thunder, Bucks, Hornets, Raptors, Rockets, Warriors

Already invested in a center (in today's NBA, a back-up traditional center is not an asset worth spending big money on):
Bulls, 76ers, Kings, Nets, Nuggets, Clippers, Mavs, Jazz, Magic, Hawks, Pelicans, Heat

So that would leave the Celtics, Lakers, Timberwolves, Spurs, Pacers, and Knicks as our only reasonable competition.

The Celtics seem to be chasing bigger fish.

The Spurs seem far too smart to give Len a giant contract.

The Lakers just signed Mozgov.

The Twolves are going to need cap space for extending their own young players with much higher potential than Len.

The Knicks have Hernangomez cheap and are already paying Noah an obscene amount of money.

So that leaves the Pacers? Maybe they don't like Len that much.

I didn't look that closely into cap room, so I might be mistaken about the teams that do and don't have it. That said, the point remains...It takes another suitor to drive up Len's price.

The Knicks are going to offer him $20 million per year, aren't they?

If you are correct we could be bidding against ourselves.

Nice evaluation keep them coming.

 

[SirStefan32]

That sounds reasonable.

I'm also starting to get a little concerned that Alan Williams might cost more to keep than originally thought. I love his attitude, effort, and production and would hate to lose the hometown kid.

Obviously, his short track record and height will limit his earnings, but I wonder what he'll end up getting on the market.

Honestly, the only thing Len gives you that Williams doesn't is rim protection. Outside of that, Williams is a far better player right now.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Honestly, the only thing Len gives you that Williams doesn't is rim protection. Outside of that, Williams is a far better player right now.

Len is a better overall defender, I think.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Len is a better overall defender, I think.

Outside of rim protection, I'm not sure he is. Len falls for every fake and that has to be factored in too. And when someone comes at him playing straight up low post basketball, he's usually pretty solid but we see so little of that in today's NBA which somewhat negates one of his strengths.

 

[SirStefan32]

He might be a better overall defender. I suppose rim protection is a big part of defense. As Steve pointed out, Len falls for fakes too often. Problem with Williams is that he just doesn't have the length and height to be effective defensively. He does an excellent job with what he has, but he is a 6'8 heavy guy with normal arms and athleticism that's less than impressive. If we could give him Len's body, or give Len Williams' attitude and brain, we'd have the best Center in the league.

 

[JCSunsfan]

He might be a better overall defender. I suppose rim protection is a big part of defense. As Steve pointed out, Len falls for fakes too often. Problem with Williams is that he just doesn't have the length and height to be effective defensively. He does an excellent job with what he has, but he is a 6'8 heavy guy with normal arms and athleticism that's less than impressive. If we could give him Len's body, or give Len Williams' attitude and brain, we'd have the best Center in the league.

Williams blocks shots at a higher per 36 rate than Len. But Alan fouls at a much higher rate than Len, believe it or not.

 

[pokerface]

I know it's a small sample of games but Williams seems like the better rebounder and scorer.

 

[JustWinBaby]

I think Len may be a dinosaur in todays NBA. I don't know of any successful team with someone of Len's limited ability at the 5. He cannot finish in traffic at all. Unless he has a wide open lane to the hoop he almost always gets blocked at the rim. Williams meanwhile seems to thrive getting off his shot in traffic.

I am in the corner with those that see Bender as our potential future Center. He is athletic and has shown the potential to be able to guard multiple positions, which is becoming more and more necessary in todays NBA. I believe he has been working out in the gym and has increased his strength. I really see Bender and Chriss being a possible very good tandem in the front line in a couple of years. That is why I really do not want to see Alex Len on this team after this season unless something dramatic changes in his game over the last 20 games in this season.

I would be more than happy with Chandler, Bender and Williams as our rotation at the 5 starting next year.

Len has a chance to change my mind but he is on the clock.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Williams blocks shots at a higher per 36 rate than Len. But Alan fouls at a much higher rate than Len, believe it or not.

Sure but I don't see Williams as anything but a backup so it's less of a concern. Also, he has this problem today. Alex still has his fouling problems after 1100+ minutes this season alone whereas Williams has his with only 281 total minutes for his entire career.

 

[Phrazbit]

I can handle Len for 3 years 30 mil.

I agree with the post at the end of page 5. I just don't see who is going to throw him crazy money. I expect the league, despite the rising cap, to be a little more frugal this offseason. A bunch of guys who were either unproven or generally mediocre got stupid money last year and those contracts are almost universally regretted right now. Plumlee, Mozgov, Evan Turner, Allen Crabbe, Solomon Hill, Ian Mahinmi... it is hard to think of a contract that made you go "woah!" last summer that isn't currently a complete disaster.

Also, woe to the Blazers, who are in cap hell, even with the insanely high salary cap. Poor Lillard, they have surrounded him with a very very expensive collection of 7th and 8th men, CJ McCollum aside. Next season when McCollum's extension kicks in they're going to be on the hook for 137 million, 10 mil more than the record setting, luxury tax shoveling Cavs this season.

 

[Bada0Bing]

I can handle Len for 3 years 30 mil.

I agree with the post at the end of page 5. I just don't see who is going to throw him crazy money. I expect the league, despite the rising cap, to be a little more frugal this offseason. A bunch of guys who were either unproven or generally mediocre got stupid money last year and those contracts are almost universally regretted right now. Plumlee, Mozgov, Evan Turner, Allen Crabbe, Solomon Hill, Ian Mahinmi... it is hard to think of a contract that made you go "woah!" last summer that isn't currently a complete disaster.

Also, woe to the Blazers, who are in cap hell, even with the insanely high salary cap. Poor Lillard, they have surrounded him with a very very expensive collection of 7th and 8th men, CJ McCollum aside. Next season when McCollum's extension kicks in they're going to be on the hook for 137 million, 10 mil more than the record setting, luxury tax shoveling Cavs this season.

Wow. I just took a look at their salaries on HoopsHype. The Blazers are absolutely screwed for the next 3 years.