Suns claim Luis Scola

[TJ]

Unless you're actively rooting against the team, it's hard not to appreciate this acquisition. Scola is a very solid player all around. Averages 15/8 for his entire career. I've always loved his high motor on both sides of the court. I always hated playing him because he would out hustle the entire team for rebounds and second chance opportunities. Moreover, it gives Dragic an extra weapon offensively and someone with whom he's familiar roaming the court.

Plus, he's coming to us for relatively next to nothing. The only reason Houston got rid of him was because they're going all-in for D12.

Also, in his 5 seasons in the league, he's missed a total of 8 games. All in the 2010-2011 season.

Totally fine with this move.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Well I am pretty happy with the move. His is an immensely tradable asset in 3 years since his contract will be virtually non guaranteed. Someone will want to acquire him for cap space.

The plan is what they have always said. They are willing to reload...but they will not rebuild. This team will never tank.

So they are going to build a younger and more athletic team with the goal of competing for a 6 - 8 seed. Even with this signing, they are definitely a younger and more athletic team this year.

 

[SunsTzu]

Well I am pretty happy with the move. His is an immensely tradable asset in 3 years since his contract will be virtually non guaranteed. Someone will want to acquire him for cap space.

It's not 3 years it's next year. He will be owed 4.5mil for the 2013-2014 season then 440k buyout the following year.

Assuming he doesn't have a sharp decline his value next year should be quite significant. It's not even that his contract is basically expiring next year, expiring contracts by themselves aren't usually all that valuable(Warrick is expiring but I don't see the Suns being able to flip him for anything of value without taking back something worse). But he will have value as a productive player on a small contract who's team will have the option of creating cap space or keeping him an extra year at a low cost.

The only way I can see anyone be critical of this acquisition is if you are wanting a full on tank job because while he may not be a star player Scola is a guy that will help you win some games.

 

[carey]

Just got to this thread this morning drinking my morning tea. I have some thoughts...

• This move was a no brainer. When you can get a player like Scola for $4M/yr you have to do it. He's the first player we've had in, I don't know how long, with an actual back to the basket game. He's not Kevin McHale reincarnated, but it's an area the Suns have needed for years. Morris is going to learn a lot from him if he takes the time to do so.

• I like that Dragic and Scola are already comfortable playing with one another.

• I predict that Scola will win over most of you naysayers before the year is out. Even those of you that can't stand his flopping. Except for Phrazbit. I don't think anything short of trading for a top 5 player could currently make him happy.

• It's clear the front office is more interested in retooling than rebuilding. It should come as no surprise to anyone listening to Babby the last year and a half. There was a thought that once Nash left we had to bottom out in order to get better. It's one way to go, but not the only way. There's also the chance that once you hit bottom, you might not recover for a long long time. You spend all year losing money at the gate since you're terrible, just to get a high draft pick, and if you miss on that pick, you may not recover. Just look at Sacramento and Golden State.

• People always like to bring up OKC. "Lets rebuild the way OKC did!" Think of all the lucky breaks they had. Oden over Durant. Thabeet over Harden. They had 3 top 4 picks in a 3 year span. That never happens. They had just moved to a new city that was going to sell out games no matter how terrible they were. They had the luxury to take their time and take risks. The Suns don't. Attendance was suffering with the golden boy still here. It was largely a result of their own bad moves, but throwing in the towel on purpose might have been a death knell.

• I don't think we're much more than a .500 ball club as currently constructed. We'll be exactly like the Rockets of the last couple years. There's a chance though, that this collection of guys totally gels and it just works. There's also a chance the opposite happens and someone gets fired.

• It's hard for teams without a legitimate star to do well. Denver seemed to do really well last year, but still got beat in the 1st round of the playoffs. If you look at their roster they are probably still more talented than we are at almost every position. If we call Lawson / Dragic a wash the rest are probably in Denver's favor. McGee / Gortat? He's a bonehead, but has all the talent in the world, hard to take Gortat here. Gallo / Beasley? Maybe closer than you think, but who wouldn't take Gallo here. Faried / Morris? No brainer. Chandler / Dudley? Love Dudley, but might have to go Chandler here too. Even their bench is better. My point is that we're clearly behind Denver talent wise, and they're behind OKC, SAS, LAL, LAC, and MEM. We'll fight with Dallas, Utah, Minnesota, and Houston for 6-8.

• Irregardless isn't a word even if spellcheck doesn't highlight it.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Just got to this thread this morning drinking my morning tea. I have some thoughts...

• This move was a no brainer. When you can get a player like Scola for $4M/yr you have to do it. He's the first player we've had in, I don't know how long, with an actual back to the basket game. He's not Kevin McHale reincarnated, but it's an area the Suns have needed for years. Morris is going to learn a lot from him if he takes the time to do so.

• I like that Dragic and Scola are already comfortable playing with one another.

• I predict that Scola will win over most of you naysayers before the year is out. Even those of you that can't stand his flopping. Except for Phrazbit. I don't think anything short of trading for a top 5 player could currently make him happy.

• It's clear the front office is more interested in retooling than rebuilding. It should come as no surprise to anyone listening to Babby the last year and a half. There was a thought that once Nash left we had to bottom out in order to get better. It's one way to go, but not the only way. There's also the chance that once you hit bottom, you might not recover for a long long time. You spend all year losing money at the gate since you're terrible, just to get a high draft pick, and if you miss on that pick, you may not recover. Just look at Sacramento and Golden State.

• People always like to bring up OKC. "Lets rebuild the way OKC did!" Think of all the lucky breaks they had. Oden over Durant. Thabeet over Harden. They had 3 top 4 picks in a 3 year span. That never happens. They had just moved to a new city that was going to sell out games no matter how terrible they were. They had the luxury to take their time and take risks. The Suns don't. Attendance was suffering with the golden boy still here. It was largely a result of their own bad moves, but throwing in the towel on purpose might have been a death knell.

• I don't think we're much more than a .500 ball club as currently constructed. We'll be exactly like the Rockets of the last couple years. There's a chance though, that this collection of guys totally gels and it just works. There's also a chance the opposite happens and someone gets fired.

• It's hard for teams without a legitimate star to do well. Denver seemed to do really well last year, but still got beat in the 1st round of the playoffs. If you look at their roster they are probably still more talented than we are at almost every position. If we call Lawson / Dragic a wash the rest are probably in Denver's favor. McGee / Gortat? He's a bonehead, but has all the talent in the world, hard to take Gortat here. Gallo / Beasley? Maybe closer than you think, but who wouldn't take Gallo here. Faried / Morris? No brainer. Chandler / Dudley? Love Dudley, but might have to go Chandler here too. Even their bench is better. My point is that we're clearly behind Denver talent wise, and they're behind OKC, SAS, LAL, LAC, and MEM. We'll fight with Dallas, Utah, Minnesota, and Houston for 6-8.

• Irregardless isn't a word even if spellcheck doesn't highlight it.

Agree with most of this. As I said before, I like a lot of these players. Of course getting really bad isn't any guarantee of being capable of drafting the right players to build a championship squad.

That being said, my nagging fear is that I can think of a lot more teams that built championships around top 5 picks, than those who acquired a bunch of decent to good players and continued getting late lottery picks.

Sometimes, purgatory is worse than heaven or hell.

 

[Mainstreet]

If one looks at more recent Suns stars that the Suns drafted, they were drafted later than top 5. Some are Dan Majerle, Steve Nash, Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudemire. The Suns traded for Kevin Johnson, Joe Johnson and Charles Barkley. Also the Suns signed Tom Chambers as a free agent.

I guess one could argue that since these players were not top 5 picks, this is the reason the Suns have not won a championship, but it does prove that a combination of wise drafting, free agency and key trades can get a team near the top as well.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If one looks at more recent Suns stars that the Suns drafted, they were drafted later than top 5. Some are Dan Majerle, Steve Nash, Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudemire. The Suns traded for Kevin Johnson, Joe Johnson and Charles Barkley. Also the Suns signed Tom Chambers as a free agent.

I guess one could argue that since these players were not top 5 picks, this is the reason the Suns have not won a championship, but it does prove that a combination of wise drafting, free agency and key trades can get a team near the top as well.

unfortunately, the mastermind behind ALL of those moves is long gone and now we have people who I just don't trust in power. People giving horrific contracts to Childress, Warricks, Frye's and taking what i believe to be career backups in the lottery while passing on the Faried's/Leonards and God only knows who they passed on this year that will be better than Marshall.

oh, and how did the entire KJ, Barkley, Majerle team gets built up? By bottoming out and trading Larry Nance who was our best commodity. That move not only led us into the lottery (where we got Majerle and Tim Perry who was the second big piece in the Barkley deal) but it also got us KJ.

 

[Phrazbit]

I dont hate Scola the player, and if this were the Suns of the last few years, I'd like it. However, given the direction we are going I dont think it makes sense to add on a 32 year old in decline who wont even be eligible to be traded for a year.

And if wont dont get Mayo then even winning 30 games is a stretch. Having Nash made winning look a lot easier than it was.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I dont hate Scola the player, and if this were the Suns of the last few years, I'd like it. However, given the direction we are going I dont think it makes sense to add on a 32 year old in decline who wont even be eligible to be traded for a year.

And if wont dont get Mayo then even winning 30 games is a stretch. Having Nash made winning look a lot easier than it was.

So your objection to this move is solely based on "It hurts our ability to be worse more this year"? His age has nothing to do with his tradability.

His tradability is solely based on that he represents cap space for any team in a year (including our own).

 

[Phrazbit]

So your objection to this move is solely based on "It hurts our ability to be worse more this year"? His age has nothing to do with his tradability.

His tradability is solely based on that he represents cap space for any team in a year (including our own).

No, we literally cant trade him for a full year. Thats how these kinds of claims work. So they only value he has as an asset is the hope that in another year he wont have further declined and will be a valuable to someone. AND that trade has to come after the draft, so its not even like he will be on the table when the best moves are an option.

 

[SunsTzu]

No, we literally cant trade him for a full year. Thats how these kinds of claims work. So they only value he has as an asset is the hope that in another year he wont have further declined and will be a valuable to someone. AND that trade has to come after the draft, so its not even like he will be on the table when the best moves are an option.

Teams can trade the rights of a drafted player after the draft as long as they aren't signed. It is entirely conceivable that the Suns could use him to get a player from next years draft.

I find it hard to believe Scola will have a big enough decline this upcoming season to where he isn't a significant asset at 4.5mil with either a 440k buyout or 4.9mil salary the following year.

 

[Phrazbit]

Teams can trade the rights of a drafted player after the draft as long as they aren't signed. It is entirely conceivable that the Suns could use him to get a player from next years draft.

I find it hard to believe Scola will have a big enough decline this upcoming season to where he isn't a significant asset at 4.5mil with either a 440k buyout or 4.9mil salary the following year.

Whats your definition of an asset? Will he get us anything of value? I doubt it. He declined significantly last year. I dont see him suddenly rebounding to previously levels of play out of the blue at his age.

Could we get like... a late first round pick? Maybe. I'd be okay with that, but thats the most I could imagine.

 

[Griffin]

unfortunately, the mastermind behind ALL of those moves is long gone and now we have people who I just don't trust in power. People giving horrific contracts to Childress, Warricks, Frye's and taking what i believe to be career backups in the lottery while passing on the Faried's/Leonards and God only knows who they passed on this year that will be better than Marshall.

But in that case even if the Suns made every effort to lose as many games as possible next year in order to secure a high draft pick, their incompetence would inevitably result in them wasting that pick on a bust or trading it away and so the team would end up in the same place. How is it that they are less likely to fail if they completely bottom out?

oh, and how did the entire KJ, Barkley, Majerle team gets built up? By bottoming out and trading Larry Nance who was our best commodity. That move not only led us into the lottery (where we got Majerle and Tim Perry who was the second big piece in the Barkley deal) but it also got us KJ.

But they didn't really bottom out. Prior to trading Nance, they were winning about 35 games a year. They finally traded Nance mid-season and ended up with #7 pick as a result (Perry) which could very well be where the Suns will draft this season after trading Nash. They ended up with KJ and Majerle as a result of the trade, and signed 29-year old Chambers (same age as Nance) in the off-season to replace Nance. The next year they were back in playoffs and winning 50+ games. They rebuilt that team in half a season and didn't go back to the lottery for the next 13 years.

 

[elindholm]

They ended up with KJ and Majerle as a result of the trade, and signed 29-year old Chambers (same age as Nance) in the off-season to replace Nance.

The importance of the Chambers signing often goes overlooked. People talk about trading Nance for Johnson and nailing a couple of draft picks, but Chambers was huge. The guy was a top-five scorer in the league and (literally) the first unrestricted free agent in NBA history. Among all the right moves that Colangelo made to create the strong Suns teams of the late 80s and early 90s, recruiting Chambers was probably the most important. Otherwise, the team is Johnson and role players, and they would not have been in a credible position to swing for the fences with Barkley a few years later.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

No, we literally cant trade him for a full year. Thats how these kinds of claims work. So they only value he has as an asset is the hope that in another year he wont have further declined and will be a valuable to someone. AND that trade has to come after the draft, so its not even like he will be on the table when the best moves are an option.

His decline has nothing to do with his value. His value is a contract buyout.

 

[Phrazbit]

His decline has nothing to do with his value. His value is a contract buyout.

What value do you expect to get for a 4 million contract buyout? A late first? A guy under-performing on an equally sized contract? There isnt much value there.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

What value do you expect to get for a 4 million contract buyout? A late first? A guy under-performing on an equally sized contract? There isnt much value there.

It would be part of a puzzle. Things like this let you be a facilitator in 3 team trades and get back picks. You don't necessarily have to have cap space to be a facilitator. You see trades for contract buyouts all the time.

 

[i am the bad guy]

It would be part of a puzzle. Things like this let you be a facilitator in 3 team trades and get back picks. You don't necessarily have to have cap space to be a facilitator. You see trades for contract buyouts all the time.

This point exactly. More than likely its just a piece in a trade. Having contracts that help to match salaries in the NBA is huge. Especially when its to match salary, for a team that just wants an expiring or a buy out option.
Warrick for example is actually a trade asset as a team may want to trade for him as he has a team option in his contract after this season.(If i'm understanding Warrick's contract correctly )

 

[elindholm]

It would be part of a puzzle. Things like this let you be a facilitator in 3 team trades and get back picks. You don't necessarily have to have cap space to be a facilitator. You see trades for contract buyouts all the time.

Yes, but the new CBA has considerably relaxed the salary-matching requirements on trades. Expiring or quasi-expiring contracts are going to have less and less value over the coming years, especially for the small numbers that Scola will be making.

The Suns need to view the value of contracts in terms of how much the player involved actually improves the basketball team, not by how the contract might be parlayed into some comparably mediocre asset down the road.

 

[carey]

This is silly. A year and a half ago Shane Battier was traded to Memphis for Thabeet and a first round pick. He was 32 at the time. There is always a demand for smart and savvy veterans. Especially those on an expiring deal. Let Morris learn from a true back to the basket player and then move him at the deadline next year. I'll eat my hat if we don't get a first or something comparable. His play would have to fall off a cliff.

 

[elindholm]

This is silly. A year and a half ago Shane Battier was traded to Memphis for Thabeet and a first round pick. He was 32 at the time. There is always a demand for smart and savvy veterans.

Sure, depending on what they bring to the table. Battier was still a pretty good perimeter defender then, who could hit the occasional three. But more to the point, he has the reputation of a high-character guy, someone who improves team chemistry. Scola is widely regarded as a turd.

Especially those on an expiring deal.

I think that's relevant only if the new team is thinking that their window is about to close. My guess is that Memphis would have been just as happy to have Battier for an extra year.

But that's not the point. If Scola can play, then yes, he'll have trade value, especially at his low salary. If he can't play, then the fact that is contract is "expiring" won't increase his value.

 

[Chaplin]

Sure, depending on what they bring to the table. Battier was still a pretty good perimeter defender then, who could hit the occasional three. But more to the point, he has the reputation of a high-character guy, someone who improves team chemistry. Scola is widely regarded as a turd.

By who? That is the complete opposite of everything I've heard. Other than the flopping thing, which you already have stated you hate, what makes him a "turd"?

 

[SweetD]

By who? That is the complete opposite of everything I've heard. Other than the flopping thing, which you already have stated you hate, what makes him a "turd"?

Maybe his 15points and 6.7 Rebounds a game?

I mean Battier did at least put up 7 points and 3 Rebounds again.

 

[elindholm]

By who? That is the complete opposite of everything I've heard. Other than the flopping thing, which you already have stated you hate, what makes him a "turd"?

He's dirty at close to a Bruce Bowen level. I've watched him a fair amount, because I had him on a fantasy team. He'll probably be the dirtiest player in Suns history, and that's including Bell's gratuitous clothesline of Bryant.

 

[Chaplin]

He's dirty at close to a Bruce Bowen level. I've watched him a fair amount, because I had him on a fantasy team. He'll probably be the dirtiest player in Suns history, and that's including Bell's gratuitous clothesline of Bryant.

You think Scola is dirtier than Bell? I just can't respond to that other than I disagree. He's a flopper, I agree with that. But dirty like Bruce Bowen?