Suns @ Clippers 11-28-18

[JCSunsfan]

i don't know why you're losing your objectivity on Igor
if he started Canaan last week and fired Canaan today (instead of benching him) it means he's not consistent, which is what you said you liked about him.

and what up with Okobo?
he rightfully gave Okobo a start a month ago
didn't play him at all last week
and started him today

Did you hear Igor in his pre-game interview? He explained exactly what he is doing. He said that these young players need to know what to expect in order to develop. So he is keeping substitution patterns rigid. He sets roles and then sticks with them. He doesn’t yank quickly players just because they are playing poorly. When he does decide to make a change, he does it and not just piece meal.

You might not agree with the approach, but it is not a haphazard approach.

The one time Okobo start a month ago was injury related was it not?

 

[JCSunsfan]

just finished watching the game. another one where there wasn't a whole lot of dog in Ayton's fight.

and jesus... Ariza somehow is becoming my most beloathed Sun ever.

Is it about fouls? Once Ayton gets a couple early fouls he seems to go into ballerina mode. I am sure he has never seen anything like Boban before.

I don’t know what to say about Ariza. There were signs of this last year in the playoffs though.

 

[Bufalay]

Ariza has always sucked

 

[TJ]

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Ayton played like dogshit last night, but at least the dude is self-aware enough to know he needs to get better.

 

[taz02]

What Igor said makes sense. Lets face it we are not winning this year. It makes sense, if you are trying to develop young guys to give them a clearly defined role and stick with them through their mistakes to build confidence. A steady approach will be better long term. The Ariza situation is baffling though....

Ayton will have ups and downs. This specific game is no big deal but overall he is not being used properly. We need a defensive PF who can rebound and score inside if Ayton is going to continue to play finesse ball away from the basket.

What about Holmes and Ayton playing together. Move Ariza to the bench and put Holmes out there with Ayton.

 

[1tinsoldier]

It makes sense, if you are trying to develop young guys to give them a clearly defined role and stick with them through their mistakes to build confidence. A steady approach will be better long term.
...
What about Holmes and Ayton playing together.

as i said,
there's nothing steady or clearly defined about starting Canaan last week and cutting him yesterday
or starting Okobo last month, not playing him at all last week, and starting him yesterday
or starting JJ instead of TJ when TJ had earned it and JJ hadn't
to point out a few of many examples

i also suggested playing Holmes and Ayton together some, but i'm afraid it would take more strategy to balance out their roles than this coach is capable of.

 

[WildBB]

Really? Cutting Canaan, buying out Tyson, demoting Anderson to DNP’s, benching Bender permanently—that’s not holding players accountable?

The way a coach holds players accountable is with playing time, but you do have to put five players on the floor.

I'm talking THAT game. In real time. Holmes was doing ok at least against Harrell. He could have let the more physical player deal with Harrell. Don't think Ayton got any confidence being in that stretch run last night.

 

[WildBB]

Why in God's name would you give Ariza any playing time, let alone have him as a starter and finisher, the way he has played in all but 2 games this year?

He can still hit a three, get a rebound and guard, although he has issues with putting a body on anyone. Jacksons time is coming soon. Bridges is already getting just as much time.

 

[WildBB]

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Ayton played like dogshit last night, but at least the dude is self-aware enough to know he needs to get better.

He needs to step up other parts of his game when he struggles offensively. He couldn't. Not against physical play. Not yet.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He needs to step up other parts of his game when he struggles offensively. He couldn't. Not against physical play. Not yet.

With his gifts he should never struggle offensively because he can force action and get to the free throw line where he’s pretty good. He just doesn’t have that mindset.

 

[Mainstreet]

Has the concept of positionless basketball players carried over to coaching?

It is logical that it would. Unless they are both illogical.

There is some truth to this especially the first sentence. The game still needs physical players inside.

 

[WildBB]

With his gifts he should never struggle offensively because he can force action and get to the free throw line where he’s pretty good. He just doesn’t have that mindset.

He was struggling All game. That's what I have the problem with. They need to get him involved early. The guards need to know that. He also has to be more active. He's a good passer he needs to touch the ball every time down just about. Don't like too much one on one that they have a tendency to do for stretches.

 

[JCSunsfan]

as i said,
there's nothing steady or clearly defined about starting Canaan last week and cutting him yesterday
or starting Okobo last month, not playing him at all last week, and starting him yesterday
or starting JJ instead of TJ when TJ had earned it and JJ hadn't
to point out a few of many examples

i also suggested playing Holmes and Ayton together some, but i'm afraid it would take more strategy to balance out their roles than this coach is capable of.

It is what he said he is doing so your argument is with Igor.

As far as Canaan. Let's just speculate for a moment. Let's just say that Igor knows that Okobo is better than Canaan but he is a rookie and new to this country. Starting him or giving him big minutes right away could really hurt him. He also has Canaan as his vet at pg. He knows he is not the long term answer and he is probably going to cut him before his contract is guaranteed in January. But he ties to get as much out of him for a month or two so he can get his rookie pg ready for regular minutes. But Canaan just could not get it going even as a stop gap starter. So, he has to move on earlier than he really wanted to. His next plan is to have Booker start and Mikal play the 2. Okobo can come off the bench. Okobo can do that as long as the starter burden is not on him. If Okobo is the back up point guard, there is no point in keeping Canaan. The Suns needed Canaan as a temporary starter. They have enough back up point guards.

That would seem to fit with what happened.

 

[1Sun]

He can still hit a three, get a rebound and guard, although he has issues with putting a body on anyone. Jacksons time is coming soon. Bridges is already getting just as much time.

He might be capable of that theoretically, but outside of a couple of games, Ariza has done precisely none of that for us. He quit on the team after the first game of the year and other than a game and a half in Philadelphia and Milwaukee has put forth absolutely no effort. He doesn't deserve another minute of playing time for the Suns any more than Eric Bledsoe deserved any after his disgusting display at the beginning of last season.

 

[1Sun]

It is what he said he is doing so your argument is with Igor.

As far as Canaan. Let's just speculate for a moment. Let's just say that Igor knows that Okobo is better than Canaan but he is a rookie and new to this country. Starting him or giving him big minutes right away could really hurt him. He also has Canaan as his vet at pg. He knows he is not the long term answer and he is probably going to cut him before his contract is guaranteed in January. But he ties to get as much out of him for a month or two so he can get his rookie pg ready for regular minutes. But Canaan just could not get it going even as a stop gap starter. So, he has to move on earlier than he really wanted to. His next plan is to have Booker start and Mikal play the 2. Okobo can come off the bench. Okobo can do that as long as the starter burden is not on him. If Okobo is the back up point guard, there is no point in keeping Canaan. The Suns needed Canaan as a temporary starter. They have enough back up point guards.

That would seem to fit with what happened.

Agreed, except I am pretty darn sure that Kokoskov had no intention of moving on, and ownership forced his hand.

 

[Mainstreet]

For the lack of a better word, Ayton was intimidated by Boban and probably Harrell too.

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[Mainstreet]

I fault the coaching to a degree by not getting Ayton some easy baskets like on drives to the hoop.

He needed a confidence boost.

 

[95pro]

This was probably the game where the high pick and roles would have done better. I didn't watch the game mostly, just a thought.

 

[1Sun]

I fault the coaching to a degree by not getting Ayton some easy baskets like on drives to the hoop.

He needed a confidence boost.

Indeed. Sorry if anyone thinks I am beating a dead horse, but with each passing game, I get more and more of an Earl Watson vibe from Igor Kokoskov.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

For the lack of a better word, Ayton was intimidated by Boban and probably Harrell too.

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I agree. He was intimidated by two very physical players. I’m saddened by this fact.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I fault the coaching to a degree by not getting Ayton some easy baskets like on drives to the hoop.

He needed a confidence boost.

Let me ask you, how often have we seen Ayton actually drive to the hoop? His athleticism should dictate that he would excel at it, but I’m not sure we’ve seen him exhibit this skill consistently.

 

[Covert Rain]

Let me ask you, how often have we seen Ayton actually drive to the hoop? His athleticism should dictate that he would excel at it, but I’m not sure we’ve seen him exhibit this skill consistently.

I watched every minute of the game. Here is what was frustrating. Why are they not running the offense through Ayton on the block? Almost every time they setup the offense, it starts with Ayton setting a high screen at the top of the key. He then waits at the top of the key for the rest of the play to develop. Ayton doesn't have to drive to the hoop to be effective. Let him setup down low.

Last night on the telecast they were saying Ayton's numbers are only rivaled by two other rookie centers offensively. So, why the hell are they not running the offense through Ayton?

This team chucks up shots like they have 3 Steph Curry's. There is only one Steph Curry. It was so frustrating to watch. How is the kid going to get better on the block unless they keep giving it to him on the block?!?

I would like to see Ayton be the first option. If that doesn't work, Booker should be your second option. Yes, I know Booker is the better player right now but feeding Ayton down low should be a priority. If that doesn't go well you still have Booker.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Let me ask you, how often have we seen Ayton actually drive to the hoop? His athleticism should dictate that he would excel at it, but I’m not sure we’ve seen him exhibit this skill consistently.

He doesn't do it even when the defender is giving him a lot of room. I can understand being uncomfortable putting the ball on the floor in traffic but I've watched him just settle for the jumper from the free throw line even though he's got a good 6 feet of empty space to work with. He's willing to make a one dribble move when he's within range of the rim but he doesn't seem willing to use even that same move from further out.

 

[1Sun]

I watched every minute of the game. Here is what was frustrating. Why are they not running the offense through Ayton on the block? Almost every time they setup the offense, it starts with Ayton setting a high screen at the top of the key. He then waits at the top of the key for the rest of the play to develop. Ayton doesn't have to drive to the hoop to be effective. Let him setup down low.

Last night on the telecast they were saying Ayton's numbers are only rivaled by two other rookie centers offensively. So, why the hell are they not running the offense through Ayton?

This team chucks up shots like they have 3 Steph Curry's. There is only one Steph Curry. It was so frustrating to watch. How is the kid going to get better on the block unless they keep giving it to him on the block?!?

I would like to see Ayton be the first option. If that doesn't work, Booker should be your second option. Yes, I know Booker is the better player right now but feeding Ayton down low should be a priority. If that doesn't go well you still have Booker.

Pretty darn obvious, and this coach just can't seem to get it.

 

[SirStefan32]

I agree. He was intimidated by two very physical players. I’m saddened by this fact.

Well, me too, but keep in mind that his entire life, Ayton has been the biggest, strongest, tallest player anywhere he's played. He has never gone up against anyone 2-3 inches taller and 40-50 lb heavier (Boban), or anyone nearly as strong as Harrell. While I am saddened by this, I am not really surprised.

EDIT:
Also, Boban can play. He is not a scrub. He hasn't played much because there isn't much room for someone that big in the NBA game the last few years, but in his career, he is averaging almost six points and four rebounds in nine minutes. He is easy to exploit with speed, athleticism, and shooting, but make no mistake, Boban can play.