Suns, Eric Bledsoe Far Apart In Talks

[Sci Fi]

How many players have inflated defensive stats as a result of playing in our system? I'm so tired of us being at or near the bottom of the league defensively and Bledsoe single-handedly put an end to that. I know he's not the prettiest point guard/combo guard in the league. But the facts are, we win at a high rate when he and Goran are healthy and we are a .500 team when one of them is missing. If we lose him for anything less than a star level player, we've taken a step back. The fact we gave up just Jared Dudley matters not - we'll be a lesser team without him.

Steve

Nope. When Barbosa played with Dragic, the Suns were almost as good. The Suns just really need a good second fiddle to accompany. Thomas is more than capable. Much, much more than capable. With a thomas and Dragic backcourt, I expect a top 3 offense. Maybe the best. He's better than Bledsoe. The defensive loss will be easily adjusted.

Dragic is the key. You're betting on the wrong horse.

 

[Sci Fi]

thank god you don't work for the Suns.

You don't like good teams?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Nope. When Barbosa played with Dragic, the Suns were almost as good. The Suns just really need a good second fiddle to accompany. Thomas is more than capable. Much, much more than capable. With a thomas and Dragic backcourt, I expect a top 3 offense. Maybe the best. He's better than Bledsoe. The defensive loss will be easily adjusted.

Dragic is the key. You're betting on the wrong horse.

Those wins came against a very easy schedule and they occurred right after Bledsoe's injury. It's only in hindsight that anyone would even think to suggest that Barbosa's presence had any bearing on those games. He averaged 18 minutes and was mostly a non-factor. But you're right, Dragic was the key and for that stretch Goran played like a superstar. It didn't last long, Goran came down to earth a few weeks after Leandro went down and he never returned to that superstar level again.

I've been a Suns fan since they were first announced. In all those years I've yet to see this "adjustment for a defensive loss" that you mention so I'm thinking it's not as easy as you suggest. And you lose all credibility when you suggest we trade Bledsoe for George Hill. I don't mean that as rhetoric either. Hill is someone you trade a couple of 2nd round picks for and then wonder who got the better end of the deal.

Steve

 

[BC867]

You don't like good teams?

Good response.

Or a team that should be vying for contending in the playoffs starting next season.

With our tremendous advancement last season (despite another Bledsoe setback), there should be no turning back.

'Just a reminder that when Bledsoe came back which, in effect, demoted Dragic, we dropped out of a playoff spot.

 

[SirStefan32]

Nope. When Barbosa played with Dragic, the Suns were almost as good. The Suns just really need a good second fiddle to accompany. Thomas is more than capable. Much, much more than capable. With a thomas and Dragic backcourt, I expect a top 3 offense. Maybe the best. He's better than Bledsoe. The defensive loss will be easily adjusted.

Dragic is the key. You're betting on the wrong horse.

I agree with everything but that one sentence. There is a significant drop in defense between Bledsoe and Thomas. While we (Suns fans) tend to overrate our defenders, and Bledsoe is likely a bit overrated defensively, he is a better defender than Thomas and Dragic combined. Thomas is also much more undersized at PG than Bledsoe is at PG or Dragic at SG.

I still don't want Bledsoe on the roster, but if you think defense will not suffer, you'll be in for a surprise.

 

[SirStefan32]

Good response.

Or a team that should be vying for contending in the playoffs starting next season.

With our tremendous advancement last season (despite another Bledsoe setback), there should be no turning back.

'Just a reminder that when Bledsoe came back which, in effect, demoted Dragic, we dropped out of a playoff spot.

Eh, I'd argue that Dragic was also getting banged up and burned out in addition to being demoted. I love Goran, but he wasn't used to playing during the summer and than carrying his team for most of the season.

Again, I don't disagree with you, but just pointing out there were other factors- Dragic burning out and Frye disappearing, mainly.

 

[SO91]

Here's 2 trades I would be interested in.

S&T Bledsoe for George Hill. I think his game is an excellent fit along side Dragic and Thomas. Good defender who can guard the 1 or 2. Could guard 2's with Thomas and 1's or 2's with Dragic depending upon matchups. Very good shooter
with a very low TO rate. Will clearly play at the 2 so no confusion. I also like his contract. 3 years at 8 mill per. Duration and amount are both good. Hey, and Pop loved him. I'd be ecstatic with this trade.

S&T Bledsoe for Nash plus a Laker future first (2017?) and several seconds. Why? I know this is Steve's last year but I think he still could be an excellent back-up for 15-18 minutes. He could outplay Ennis in his sleep. I also think he'd be a HUGE boost to team chemistry (the Anti-Bledsoe). His help could be the difference between a playoff spot or not. And if things went well, maybe he'd stick around on the cheap for a year or two. As to the future picks, I'd expect they could have huge value. The Lakers are fast becoming a dumpster fire. This trade would just add a little gasoline. Bledsoe thinks he can lead a team. Problem is, he can't. In 2017 with no Kobe, it will turn ugly.

Rumor I saw was Hibbert, Copeland and money for Dragic. Phoenix rejected the offer.

 

[SirStefan32]

No way would I give up Dragic for Hibbert but I'd think about Bledsoe.
Hibbert regressed last year and really hasn't made any progress since he got his contract, but I wonder if he would do well in a fast-paced style.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Good response.

Or a team that should be vying for contending in the playoffs starting next season.

With our tremendous advancement last season (despite another Bledsoe setback), there should be no turning back.

'Just a reminder that when Bledsoe came back which, in effect, demoted Dragic, we dropped out of a playoff spot.

Sorry but you're just playing games with history when you do this. We had just gone 3 - 6 in the stretch before Eric returned. When Bledsoe came back, we went 12 - 7. That's an incredible turnaround and we did it against a very tough schedule down the stretch.

Stev

 

[Sci Fi]

Sorry but you're just playing games with history when you do this. We had just gone 3 - 6 in the stretch before Eric returned. When Bledsoe came back, we went 12 - 7. That's an incredible turnaround and we did it against a very tough schedule down the stretch.

Stev

teve,

You're becoming so unobjective that you can't even spell your own name!

 

[devilalum]

How many players have inflated defensive stats as a result of playing in our system? I'm so tired of us being at or near the bottom of the league defensively and Bledsoe single-handedly put an end to that. I know he's not the prettiest point guard/combo guard in the league. But the facts are, we win at a high rate when he and Goran are healthy and we are a .500 team when one of them is missing. If we lose him for anything less than a star level player, we've taken a step back. The fact we gave up just Jared Dudley matters not - we'll be a lesser team without him.

Steve

After about 30 games when ranking players Bill Simmons was saying that the combo of Bledsoe and Dragic was as untouchable as Lebron or Durrant. My take on that was that the two of them playing together and completely buying into the system was hugely greater than the sum of their parts.

I don't think either one of them will ever be as dominant by himself as they are together. But how do you fault a young guy from wanting to be a star on his own? Dragic has the kind of laid back more mature attitude that you need to be a part of something like that. Bledsoe?

 

[Mainstreet]

Sorry but you're just playing games with history when you do this. We had just gone 3 - 6 in the stretch before Eric returned. When Bledsoe came back, we went 12 - 7. That's an incredible turnaround and we did it against a very tough schedule down the stretch.

Stev

Could that be because the Suns were firing on two cylinders when Bledsoe came back instead of one.

 

[AzStevenCal]

No way would I give up Dragic for Hibbert but I'd think about Bledsoe.
Hibbert regressed last year and really hasn't made any progress since he got his contract, but I wonder if he would do well in a fast-paced style.

I wouldn't give up anything for Hibbert. I'd love to have his rim protection (when he's engaged) but the negatives scare me away. The negatives being: David Falk, 15 million a year plus a 15% trade kicker, mental midget, slow-footed and probably only 1 season left on contract (player option for 2nd year).

Steve

 

[devilalum]

Eh, I'd argue that Dragic was also getting banged up and burned out in addition to being demoted. I love Goran, but he wasn't used to playing during the summer and than carrying his team for most of the season.

Again, I don't disagree with you, but just pointing out there were other factors- Dragic burning out and Frye disappearing, mainly.

Yeah, while Bledsoe was out Dragic played big minutes and got banged around a lot. He was looking pretty burned out there at one point. Bringing in Thomas will allow the Suns to play the crazy style they started so strong with at the start of the year without burning anybody out.

IF, Bledsoe is back.

 

[BC867]

I agree with everything but that one sentence. There is a significant drop in defense between Bledsoe and Thomas. While we (Suns fans) tend to overrate our defenders, and Bledsoe is likely a bit overrated defensively, he is a better defender than Thomas and Dragic combined. Thomas is also much more undersized at PG than Bledsoe is at PG or Dragic at SG.

I still don't want Bledsoe on the roster, but if you think defense will not suffer, you'll be in for a surprise.

"Thomas is also much more undersized at PG than Bledsoe is at PG or Dragic at SG."

Ah, the legacy of being a Suns fan. One is less undersized than the other, who is less undersized than the third. Sadly, that pretty much sums up the Suns history, one way or another.

I wish there were a WMLB to root for during the NBA season as there is our WNBA team on its way to its third championship during the MLB season.

"For its root root root for the home team" is supposed to be an outlet to prevent ulcers, not cause them.

"Thomas is also much more undersized at PG than Bledsoe is at PG or Dragic at SG." How true! How sad!

 

[AzStevenCal]

Could that be because the Suns were firing on two cylinders when Bledsoe came back instead of one.

I'm not really sure what you're asking here? If you're asking whether I'm crediting our late season play to Bledsoe or the fact we gave Dragic some help I'd go with something near the latter. Dragic was our better player, even when they both played, but the gap was pretty small IMO. Goran repeatedly talked about how much easier it was to play the game with Eric playing next to him. AFAIC, they both need each other.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yeah, while Bledsoe was out Dragic played big minutes and got banged around a lot. He was looking pretty burned out there at one point. Bringing in Thomas will allow the Suns to play the crazy style they started so strong with at the start of the year without burning anybody out.

IF, Bledsoe is back.

That didn't happen. Maybe you can make the case that we called on him to do more during those minutes but his time on the court stayed pretty even throughout the season.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not really sure what you're asking here? If you're asking whether I'm crediting our late season play to Bledsoe or the fact we gave Dragic some help I'd go with something near the latter. Dragic was our better player, even when they both played, but the gap was pretty small IMO. Goran repeatedly talked about how much easier it was to play the game with Eric playing next to him. AFAIC, they both need each other.

Steve

I was just saying the Suns started playing better when Bledsoe returned. Sort of like it takes two to dance.

 

[AzStevenCal]

teve,

You're becoming so unobjective that you can't even spell your own name!

Yeah, I need to replace my keyboard. Seriously, if it weren't for the "edit" option, I'd misspell my name most of the time. It usually drops an "e" but the "s" key is the second biggest problem. I'm just too lazy to buy another keyboard.

Steve

 

[Sci Fi]

I was just saying the Suns started playing better when Bledsoe returned. Sort of like it takes two to dance.

And this is really the heart of the matter. Is it Dragic and another or is it only Dragic and Bledsoe.

The saddest part is that I believe the real answer is that Dragic, Bledsoe and Thomas together would absolutely wreck havoc. But it would take the three truly working together. Sadly, Bledsoe has larger, more personal goals. Working together isn't his style.

Give me George Hill! Seriously. Let Bledsoe f@ck up Indianapolis. Or the Lakers. I don't care. Just get his ass out of town.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I was just saying the Suns started playing better when Bledsoe returned. Sort of like it takes two to dance.

Well, sure, it's hard for any team to lose 1 of its 2 best players and continue to play at a high level. Teams can sometimes make adjustments that cover the loss for the short run but it's very tough to sustain.

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

Ah, George Hill fits perfectly.

A better shooter, less turnovers and still excellent defense. Cheaper and with less injury risk or contract length. And, with Thomas being a better offensive player than Bledsoe by a reasonable margin, this team could be special. And(!), Greg Popovich loved him so we know he's a good team player.

Make it so, Ryan!

Its pretty safe to say that George Hill is worse than Bledsoe in every aspect, offense included, and by a reasonable margin. George Hill was a serious weak link for that team, its not a coinsidence that they've been exploring trade options for a better PG.

Good response.

Or a team that should be vying for contending in the playoffs starting next season.

With our tremendous advancement last season (despite another Bledsoe setback), there should be no turning back.

'Just a reminder that when Bledsoe came back which, in effect, demoted Dragic, we dropped out of a playoff spot.

Sigh...

The Suns went 17-16 while he was out. The Suns were 1 1/2 games out of the playoffs when Bledsoe returned, they went Suns went 12-7 from that point on and finished 1 game out.

Its pretty clear that letting Bledsoe go without a substantial return will be a significant "turning back".

 

[FutureSuperstar]

If the goal is to trade Bledsoe, better to do it now while he's healthy.

Well, there's a few counters to that point:

1. He's not healthy. He's coming off a season in which he missed 40 games. Sure there's a chance he's not healthy next yr., but Bledsoe's "value" is more likely to increase than decrease come next offseason in my opinion
2. I am assuming the Suns can strike a deal for about 12 million / yr. ... Trading him now is MUCH harder because he would only want to be traded IF he can get more than that ... A team will more likely want to trade for Bledsoe next offseason when he's making 12 million/yr. than strike a deal w/ him THIS offseason for close to MAX
3. The positive of doing it next offseason is ... we have him for 1 more season! I'm not sure if Ennis/Goodwin are ready yet to play major roles - They'll be better prepared to play more next yr.

My main pt. is that the fact that PHX is stacked at guards should play no factor in their desire/need to sign Bledsoe ... His injury problems are a concern - I just disagree w/ some people thinking "We are stacked anyway at guards. We don't need him" - Those people aren't considering trades can happen down the line to free up room for Ennis/Goodwin

And also I'm not saying you plan on trading Bledsoe in 2015 - I'm just saying it's an option ... Maybe you trade Ennis/Goodwin instead? ... Or don't resign Green? ... Or trade Thomas? ... Or don't give Dragic the Max? ... I'm just saying there's options to get rid of our glut of guards down the line

 

[Sci Fi]

Its pretty safe to say that George Hill is worse than Bledsoe in every aspect, offense included, and by a reasonable margin. George Hill was a serious weak link for that team, its not a coinsidence that they've been exploring trade options for a better PG.

You're mistaking need for the Pacers and need for the Suns. They are different.

Sigh...

The Suns went 17-16 while he was out. The Suns were 1 1/2 games out of the playoffs when Bledsoe returned, they went Suns went 12-7 from that point on and finished 1 game out.

Its pretty clear that letting Bledsoe go without a substantial return will be a significant "turning back".

Sigh all you want.

There is nothing clear.

You're missing what the Suns need. Just like last year.

Right now the Suns need a rotation that will work together.

That EXCLUDES Eric Bledsoe. He's all for himself.

Give me George Hill. Pop loved him for his love of TEAM!

Make it so Ryan!

 

[Sci Fi]

Well, there's a few counters to that point:



And also I'm not saying you plan on trading Bledsoe in 2015 - I'm just saying it's an option ... Maybe you trade Ennis/Goodwin instead? ... Or don't resign Green? ... Or trade Thomas? ... Or don't give Dragic the Max? ... I'm just saying there's options to get rid of our glut of guards down the line

Please stop including Goodwin in the "glut of guards" until he is actually an NBA level player.