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Uh... Then we wouldn't sign him after the season. Didn't think that needed explaining.
Suns, Eric Bledsoe Far Apart In Talks
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Uh... Then we wouldn't sign him after the season. Didn't think that needed explaining.
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So you don't think having Bird rights versus not having Bird rights has value?
Steve
I do not believe that is the case. We hold no rights once he fishes the QO. From an NBA Rules site, if a player signs a qualifying offer:
he can sign his original team's qualifying offer, which constitutes a one-year contract at a scale salary. He must then play with his original team for one season, and following that season he will become a free agent
We get nothing and hold no rights after it's complete. If there is an exception to this rule I can't find it.
Why would it have value if the Suns are not over the cap? The exception allows teams to exceed the cap in order to re-sign their own free agents, up to the player's maximum salary.
elindholm
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Yes, but it doesn't give them any trading leverage.
elindholm
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What are you talking about? I'm responding specifically to your comment that the Suns will have less leverage in a trade during the season than they will afterward. There are no Bird rights in play for a sign-and-trade scenario in the summer after a one-year QO contract. That's the whole point.
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Then I have misunderstood. I thought the Bird rights disappear if we trade him while he's on the QO but that we could still do a sign and trade with him as an unrestricted free agent. And there's no reason for him to lose his Bird rights in that situation. I can't find any mention of the sign and trade rules being any different between RFA and UFA status.
Steve
elindholm
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I think I misunderstood what you meant by "leverage and flexibility."
The Suns are going to have a very difficult time engineering a trade mid-season if Bledsoe is on the one-year QO. Firstly, he'd have to agree to it; secondly, his new team would have to have a plan for re-signing him, which would be difficult if they didn't have a lot of cap space.
If Bledsoe takes the QO and stays with the Suns for a year, then the Suns would be able to facilitate a sign-and-trade with another team, because the Suns would have Bledsoe's Bird rights. Then the other team would only have to come up with an appealing, comparable amount of salary to send back to Phoenix for the trade.
So yes, they will have more flexibility in the summer than they would during the season. I got confused by your use of the word "leverage." I don't see the leverage changing. If another team wants Bledsoe, they've got to put together a good trade package for him. If the Suns like the offer, they agree; otherwise they don't. But there's no change in their leverage according to Bledsoe's contract status.
I guess I was being too literal. I don't see them as having any more leverage in the summer than during the season, but you're right that they would have more flexibility, in the sense that more trade partners would potentially be in play.
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Because we weren't talking about keeping him, it was for a sign and trade. Most teams won't have the room to sign him to a max deal.
Steve
I think you are correct. I found this:
Restricted free agents who sign one-year qualifying contracts get veto power over trades. If a player is traded while on a qualifying offer contract that would mean the loss of their Bird Rights.
So, it sounds like that definitely takes a bunch of teams at the cap out of the equation if he is traded while on QO contract in terms of a sign and trade during the season. That team would have to have space available to match the qualifying offer contract.
However, does anybody have a link to explain the other scenario? If what I am reading correctly you guys think that if he finishes his Qualifying Offer that somehow the Suns retain his Larry Bird Rights? That doesn't sound right. If he becomes unrestricted why would he lose his Bird Rights to the Suns? I thought the only way he could lose them is to agree to a trade during the Qualifying Offer.
If that is the case, Bledsoe has no incentive to sign with the Suns after the season and help them out with a Sign and trade scenario.
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It's not that he loses them to the Suns. However you want to say it, he has his Bird rights which allows him to re-sign with the Suns even if it takes us over the cap. Or we have his Bird rights and can go over the cap, it amounts to the same thing. He won't be signing to help us out though, he'll be signing with us so that he can get the money he wants as part of the S&T. But if the team he wants to play for has the room, they'll just sign him outright.
Steve
Bledsoe and mr. Rich just piss me off
He played 73 % of games in the last 4 years. Its his 2nd injury so its likely he won't even play this amount in the coming years and he is not satisfied with 48 mil per year.
Stephen Curry played 5 years with over 80 % attendance at 44 million for 4 years.
Anyone who thinks Bledsoe deserves more than 48 million needs to have his head examined. He is a risky investment and his style of play is very prone to injury.
Signing him at max or close to and seeing him get hurt would be a GMs worst nightmare and guaranteed 48 million is not a small amount of money considering everything.
Also the immediate future holds a lot of signing of more consistent players which would be hard to keep in Phoenix if they make a bigger offer to Bledsoe. Dragic will probably sign for less than he is worth, but still ...
He played 73 % of games in the last 4 years. Its his 2nd injury so its likely he won't even play this amount in the coming years and he is not satisfied with 48 mil per year.
Stephen Curry played 5 years with over 80 % attendance at 44 million for 4 years.
Anyone who thinks Bledsoe deserves more than 48 million needs to have his head examined. He is a risky investment and his style of play is very prone to injury.
Signing him at max or close to and seeing him get hurt would be a GMs worst nightmare and guaranteed 48 million is not a small amount of money considering everything.
Also the immediate future holds a lot of signing of more consistent players which would be hard to keep in Phoenix if they make a bigger offer to Bledsoe. Dragic will probably sign for less than he is worth, but still ...
Chaz
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Has any player signed and played for the qualifying offer under the current CBA? I can't think of any. This all just seems like a really unique situation.
To quote from this article :
http://www.si.com/nba/2014/08/19/eric-bledsoe-phoenix-suns-free-agency
" that since 2003, 14 players drafted in the first round have signed the qualifying offer and only one (Spencer Hawes) has reached a long-term deal with his original team, according to SB Nation’s Tom Ziller."
http://www.si.com/nba/2014/08/19/eric-bledsoe-phoenix-suns-free-agency
" that since 2003, 14 players drafted in the first round have signed the qualifying offer and only one (Spencer Hawes) has reached a long-term deal with his original team, according to SB Nation’s Tom Ziller."
devilalum
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I'm pretty sire most of those were average players that teams didn't want to let go but were also not worth a big contract. Didn't Sideshow Rob fall into this category?
JCSunsfan
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The Suns look at Curry's deal and say, "Look, Curry is better than you and he signed for less." Bledoe's answer, "Curry was a schmuck."
Bledsoe looks at Kyrie's deal and says, "See, Kyrie got the super max, and I am better than him." Suns answer, "The Cavs were schmucks."
Stalemate.
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the problem with using Curry's deal is that you're basing Bledsoe's contract offer on another that a) is universally seen as a super low deal for Curry and b) was a deal made over 2 years ago.
JCSunsfan
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That's true. They are also probably looking at Lowry and Stephenson. I have a hunch that there are teams that are still talking with Bledsoe. As long as teams like Houston are trying to work out s&t's he is going work on getting a better deal.
The player's perception of himself and the reality of how he is perceived along with the incredible variation in contracts awarded similar players makes this complex.
Honestly, I think Bledsoe is better than Kyrie, but Kyrie is obviously more marketable and, at the time, on a team that wanted to make him the focal point.
elindholm
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Either Curry or Irving would get the max on the open market. The contracts they happened to sign with their current teams really aren't relevant. The market has determined that Bledsoe's value is lower than either of theirs is.
Errntknght
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In post 742 (in this thead) a link to this tweet was posted... we had a debate about the significance since Eric has to approve any trade...
.@judefox10 says you can "take it to the bank" in regards to his report on @FoxSports910 that the @suns are exploring an Eric Bledsoe trade.
.@judefox10 says you can "take it to the bank" in regards to his report on @FoxSports910 that the @suns are exploring an Eric Bledsoe trade.
elindholm
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I really believe that a trade is the best outcome at this point. Although we can debate whether the Dragic/Bledsoe pairing has a long-term future, there's no doubt that it would represent a weird allocation of talent and salary resources. It would be like a baseball team having two high-priced shortstops and asking one of them to play third base -- oh, wait, that happened, never mind.
The Suns' biggest need is for a traditional PF, and if he can play a bit of center, so much the better. Probably there is no such person out there available in a trade for Bledsoe. But if the Suns can get a couple of mid-quality assets back and retain their cap flexibility, that might be good enough for now.
The Suns' biggest need is for a traditional PF, and if he can play a bit of center, so much the better. Probably there is no such person out there available in a trade for Bledsoe. But if the Suns can get a couple of mid-quality assets back and retain their cap flexibility, that might be good enough for now.
JCSunsfan
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The suns biggest need this next year will be three point shooting and rebounding.
KloD
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This article speaks to the issues of trading Bledsoe. It's going to take some magic to get value for Bledsoe. I don't see it happening, nor do I see this situation working out well for the Suns. We're very likely to lose Bledsoe either this year (by a lousy trade) or next summer for nothing. The positive is we'll have cap space and may be able to sign some talent next summer at a position of need, but the joy of getting Bledsoe for Dudley last summer has turned into a real bummer of a story. What a disappointment this situation turned into. I think the front office has done the right thing and I'm really happy they didn't bend and give him a max out of desperation. Who knows, maybe a few years from now we'll look back and be glad we don't have him on the roster?
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/sto...d-trade?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/sto...d-trade?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
elindholm
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True, and that's a reminder that trades that initially appear to be lopsided often end up looking more balanced over time. But the trade was still the right decision for the Suns. Dudley had become redundant, and Bledsoe was a hot young talent. It was worth the gamble that he might turn out to be an injury-prone conceited ass.
chickenhead
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I also think the original trade was the right one, and that the Suns position in negotiations has been the right one. I'm still hoping there's a way to keep him, but given the depth at the position, using Bledsoe's cap space to improve the front court might be the wisest course of action, even if it happens next offseason.
