Suns explore deal for Pau Gasol

[PhxGametime]

Gasol is a downgrade defensively but with limited minutes (25), could improve rebounding and Suns post up game. I have a feeling he could be trouble with chemistry, demanding more shots, etc. - stat wise it works well but he's not the same player...

 

[Hoop Head]

Pau works at PF or C and sure he would take some minutes from Plumlee, Frye, Len, and Markieff but we would have a real big to play in the 4th quarter, which would help out the offense overall. Plumlee logs the almost all of his PT in the first 3 quarters now and we end up playing small to finish games because of his Shaqness at the FT line. It's Len's rookie year and who knows how healthy he will remain so taking time from him isn't much of concern, he can get all the rest he needs so his ankles are truly 100% and he can be sent down to the D-League for reps. Frye losing time wouldn't really be a bad thing considering we are stuck playing him when his shot's not falling now due to lack of personnel. Frye has played well as of late, probably the last month or so, but before that the majority of people here were calling for his head. Markieff losing time is the only one that I can see a silver lining too.

 

[JS22]

God no, terrible idea. Gasol is old and expiring this season. That's like a double no.

Plus he will make us even worse defensively in the paint.

Giving up Okafor plus pick or young player for him would just be a bad, bad idea. Okafor straight up plus Frye? Sure.

So you think it's an absolutely terrible idea but are willing to give up Frye, who is essential to the type of the offense the Sun run, in order to do it?

 

[SunsTzu]

For what it's worth, the trade works straight-up, according to RealGM.

Yes, the Suns are under the cap but even if they weren't they could take back up to Okafor's contract + 5mil which would be enough to cover Pau without adding any other pieces.

I don't think this trade is very likely without a 3rd team though. The Lakers turned down a Pau for Bynum deal which would have saved them even more than acquiring Okafor and I doubt the Suns will have any more interest in parting with significant assets than the Cavs had.

Pau for Okafor and the Indy Pick is the best I'd offer.

 

[sunsfan88]

So you think it's an absolutely terrible idea but are willing to give up Frye, who is essential to the type of the offense the Sun run, in order to do it?

If they trade for Gasol then it would change the type of offense a little bit. It won't be "run, run, run" and "iso ball" in half court all the time. Pau can actually score and create for others in the half court.

As for Frye, um you do realize that Kieff can replace him easily right? Kieff can probably do a better job defensively and rebounding as well.

 

[95pro]

The opposition has to pay attention to Frye when he's out there beyond the arc. This creates space, i don't think Kieff garners that much attention. He does make em from out there but he's not as much of a threat as Frye is. It seems frye takes and makes more three's and probably has a better percentage than Kieff.

Simply putting Kieff in for the role of Frye wouldn't be effective.

 

[Rab]

I love the chemistry going on with this team right now, and I'd hate to disrupt it by including Frye in the deal, who's just happy to be playing again, and has played really well, for a guy in Gasol who has pouted and complained frequently about touches and his role in the offense. So like I said earlier, if you can get Pau without trading away a player outside of Okafor, then fine. If the Lakers want more than that, I don't think the Suns need to roll those dice. Adding Gasol doesn't get them over that hump anyway.

 

[Town Drunk]

Pau Gasol | LAK
(February 3, 2014 12:15 AM EST)
The Lakers are "engaging in trade discussions" with the Suns for Pau Gasol, according to the L.A. Times.
Any deal would send Emeka Okafor's expiring contract and at least one draft pick to L.A., and this confirms an earlier report by ESPN.com which detailed the Suns' interest in Gasol. The Suns have a stacked deck with four first-round picks in 2014 and GM Ryan McDonough has been open about his willingness to trade one or more for a star player. A source "familiar with [Gasol's] thinking" told the Times that Gasol would be comfortable in Phoenix, where he could establish his value on a playoff contender before hitting free agency in July. The Lakers would gain by acquiring draft picks and salary cap relief, particularly since Okafor's remaining salary is largely covered by insurance. This is still firmly in a 'speculative' phase, but at face value it makes sense for both teams.
SOURCE: L.A. TIMES

 

[95pro]

all this talk about chemistry? we should mess with the team now rather than waiting to add someone next season. There's all this talk about not wanting to disrupt current chemistry BUT at the same time the argument comes up that we aren't a contender anyway. Then what is the point of keep the current roster the same?

The only reason to keep the team together is so that there won't be another viable option to that will take minutes away from the very young and very raw rookies of Len and Goodwin. IMO they will need time to develop anyway as they are so young. To expect stardom from them next season isn't reasonable at this point.

 

[Gaddabout]

I'm not thrilled about this at all, but Gasol is one of the best defensive rebounders in the game. That's where he gets most of his rebounds, about 8 per game. No way I give up Frye, though. He's too important to what the Suns do. I have a real hard time to give up a first-round pick. You're bailing the Lakers out of cap hell. You can't help your rival in the draft, right?

 

[elindholm]

I have a real hard time to give up a first-round pick. You're bailing the Lakers out of cap hell. You can't help your rival in the draft, right?

The Lakers will bail themselves out by winning the draft lottery next summer and getting the draft's best player, one way or another. I'm not worried about giving them a late first-round pick. But yes, if the point of getting Gasol would be to go all-in on trying to make noise in the playoffs right now -- which I think is stupid, but whatever -- then the Suns need to keep Frye.

Okafor, Pacers pick, future second. Oh, and Kratsov, save a few dollars.

 

[jlove]

From the media reports out of Phoenix, the Suns are only willing to give up Okafor straight up for Gasol. No draft picks, or other players involved. Period. All outside (of Arizona) reports can be taken with a grain of salt. Ala the LA Times report of Gasol for Okafor and at least one draft pick. Do I like this overall, ehhhhh. I would rather try my hand at getting Turner and Young (or to a lesser extent Hawes and Turner) for Okafor and the twins and maybe Indy or Suns pick.

 

[devilalum]

Here's another idea. from ESPN

The Lakers owe the Suns a future first round pick and they will try to get that back. A reasonable deal would be to allow the Suns to swap picks without any protection. This would assure the Lakers have a pick in the year they might give up theirs to Phoenix. The potential deal also saves the Lakers a lot of money as Okafor's cap number is much lower than Gasol's and insurance is currently picking up 80 percent of the remaining salary.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Here's another idea. from ESPN

In other words, instead of having both picks, we get the best of the two and no protection at all (which has been 1-5 protection) on the Laker's pick. Its an interesting proposal, but I still don't think I would do it.

 

[TJ]

I'm not thrilled about this at all, but Gasol is one of the best defensive rebounders in the game. That's where he gets most of his rebounds, about 8 per game. No way I give up Frye, though. He's too important to what the Suns do. I have a real hard time to give up a first-round pick. You're bailing the Lakers out of cap hell. You can't help your rival in the draft, right?

Agree 100%. Pau has to sit out the next three games due to injury. He's also missed bits and pieces earlier in the year. I can't justify any trade that involves anything more than Okafor. Okafor and a first-round pick is ridiculous, and Okafor and Frye would be downright absurd.

 

[JCSunsfan]

As I am watching the headlines and tweets roll, I am convinced that there is a bidding war going on right now--and the Suns are the ones that leaked the story about Gasol.

The bidding war is not for Gasol, its for Okafor's expiring. The Suns are trying to get other teams to step up their offers. Cleveland used the Lakers and Gasol the same way earlier in the season.

 

[KloD]

Absolutely NO!
If it's a straight swap, fine. But, no way should the Suns give up any picks/players for the rental of a 33 year old on an expiring contract. He will not raise them to championship contention so what would be the point?

I would much rather they stand pat or explore other trades for younger talent.

The Suns should neither help the Lakers save financially nor help them tank. Gasol might help the Suns win a few extra games, but he doesn't put them in championship contention so no, no, no, no, no.

It makes me almost physically ill to imagine the Suns giving up a pick or more for this less than 1/2 season rental, but the idea of giving up cap room by signing Gasol to more years this summer is the kind of move I am hoping the Suns are done making. Please McD, please do not do this.

It seems as if some of you need a wake up slap.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not enthused by Gasol. There must be other players available using Okafor. If the Suns persist in doing this trade then offer Okafor, the Minny pick and a second round pick. It is my new best offer.

 

[KloD]

I'm not enthused by Gasol. There must be other players available using Okafor. If the Suns persist in doing this trade then offer Okafor, the Minny pick and a second round pick. It is my new best offer.

I do not understand what makes you believe getting Gasol for less than a half a season is worth a first and second round pick?

I guess I see this idea in the same light as giving Seattle 2 first round picks to take Thomas or signing Childress to that deal. It's just plain stupid in my opinion. No offense, It just seems like throwing away assets in some desperate attempt to accomplish a short term solution, that instead hurts our long term goals. It's the kind of move that smells of regret.

 

[HooverDam]

Fans need to get over the notion that b/c the Suns aren't title contenders, they shouldn't do deals that will put them in the playoffs or potentially win a round. The current ownership covets being in the playoffs, winning a round makes the Suns a LOT of extra money and that's not something a mid market club like the Suns is going to want to pass up.

Okafor+Indy's pick would be a fine deal for Pau. The chances some 28th pick pans out is very low. Are we really worried about missing out on the Alando Tuckers of the world?

With Pau, a healthy Bledsoe and the right match up, the Suns could win a round or maybe two. The other thing no one is talking about in this thread, doesn't winning likely help you keep Bledsoe? If Bled sees the Suns winning and heading in the right direction (much sooner than expected) as a franchise, doesn't that increase your chance of keeping him?

Pau for Okafor+Indy's pick is basically getting him for free, dont pass that up.

 

[Mainstreet]

As I am watching the headlines and tweets roll, I am convinced that there is a bidding war going on right now--and the Suns are the ones that leaked the story about Gasol.

The bidding war is not for Gasol, its for Okafor's expiring. The Suns are trying to get other teams to step up their offers. Cleveland used the Lakers and Gasol the same way earlier in the season.

If this is what is happening, it would make me feel better.

 

[JCSunsfan]

BTW. This deal would save the Lakers a boatload of cash. There is a $4.8 million difference between salaries, and since the Lakers are over the LT that's a $9.6 million savings. Then Okafor's contract is insured at 80%. So they save roughly 80% of the remaining $7.88 million of that ($6.3 million). The total cash savings for the Lakers would be right at $16 million.

They would also get a better draft pick in a season when they are clearly not going anywhere.

AND they want an extra pick. No way.

 

[jlove]

BTW. This deal would save the Lakers a boatload of cash. There is a $4.8 million difference between salaries, and since the Lakers are over the LT that's a $9.6 million savings. Then Okafor's contract is insured at 80%. So they save roughly 80% of the remaining $7.88 million of that ($6.3 million). The total cash savings for the Lakers would be right at $16 million.

They would also get a better draft pick in a season when they are clearly not going anywhere.

AND they want an extra pick. No way.

With a straight up deal of Okafor for Gasol, the Lakers would still be over the lux tax threshold by a little over $3 Mil. They would still be trying to find another trade that drops them under the tax threshold because they are looking at therepeat offender lux tax threshold penalty (which this year looks like this)

Tax levels from 2013–14
Amount over tax threshold -------Standard tax per excess dollar---------Repeat offender tax per excess dollar
$5 million or less---------------------$1.50--------------------------$2.50
$5 million to $10 million-------------$1.75--------------------------$2.75
$10 million to $15 million------------$2.50-------------------------$3.50
$15 million to $20 million------------$3.25--------------------------$4.25
Over $20 million----------------------$3.25 + $0.50 per $5 million------------$4.25 + $0.50 per $5 million



•A trade for Okafor would save the Lakers $6-7 million in real salary dollars plus the luxury tax multiplier
•Another small trade to dump salary (about $3 million) would drop the Lakers below the lux tax threshold entirely, freeing them from the spectre of the 'repeater tax' in future seasons and saving even more money this season
•Being worst in the West still only gets you the 4th or 5th pick in the draft. The Lakers would be better served going worse than 13-22 the rest of the way (which is their current projection)

 

[HooverDam]

BTW. This deal would save the Lakers a boatload of cash. There is a $4.8 million difference between salaries, and since the Lakers are over the LT that's a $9.6 million savings. Then Okafor's contract is insured at 80%. So they save roughly 80% of the remaining $7.88 million of that ($6.3 million). The total cash savings for the Lakers would be right at $16 million.

They would also get a better draft pick in a season when they are clearly not going anywhere.

AND they want an extra pick. No way.

You don't avoid doing a trade that you think benefits you both long and short term because you're perpetually afraid of the big bad Lakers and that the deal might slightly help them. Worry about your own organization.

 

[JCSunsfan]

You don't avoid doing a trade that you think benefits you both long and short term because you're perpetually afraid of the big bad Lakers and that the deal might slightly help them. Worry about your own organization.

No. But a huge part of negotiating is understanding the other party's situation. It is in their best interest to do this trade straight up. It is more important for them to do this than it is for the Suns to do this.

The benefit of this trade for the Suns is only short term and that is somewhat negligible. There is no point in giving the Laker's picks just because we are nice guys. Its not like we're Canadian.