Suns get Aaron Brooks

[mjb21aztd]

well I haven't seen Brooks play but his contract is over at the end of this year right? Will the suns resign him if he plays decent though? Man would have been nicer to get Milsap though he would have been big for us oh well...

 

[AfroSuns]

I would like someone to prove that Nash has been our worst defender this season. Nobody will, because nobody can. He's actually played decent defense this year.

No doubt Nash is better this season, partly due to effort and mostly due to help from his teammates.
Maybe you will grasp if phrased as "no one is as bad defensively as Nash among players getting major minute", if you think anyone is worse, care to name one?

Mainstreet assumption does make sense but we will have to wait and see how much the Suns will pay for that adjustment on the other end of the court.

 

[sunsfan88]

Dragic sure looks excited....

http://www.nba.com/rockets/video/2011/02/26/ZOOM0003MOV-1572378/index.html#

 

[AfroSuns]

Dragic sure looks excited....

http://www.nba.com/rockets/video/2011/02/26/ZOOM0003MOV-1572378/index.html#

I like Dragic and i hope he does well, but i wont be surprised if he eventually goes back to Europe to play.

 

[Sunburn]

I would like someone to prove that Nash has been our worst defender this season. Nobody will, because nobody can. He's actually played decent defense this year.

Agreed. According to 82games.com, Nash this season is giving up to his opponent pg a PER of 11.7 and 18.1 points per 48 minutes. This is better than Rondo, who is giving up a PER of 14.3 and 19.3 points per 48.

 

[sunsfan88]

Agreed. According to 82games.com, Nash this season is giving up to his opponent pg a PER of 11.7 and 18.1 points per 48 minutes. This is better than Rondo, who is giving up a PER of 14.3 and 19.3 points per 48.

Yea but you have to consider that Nash often guards the opponent's worst offensive player.

 

[Sunburn]

Yea but you have to consider that Nash often guards the opponent's worst offensive player.

I'm not entirely certain of how true your statement is but, regardless, it shows that Nash's image of being a horrible defender is, at the very least, an exaggeration, at least for this year. Those players aren't hanging career nights on him.

 

[BC867]

I like Dragic and i hope he does well, but i wont be surprised if he eventually goes back to Europe to play.

He was probably considering that seriously until the trade.

Did he reach his limit as an NBA Point Guard? Or did he reach his level of frustration having to fill the shoes of the most unique Point Guard (passing, pure shooter, 3-pointers and free throws) in the league?

Time will tell if his play on offense will match his defense.

 

[JCSunsfan]

He was probably considering that seriously until the trade.

Did he reach his limit as an NBA Point Guard? Or did he reach his level of frustration having to fill the shoes of the most unique Point Guard (passing, pure shooter, 3-pointers and free throws) in the league?

Time will tell if his play on offense will match his defense.

It's great to have a defensive specialist. There is a place for that type of player in the league. But a pg HAS to be able to run an offense. You can be an effective pg without playing really good D. But you cannot be if you cannot be productive offensively somehow. There is a reason defensive specialists are usually wing players.

I really think the issue with Goran is that teams figured out how to play him. If he had room to operate in the front court, he could be effective. But someone figured out that if they crowded him in the front court, he did not have the speed or ball-handling ability to create.

That is a fatal flaw. Players like Nash seem to have the ability to protect the ball while looking beyond the immediate defender. Watch Goran. He is preoccupied with the man guarding him, and once that happens, he is useless.

 

[Chaplin]

Just a little something that I thought was interesting...

For PGs, Houston has Kyle Lowry and Goran Dragic -- Phoenix has Steve Nash and Aaron Brooks. Talk about a huge difference.

 

[Irish]

It's great to have a defensive specialist. There is a place for that type of player in the league. But a pg HAS to be able to run an offense. You can be an effective pg without playing really good D. But you cannot be if you cannot be productive offensively somehow. There is a reason defensive specialists are usually wing players.

I really think the issue with Goran is that teams figured out how to play him. If he had room to operate in the front court, he could be effective. But someone figured out that if they crowded him in the front court, he did not have the speed or ball-handling ability to create.

That is a fatal flaw. Players like Nash seem to have the ability to protect the ball while looking beyond the immediate defender. Watch Goran. He is preoccupied with the man guarding him, and once that happens, he is useless.

I've been convinced of this all season. Goran might be a pretty good player as a combo along side a super quick #2 such as Barbosa. I don't think we realized how much Leandro took the quickest defender last season.

BTW, I think the Suns will keep a third PG going forward. Ideally he will be a Earl Watson type who can defend and not throw the ball away.

 

[sunsfan88]

I just realized...

Only 5 guys remain from the 09-10 WCF team.

 

[leclerc]

Those small PGs have driven the Suns crazy. Let the Suns give them a dose.

Is Brooks small enough or should we look for an even smaller player next summer? Some one well below 6 feet? What is his nickname by the way? Waterbug?

Good thing it's his contract year. Dudes always show effort playing for a contract.

 

[jagu]

I kind of miss the Dragon but his lack of confidence was appalling this year. Good luck to him in Houston!

 

[Covert Rain]

I would be interested in seeing just how hard you pursue trying to prove that Nash sucks. Point guards haven't been having great games against us--our problem this year has been obscure bench players have career games.

What are you implying? Let me repeat this for you. If I have a chance I will do a deep dive. I am getting killed at work right now. Not much free time. You should know by now that when I post stats that is exactly what I do. I just don't post some obscure +/- stats.

At a quick glance, Nash has improved on what opposing PG's are producing. There is zero doubt but to say it's because Nash has all of the sudden become a good defender is stretching it. Nobody becomes good at something at the end of the career unless their is some performance enhancing substance added to the mix.

This is a lame excuse--if Nash's deficiencies are "hidden", then why complain about his defense in the first place? Nash has never been a 1st team defender, but if our paint protectors are "hiding" his problems, then why is that an issue? Seems like that's what we SHOULD be doing.

Everyone from D'Anotni, Porter and even Gentry has said during interviews that they have played zone to protect Steve over the years. What do you think that is code speak for? I have posted the stats many times proving that our bigs get more fouls then most teams in the NBA since Steve got here. I am sure I could dig those up again.

How is something stated by every coach that has coached him has said a lame excuse? How is putting Grant Hill on opposing guards more often then not a lame excuse? How is the fact that we finally have bigs to play help defense an excuse?

It's a fact. Nobody said we "shouldn't be doing it". I believe the topic was if Nash was all of the sudden playing good defense. Which I dispute based on watching every single game. Is he playing better? OK, I will concede he appears to be. Nash didn't all of the sudden become a good defender at his age and at this stage of his career. Name me one time someone who was bad at something their entire career became good? Let's be realistic.

As I stated I think he is playing better but that doesn't make him good.

The fact is, the Suns have improved quite a bit defensively while Nash is still playing heavy minutes, something that many people here claimed is impossible while Nash is still on the team regardless of who the big men are.

Some people were also saying that Steve would have to be surrounded by multiple good defenders for that to ever happen. How many of us have been harping on the Suns to get more defenders on this team and stop adding offensive minded only players? Some teams can become much better by adding one defensive player. That was never going to be the Suns with Nash at the helm. We have had that one good guy (i.e. Raja) and our defense overall still sucked.

 

[slinslin]

if that is all Brooks gives us talk about a wasted first round pick again...

 

[Mainstreet]

Is Brooks small enough or should we look for an even smaller player next summer? Some one well below 6 feet? What is his nickname by the way? Waterbug?

No. The Suns have a larger waterbug in Dowdell already.

 

[Irish]

I'm not sure how good Brooks CAN be. I'd can see how he can be a good backup if he continues to play like he did last year. Last year he made 5.3 assists per game in 35.6 minutes per game fir a 2.18 assist per turnover ratio. He shot 39.8% for 3 (209 of 525) and 82.2% free throw percentage. 19.8 ppg. He has been injured this year, but still shows some quickness.

It's comething of a gamble, but the Suns training staff should be a huge plus for him.

 

[Chaplin]

What are you implying? Let me repeat this for you. If I have a chance I will do a deep dive. I am getting killed at work right now. Not much free time. You should know by now that when I post stats that is exactly what I do. I just don't post some obscure +/- stats.

I certainly know that you are unlike others and will produce better evidence than obscure +/- and per48 hogwash.

At a quick glance, Nash has improved on what opposing PG's are producing. There is zero doubt but to say it's because Nash has all of the sudden become a good defender is stretching it. Nobody becomes good at something at the end of the career unless their is some performance enhancing substance added to the mix.

I said he's played decent defense this year. Doesn't mean he's a great defender. You continually have complained about his defense when the reality is that his defense (or lack thereof) hasn't really hurt us this season.

Everyone from D'Anotni, Porter and even Gentry has said during interviews that they have played zone to protect Steve over the years. What do you think that is code speak for? I have posted the stats many times proving that our bigs get more fouls then most teams in the NBA since Steve got here. I am sure I could dig those up again.

And? Are you trying to prove that he's not a good defender or that he hasn't been playing decent defense this season? I agree he's not a good defender over the course of his career. But I still say he's playing decent, all right, ok (whatever you want to call it) defense THIS SEASON. And I'm interested to see you refute that, that's all.

How is something stated by every coach that has coached him has said a lame excuse? How is putting Grant Hill on opposing guards more often then not a lame excuse? How is the fact that we finally have bigs to play help defense an excuse?

And again, you are using his entire career to support your argument. What about this season, and this season only? If you don't want to give him any credit, that's fine. Just say that--instead of saying, "well, D'antoni and Gentry said he is a bad defender a few years ago, so who are we to argue?"

It's a fact. Nobody said we "shouldn't be doing it". I believe the topic was if Nash was all of the sudden playing good defense. Which I dispute based on watching every single game. Is he playing better? OK, I will concede he appears to be. Nash didn't all of the sudden become a good defender at his age and at this stage of his career. Name me one time someone who was bad at something their entire career became good? Let's be realistic.

LOL, seriously? NOW you're conceding that Nash has played better. Why is that not "decent"? And for your question: Should I mention Frye, or will that upset you?

As I stated I think he is playing better but that doesn't make him good.

And as I stated, He's playing decent defense this season, but that doesn't make him a good defender all of a sudden. He's having a good year, one of the best of his career. I'll take it considering what he gives us on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[Covert Rain]

And? Are you trying to prove that he's not a good defender or that he hasn't been playing decent defense this season? I agree he's not a good defender over the course of his career. But I still say he's playing decent, all right, ok (whatever you want to call it) defense THIS SEASON. And I'm interested to see you refute that, that's all.

I guess that depends on your definition of decent. I watched him pretty much get blown by all night in the Pacers game. I have watched him get blown by more then what I would expect from a "decent" defending PG.

To me he has gone from god awful to below average.

And again, you are using his entire career to support your argument. What about this season, and this season only? If you don't want to give him any credit, that's fine. Just say that--instead of saying, "well, D'antoni and Gentry said he is a bad defender a few years ago, so who are we to argue?"

I believe I did give him credit for looking better. Oh...and Gentry said it earlier this year that they played zone to protect Steve. That was before the Gortat trade. So, I don't know what you mean by a few years ago. It's been every season and every coach who has used the same tactic.

LOL, seriously? NOW you're conceding that Nash has played better. Why is that not "decent"? And for your question: Should I mention Frye, or will that upset you?

If a player gets blown by 12 times a game and now is getting blown by 10 times a game...that is better. It doesn't mean it's good. Again, I don't think Steve is really doing all that better at preventing dribble penetration as there are times when he appears he couldn't guard a brick wall. I think the difference is, with the old Suns once you got by Steve it was a clear path to the basket. With having 2 Centers in almost all the time, the team is playing better rotation and team defense making it difficult for guards to score in the lane.

Why would I get upset about Frye? I have blasted him when he has played bad and praised him when he has played well. I am the same with every player on this team.

Why would that upset me?

And as I stated, He's playing decent defense this season, but that doesn't make him a good defender all of a sudden. He's having a good year, one of the best of his career. I'll take it considering what he gives us on the offensive side of the ball.

I still think he is a below average defender. Again, that's up from his usual worst in the league. I agree though...I too will take any increase in his defensive play no matter how marginal.

 

[Errntknght]

DarenG,

I guess that depends on your definition of decent. I watched him pretty much get blown by all night in the Pacers game.

Not in the Pacers game I watched. Nash stayed in front of Collison consistently... so much so that their coach put AJ Price in his place. Now Price made a three by rubbing Nash off with repeated picks and less than stellar D by Gortat but Nash did much better bothering his long shots than Brooks did. Aaron needs considerable work with the bigs in defending high picks when the guy is angling to shoot threes... he was going under and running into his teammate. It takes considerable coordination to play that situation correctly... I'm sure they'll work it out.

Watch Warrick if you want to see somebody routinely screw up on defense. Now and then he does a decent job of helping but more often than not he helps at the wrong time or wrong place or just gets in the way. He tends to lose track of his man a lot... IMO, the best way to use him is give him a tough assignment with strict orders to stay right with his man and not think about helping. He's not going to impress but at least he'll be doing something useful most of the time.

 

[jagu]

Warrick sometimes looks completely lost out there, but he also has extremely impressive offensive games. He isn't a major go-to-option like at times earlier in the year. It would be nice to see Brooks slice to the paint and draw Warrick's man, then feed it to Hakim for a monster dunk!

 

[Covert Rain]

DarenG,

Not in the Pacers game I watched. Nash stayed in front of Collison consistently... so much so that their coach put AJ Price in his place.

Then we were watching a different game. Nash did better against Collison but Price broke Nash's ankles repeatedly on cross overs all night long.

 

[Sunburn]

AB looked excellent to me tonight. Substantial upgrade from what Dragic was producing.

 

[jagu]

Warrick sometimes looks completely lost out there, but he also has extremely impressive offensive games. He isn't a major go-to-option like at times earlier in the year. It would be nice to see Brooks slice to the paint and draw Warrick's man, then feed it to Hakim for a monster dunk!

Wow this was pretty prophetic lol..