Suns Heat Griz Three-team trade

[lou_skywalker]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-sunsheat021309&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

"The proposed multiplayer trade is fluid, but the framework would include the Suns receiving a package that includes Miami forward Shawn Marion and Grizzlies forward Rudy Gay. Miami would send rookie Michael Beasley to the Grizzlies. More players would be needed to balance out salary-cap rules."

 

[lou_skywalker]

Sounds great, but unfortunately not much improvement for our defense

 

[abomb]

I think I just broke the trade machine adding players, trying to get salaries to match.

 

[abomb]

Got it;

PHX
Gay
Marion

MIA
Stoudemire

MEM
Dudley
Beasley
Picks?

 

[TheKid_1]

Got it;

PHX
Gay
Marion

MIA
Stoudemire

MEM
Dudley
Beasley
Picks?

This would be interesting...
PG: Nash
SG: J-Rich
SF: Gay
PF: Marion
C: Shaq

I might go for that actually.

 

[Folster]

Got it;

PHX
Gay
Marion

MIA
Stoudemire

MEM
Dudley
Beasley
Picks?

That's horrible and doesn't work under the cap. Now we have 4 small forwards.

Nash, Barbs
Richardson
Gay, Hill, Barnes
Marion, Amundson, Dudley
Shaq, Lopez

We'd have to get Chalmers, Memphis' unprotected first rounder and pray for Blake Griffin for me to do that.

 

[AceP]

Why do we get 2 SFs back by trading a PF? Who to play our starting PF then? Marion? Amundson? How do we make Gay and Marion co-exist? Meawhile, get rid of both Hill and Barnes? ...

This doesn't make any sense basketball wise.

 

[abomb]

That's horrible and doesn't work under the cap. Now we have 4 small forwards.

Nash, Barbs
Richardson
Gay, Hill, Barnes
Marion, Amundson, Dudley
Shaq, Lopez

We'd have to get Chalmers, Memphis' unprotected first rounder and pray for Blake Griffin for me to do that.

It works. See for yourself.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b3xag4

 

[TheKid_1]

This trade actually does work...
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Rudy Gay and Marion?

To go with Jason Richardson, Hill, and Barbosa?

Pass.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

They discussed this on the radio. The Suns would be getting Beasley not Marion.

 

[PHX04]

Rudy Gay and Marion?

To go with Jason Richardson, Hill, and Barbosa?

Pass.

This

Hill came here to be a starter..and him coming off the bench is not good..as we seen what porter did in the begining of the year

 

[lou_skywalker]

maybe thats why they switched it around to make the salaries work
and thats why Kerr talked to Dudley earlier today

 

[Covert Rain]

Horrible trade. You would be getting back 2 SF in the deal. They are basically the same player. They both play both SF and PF. Even if the Suns get Beasley it's still not a great trade.

Defense
Gay is a better defender at the SF then playing PF. When Gay plays PF he allows allows 19.4 PPG which is only slightly better then Amare's 20.4.

Marion is in the same boat. He plays better defense at the SF (which his numbers are not good this year). When Marion plays PF he allows 21.8 PPG which is worse then Amare.

Beasley is the worst defender of the 3. He allows 26.2 PPG which is horrible.

Rebounding
Rudy sucks at rebounding.

Marion is only slightly better then Amare this year.

Beasley sucks at rebounding too.


Turnovers
Gay and Amare are both 2 of the worst forwards in the NBA with total turnovers and turnovers per game. No improvement there...probably a tad worse.

Beasley does take care of the basketball which is the only positive I see here.

Overall
We have to get better at rebounding, defense and turnovers. If the Suns do this deal, they don't get better at defense or rebounding. From a turnover perspective it's probably a wash because we get better at turnovers at the PF position, only to shift them over to the SF position in Gay.

Horrible deal.

 

[TBaslim]

They discussed this on the radio. The Suns would be getting Beasley not Marion.

Suns getting Beasley AND Gay? How's that work under the cap - Marion to Memphis and Amare to Miami?

 

[Folster]

It works. See for yourself.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b3xag4

Wow it does! But there is no way Sarver back an additional 4.2 million in salary, 8.4 after the LT. That's why I think Marion coming back here is impossible. Marion contract alone is 2.8 million more than Amar'e. Plus reacquiring Marion looks really bad for both Kerr and Sarver.

Suns send out Amare and Dudley, a combined 16.2 mil.
Suns receive Marion and Gay, a combined 20.4 mil.

Not gonna happen.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Wow it does! But there is no way Sarver back an additional 4.2 million in salary, 8.4 after the LT. That's why I think Marion coming back here is impossible. Marion contract alone is 2.8 million more than Amar'e. Plus reacquiring Marion looks really bad for both Kerr and Sarver.

Suns send out Amare and Dudley, a combined 16.2 mil.
Suns receive Marion and Gay, a combined 20.4 mil.

Not gonna happen.

The key is Marion's deal drops off after the season.

 

[Covert Rain]

The key is Marion's deal drops off after the season.

On the air, they said the deal is actually for Beasley not Marion. So, there is NOTHING about this trade that I like.

 

[elindholm]

That's horrible and doesn't work under the cap. Now we have 4 small forwards.

Marion has been playing more PF than SF the last few years, even in Miami, so he could do it again. Besides, it's only for a few months. And Barnes is horrible, so anything that reduces his minutes is a win as far as I'm concerned.

This trade certainly would not make the Suns better now, and it wouldn't bring in much promise either -- Gay is a decent consolation prize, but that's about it. Also, it brings the Suns' salary way up for this season. Either the details are wrong or this is completely bogus.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Horrible trade. You would be getting back 2 SF in the deal. They are basically the same player. They both play both SF and PF. Even if the Suns get Beasley it's still not a great trade.

Defense
Gay is a better defender at the SF then playing PF. When Gay plays PF he allows allows 19.4 PPG which is only slightly better then Amare's 20.4.

Marion is in the same boat. He plays better defense at the SF (which his numbers are not good this year). When Marion plays PF he allows 21.8 PPG which is worse then Amare.

Beasley is the worst defender of the 3. He allows 26.2 PPG which is horrible.

Rebounding
Rudy sucks at rebounding.

Marion is only slightly better then Amare this year.

Beasley sucks at rebounding too.


Turnovers
Gay and Amare are both 2 of the worst forwards in the NBA with total turnovers and turnovers per game. No improvement there...probably a tad worse.

Beasley does take care of the basketball which is the only positive I see here.

Overall
We have to get better at rebounding, defense and turnovers. If the Suns do this deal, they don't get better at defense or rebounding. From a turnover perspective it's probably a wash because we get better at turnovers at the PF position, only to shift them over to the SF position in Gay.

Horrible deal.

Dude you seem to be the only one that doesn't understand that the team is not making a push for the playoffs or the ring this season or next. They could care less if the team is 10 SF's as long as 1 of them is a prospect and the other nine's contract drops off after the season.

You can keep breaking it down Hubie Brown style but whatever the team gets back theoritically in this trade is going to be for cap space and prospects.

I don't think anything is going to happen except a change of coach personally. But if we can get Beasley AND Gay.....well then you would have to consider that IMO.

 

[TheKid_1]

All moot points now because Marion has just been traded to Toronto for JO.

 

[boisesuns]

raptors just got marion for oneal

 

[Covert Rain]

Dude you seem to be the only one that doesn't understand that the team is not making a push for the playoffs or the ring this season or next. They could care less if the team is 10 SF's as long as 1 of them is a prospect and the other nine's contract drops off after the season.

You can keep breaking it down Hubie Brown style but whatever the team gets back theoritically in this trade is going to be for cap space and prospects.

I don't think anything is going to happen except a change of coach personally. But if we can get Beasley AND Gay.....well then you would have to consider that IMO.

Dude you seem to be the only one that doesn't understand that regardless if your making a push to the playoffs, you have to set up a good foundation to build your team on.

What prospects are you referring to? Building around Gay and Beasley is a solid foundation??? You have got to be kidding.

Now factor in that any picks you get out of the deal are iffy at best.

I have ZERO problem with this team rebuilding. However, if your going to trade away Amare you MUST get a younger player that improves your team at the very least on the defensive end.

This is moot anyway. Marion just wen to the Raptors along with Banks.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

On the air, they said the deal is actually for Beasley not Marion. So, there is NOTHING about this trade that I like.

I don't understand why. Gay and Beasley are LEGIT prospects at the 3 and 4 (no matter what you think their defeciencies are rebounding and defensive wise) and then there will be cap space once Shaq/Nash drops off.

That gives you two years to evauate them and see if they are pieces you want to build around.

Suns fans I think we have to come to grips that this is going to be a post -Steph trade season or two to get back in that upper echelon.

Personally I hope Sarver either sells the team or sells his soul so we can get DWade here.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don't understand why. Gay and Beasley are LEGIT prospects at the 3 and 4 (no matter what you think their defeciencies are rebounding and defensive wise) and then there will be cap space once Shaq/Nash drops off.

I just don't get it. What is coming in is worse then what is going out. It's not what I think. The proof is in the play. Plus, you really think anybody is going to get more out of Beasley then Pat Riley???? Keep in mind that Pat Riley was desperate to trade out of the #2 pick to avoid taking Beasley and had no takers. Now is willing to send him packing. That sounds like a solid prospect?

Fact: Beasley is a worse defender then Amare.
Fact: Gay has a bigger turnover problem then Amare.
Fact: Neither is a better rebounder then Amare.

You might as well just keep Amare because he is better then either of those guys.