Suns interested in Ray Allen

[Chaplin]

No, not when you're in the Suns position. They shouldnt be giving out multi-year contracts to anyone until they find some players to build around.

So you don't think Mayo is a player to build around?

A lot of people here have funny definitions of what to build around--usually only top 3 draft picks and disinterested shooting guard/small forward tweeners.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

this is exactly the awful kind of thinking that has doomed the Pistons/Raptors to NBA hell. Sure... you have to spend your money sometime, but not at every opportunity that comes your way.

It's our first year with cap space. sitting on it for one year isn't "forever" JC.

Exactly...it's a hood rich philosophy to let money burn a hole in your pocket. (Which couldn't certainly apply to much of the rank and file of the league)

Teams don't get better by overpaying mediocre talent.

 

[Chaplin]

Not to say I like Brooks, but has anyone thought about how Aaron Brooks has yet to be with the team during training camp or preseason workouts? Might not matter, but does anybody care about that? I know it's been something brought up about former players (like Shaq and J-Rich).

 

[Cheesebeef]

So you don't think Mayo is a player to build around?

at 8 million per year? I don't think so. That's a big chunk of the cap.

A lot of people here have funny definitions of what to build around--usually only top 3 draft picks and disinterested shooting guard/small forward tweeners.

um... usually the only players to build around are top 3 draft picks... or FA who were top three draft picks and are now superstars. building around role players and slightly above average players doesn't seem like a good way to build a team to me. that's what I fear Mayo is. a possibly slightly above average player.

 

[Chaplin]

um... usually the only players to build around are top 3 draft picks... or FA who were top three draft picks and are now superstars. building around role players and slightly above average players doesn't seem like a good way to build a team to me. that's what I fear Mayo is. a possibly slightly above average player.

That was slightly tongue-in-cheek. Sorry I didn't have a smiley on it.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

at 8 million per year? I don't think so. That's a big chunk of the cap.



um... usually the only players to build around are top 3 draft picks... or FA who were top three draft picks and are now superstars. building around role players and slightly above average players doesn't seem like a good way to build a team to me. that's what I fear Mayo is. a possibly slightly above average player.

Exactly...and with the harder cap, and our current spendthrift owner, we're not in a position to make a mistake, because any mistake or overspend is crippling.

Paying middling talent a premium in free agency will only keep us in purgatory and prevent future flexibility. It's the one way to guarantee you'll continue to be irrelevant.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That was slightly tongue-in-cheek. Sorry I didn't have a smiley on it.

ah. gotcha.

 

[Phrazbit]

So you don't think Mayo is a player to build around?

A lot of people here have funny definitions of what to build around--usually only top 3 draft picks and disinterested shooting guard/small forward tweeners.

No, I dont. If OJ Mayo is one of your top couple players then you are not going anywhere.

From what I can see the "funny" definition of what to build around on this board seems to be building an entire team of extremely mediocre players on long term large contracts.

OJ Mayo for 8 mil? Brook Lopez for near the max? Gerald Wallace, Jamal Crawford? Its like the goal is to have a 30 win team pushing the luxury tax.

Edit: Just saw you clarify that post as sarcasm. My bad. But I still am baffled by the lunacy on this board. That a comment like "OJ Mayo isnt a player to build around?" was not instantly registered as sarcasm is a sign of the hype that some of these stiffs are receiving here.

 

[Chaplin]

No, I dont. If OJ Mayo is one of your top couple players then you are not going anywhere.

From what I can see the "funny" definition of what to build around on this board seems to be building an entire team of extremely mediocre players on long term large contracts.

OJ Mayo for 8 mil? Brook Lopez for near the max? Gerald Wallace, Jamal Crawford? Its like the goal is to have a 30 win team pushing the luxury tax.

Edit: Just saw you clarify that post as sarcasm. My bad. But I still am baffled by the lunacy on this board. That a comment like "OJ Mayo isnt a player to build around?" was not instantly registered as sarcasm is a sign of the hype that some of these stiffs are receiving here.

In all seriousness, I like Mayo and would have no problem with him at 7 per. At this point, he would be our #1 player if Nash leaves, a role he's never had and I'd be curious to see how he works in that position. I don't think he should be "built around", but treated as a complimentary piece of a larger whole.

Agree about Brook Lopez. Wouldn't mind having him, but he's probably going to be twice as expensive as he's worth. Jamal Crawford shouldn't even be discussed. Gerald Wallace? Another guy I wouldn't mind having but probably too expensive.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

In all seriousness, I like Mayo and would have no problem with him at 7 per. At this point, he would be our #1 player if Nash leaves, a role he's never had and I'd be curious to see how he works in that position. I don't think he should be "built around", but treated as a complimentary piece of a larger whole.

Agree about Brook Lopez. Wouldn't mind having him, but he's probably going to be twice as expensive as he's worth. Jamal Crawford shouldn't even be discussed. Gerald Wallace? Another guy I wouldn't mind having but probably too expensive.

C'mon Chap, you know how he'd work as a #1...awful. He's at best a good #3. Hell, he was at best the 4th best player on the Grizz, and you could argue easily that he was #5.

You know having him as a #1 and paying him as a #2 is somewhere beyond stupid.

 

[thephoenixson28]

I would rather compete for that 1 championship with the old guys then start rebuilding now. Everyone wants Nash to retire a Sun. Why not do it for a couple of years. What's the worst that can happen.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I would rather compete for that 1 championship with the old guys then start rebuilding now. Everyone wants Nash to retire a Sun. Why not do it for a couple of years. What's the worst that can happen.

the worst that can happen is they don't come close to contending for a title (which they won't), end up winning 50 games (probably at most) and are yet another year away from the rebuilding that has to happen.

tell me... when was the last time that a core of three guys averaging 37 years old ever won a title? when was the last a core that old even made the finals?

 

[Covert Rain]

the worst that can happen is they don't come close to contending for a title (which they won't), end up winning 50 games (probably at most) and are yet another year away from the rebuilding that has to happen.

tell me... when was the last time that a core of three guys averaging 37 years old ever won a title? when was the last a core that old even made the finals?

This.

That is a pretty big damn leap of faith that the core above could get it done. Isn't that what the Suns have been doing for years? Bringing in guys at the end of there careers to get that last piece?

When is enough...enough? It hasn't worked.

 

[Phrazbit]

I would rather compete for that 1 championship with the old guys then start rebuilding now. Everyone wants Nash to retire a Sun. Why not do it for a couple of years. What's the worst that can happen.

If the Suns had a chance to compete for a championship with Nash over the next 2 years I dont think anyone would have a problem with them going for it. But this geriatric team will not be a title contender, in the west they will struggle to even be a playoff contender.

The worst thing that could happen? The Suns continue to rot over the next 2 seasons and continue to attempt short term improvements that cause long term damage. By 2014 they are losing tons of money and playing to 10k fans a night. The team is sold to a billionaire from Seattle and by 2017 we lose them forever.

Thats the worst thing that could happen.

 

[thephoenixson28]

We won't know until they try....

 

[Covert Rain]

We won't know until they try....

We have tried this approach. How many times do you keep trying to go to the old man route before changing your approach???

 

[Cheesebeef]

We won't know until they try....

I know. and they have tried. and they've failed.

they tried with shaq. they tried with Grant Hill. They've tried with Michael Freaking Redd!

it's over. let it be over and for the love of God, let this team move on!

 

[JCSunsfan]

I know. and they have tried. and they've failed.

they tried with shaq. they tried with Grant Hill. They've tried with Michael Freaking Redd!

it's over. let it be over and for the love of God, let this team move on!

Its like an aging actress that thinks if she has one more little cosmetic surgery she can get another leading part.

Everyone else knows its over but her. At some point, it just gets pathetic.

 

[SirStefan32]

I know. and they have tried. and they've failed.

they tried with shaq. they tried with Grant Hill. They've tried with Michael Freaking Redd!

it's over. let it be over and for the love of God, let this team move on!

I couldn't agree more. Houston Rockets tried with Olajuwon, Barkley, and Drexler (and once more with Pippen). Those guys were even younger than Nash, Allen, and KG, and they were hell of a lot better too.

It's over. It was a great ride for several years, but honestly, it's been over for a couple of years already. We need to accept the fact that it's over, and start rebuilding for the future- for the next 5-10 years, and not for one more year.

 

[Joe Mama]

If I really thought we could get KG here for a two-year contract I would bring back Steve Nash and see what other over the hill veterans our training staff would attract. However I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell we can get KG. I just don't see anybody else we could get that would make us anything close to contenders.

Let Nash walk and get ready to suck this season. Short-term contracts up for some players we think we could coach up... guys who would increase their value getting good minutes here. At this point the best thing we can do is get one of the top picks in next year's draft. Use our cap space to help facilitate other deals that will land us young players with the promise and/or draft picks.

Unless we were somehow able to land a guy like KG or even Gasol to go along with a re-signed Steve Nash, Grant Hill, etc. the best we could hope for would be a spot in the playoffs somewhere 5-8. Since I think it's extremely unlikely we can get one of those guys we are best served starting our rebuild right now while OKC big three are still intact, San Antonio is still strong, and LA the same.

I just wish there was a way to land some young guys who haven't lived up to their potential. At least when we were bad before Nash we got to watch Amare and JJ develop. Right now it looks like we'll be watching Marshall and Morris. That's not exactly something I'm looking forward to doing.

Joe

 

[Joe Mama]

I couldn't agree more. Houston Rockets tried with Olajuwon, Barkley, and Drexler (and once more with Pippen). Those guys were even younger than Nash, Allen, and KG, and they were hell of a lot better too.

It's over. It was a great ride for several years, but honestly, it's been over for a couple of years already. We need to accept the fact that it's over, and start rebuilding for the future- for the next 5-10 years, and not for one more year.

wasn't that team also a long John Stockton jumper away from going to the finals?

 

[Cheesebeef]

wasn't that team also a long John Stockton jumper away from going to the finals?

that was in Game 6. And the next year, that team got blown out as an 8 seed. And all of those guys were still 34-5 years old, and had been healthy the majority of their careers. Nash is 97, KG is 36 and Allen is 37 and all of them have been breaking down for years, each missing significant chunks of time.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I just wish there was a way to land some young guys who haven't lived up to their potential. At least when we were bad before Nash we got to watch Amare and JJ develop. Right now it looks like we'll be watching Marshall and Morris. That's not exactly something I'm looking forward to doing.

Joe

this is what REALLY sucks. We're rebuilding with the most unathletic players... at the most athletic positions in the game. That's gonna be horrific to watch.

 

[JCSunsfan]

this is what REALLY sucks. We're rebuilding with the most unathletic players... at the most athletic positions in the game. That's gonna be horrific to watch.

We actually have some very athletic players. They just arent that good.
Warrick, Telfair, Brown, Brooks are all very athletic.

We have a couple of in the middle players like Morris, Frye, Gortat, and Lopez in his own way.

Then our better players are below average (for the nba) athletes: Dudley, Marshall.

After that its the old guys with old guy limitations: Nash, Hill, Redd.

 

[HooverDam]

We actually have some very athletic players. They just arent that good.
Warrick, Telfair, Brown, Brooks are all very athletic.

We have a couple of in the middle players like Morris, Frye, Gortat, and Lopez in his own way.

Then our better players are below average (for the nba) athletes: Dudley, Marshall.

After that its the old guys with old guy limitations: Nash, Hill, Redd.

Once Nash is gone, the Suns will have the worst/most depressing roster in the NBA. Even Charlotte, who may actual have less talent, has a more enviable roster because at least they have young athletes with upside. The Suns just have out and out junk or mediocrity at almost every slot.

Gortat is the only guy on the Suns I'd want on my team if I were a contender. I know he's not very popular around here, but he's obviously a better than average starting Center. I hope the Suns can flip him to a contender at the deadline for some building blocks.