Suns @ Jazz game thread 3-15-18

[JCSunsfan]

Suns don't have Canaan hanging around. He was released after his injury to create a roster spot. Shaq is a minimum contract (probably non-guaranteed), and Knight is a non-factor. Suns are stuck with his salary for another two seasons no matter what. You can't rely om Canaan, Shaq, and Knight to be your PG rotation, and this is coming from a guy who really likes Canaan and Harrison.

They said he Canaan would be around the team, using the training facilities etc, and they might consider resigning him in the summer.

 

[SirStefan32]

They said he Canaan would be around the team, using the training facilities etc, and they might consider resigning him in the summer.

Right, so he is an injured free agent.

 

[Hoop Head]

They said he Canaan would be around the team, using the training facilities etc, and they might consider resigning him in the summer.

It was said that he'd have a spot in training camp after he recovers from his injury. Whether he can make the team or not is up to his play but he didn't need to worry about anything other than rehab through the summer because the door would be open for a return.

Here is an article that says the Suns plan on him being ready to return to action by training camp. It seems odd that McD would speak with him the morning of his surgery, as the article states. McD was also in the locker room with him after he was stretchered off the court.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...-suns-isaiah-canaan-ankle-surgery/1086936001/

 

[BC867]

I'm not anxious to see Knight play PG again... maybe SG.

Somewhere else.

 

[Mainstreet]

Somewhere else.

This would probably the best case but I think the Suns will give him one more look as he has 2 more seasons left on his contract.

It would be nice to include him in a trade though.

 

[Chaplin]

Do we really want our primary backup PG to be a G-League phenom or a guy coming off a major knee surgery who is disliked by the fanbase anyway? How much is a quality backup PG worth? Shaq is fine, but as the primary backup on a potential playoff team? Definitely don't see that. Payton has definitely earned AT LEAST lead backup PG minutes, if not low-end starter minutes. How much is that worth?

And it is still generally held around the league that he was worth more than a 2nd rounder. Orlando has an inept front office that nobody can figure out. Not saying he's actually worth a lottery first-rounder, but Cameron Payne and Terry Rozier were mid-first rounders. And Payton is much better than them. So this whole thing about Payton being worth "only" a 2nd round pick is misleading.

 

[Mainstreet]

Do we really want our primary backup PG to be a G-League phenom or a guy coming off a major knee surgery who is disliked by the fanbase anyway? How much is a quality backup PG worth? Shaq is fine, but as the primary backup on a potential playoff team? Definitely don't see that. Payton has definitely earned AT LEAST lead backup PG minutes, if not low-end starter minutes. How much is that worth?

And it is still generally held around the league that he was worth more than a 2nd rounder. Orlando has an inept front office that nobody can figure out. Not saying he's actually worth a lottery first-rounder, but Cameron Payne and Terry Rozier were mid-first rounders. And Payton is much better than them. So this whole thing about Payton being worth "only" a 2nd round pick is misleading.

I was using the 2nd round pick value as a reason to keep him... in terms of his future contract likely being budget friendly.

I'd like to keep Payton if only as a backup PG.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I guess you have star

I was using the 2nd round pick value as a reason to keep him... in terms of his future contract likely being budget friendly.

I'd like to keep Payton if only as a backup PG.

I guess you have to start asking how much would you be willing to pay Payton and how many “budget” contracts can you afford that when added up will start to eat at cap room that eventually will have massive portions of I.T taken up by Bookers mega-deal and in a couple years, hopefully a big JJ extension. Especially if those “budget” starters end up being relegated to the bench?

For example... Warren as a starting small forward who can score is a solid deal at 10 mill/per. Warren as a 6th or 7th man? The contract doesn’t look quite as good. Same with a similar deal for Payton. If you have those guys on your bench possibly taking up 20 million in cap space you might have problems down the line.

And the fact that neither of them can shoot is an issue... especially considering theyre both perimeter players.

 

[Mainstreet]

I guess you have star


I guess you have to start asking how much would you be willing to pay Payton and how many “budget” contracts can you afford that when added up will start to eat at cap room that eventually will have massive portions of I.T taken up by Bookers mega-deal and in a couple years, hopefully a big JJ extension. Especially if those “budget” starters end up being relegated to the bench?

For example... Warren as a starting small forward who can score is a solid deal at 10 mill/per. Warren as a 6th or 7th man? The contract doesn’t look quite as good. Same with a similar deal for Payton. If you have those guys on your bench possibly taking up 20 million in cap space you might have problems down the line.

And the fact that neither of them can shoot is an issue... especially considering theyre both perimeter players.

I think the good news is that Chandler and Dudley are expiring contracts. If Knight does not show something his contract can be bought out and prorated over a number of years or simply left to expire. Getting rid of Bledsoe's contract was huge.

Also the Suns are in position to add some rookie contracts in the draft. Of course Booker comes up for an extension this summer so the Suns will probably be doing a balancing act of getting rookies, free agents and trades done before doing Booker’s deal. The key is getting it all done before extending Booker.

So the Suns need to be budget conscious but they are in position to lighten the load going forward if they do not overspend on role players. Good contracts can always be traded. Additionally most other teams have spent most of their money so it should make for a tight free agent market.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'd love to have Payton as a backup PG on a reasonable contract. But I really doubt he sees himself as a backup right now. He might have to fail at another place or two for him to accept that reality.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'd love to have Payton as a backup PG on a reasonable contract. But I really doubt he sees himself as a backup right now. He might have to fail at another place or two for him to accept that reality.

I'm not sure teams are going to pay Payton starter money. They could have had him for a second round draft pick like the Suns. PGs are not in huge demand especially for large dollar amounts and they are out there to be found. Payton is not maximizing his value with the Suns. JMHO

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm not sure teams are going to pay Payton starter money. They could have had him for a second round draft pick like the Suns. PGs are not in huge demand especially for large dollar amounts and they are out there to be found. Payton is not maximizing his value with the Suns. JMHO

I don't think anyone is going to rush in with a killer offer for Payton but a chance to start might make a one year make-good offer appealing to him.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I was using the 2nd round pick value as a reason to keep him... in terms of his future contract likely being budget friendly.

I'd like to keep Payton if only as a backup PG.

If we keep Payton as a backup, then we need to move BK, cut Ulis, let Isaiah Canaan be camp fodder only and if we draft a pg (with a later pic) let Shaq go as well. You just cannot have that much money tied up in the backup pg slot without a starting pg on the roster.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'd love to have Payton as a backup PG on a reasonable contract. But I really doubt he sees himself as a backup right now. He might have to fail at another place or two for him to accept that reality.

You don’t think getting traded for a second round pick or, I don’t know, reading his own stat lines is enough of a wake up call?

I think he has the talent, but something is getting in the way of his progress.

 

[Mainstreet]

You don’t think getting traded for a second round pick or, I don’t know, reading his own stat lines is enough of a wake up call?

I think he has the talent, but something is getting in the way of his progress.

And we know what.

 

[elindholm]

I brought up Jrue Holiday before and was shot down because he's too old and makes too much money. Has anyone changed their mind given his recent surge? He's averaging 23/5/8 since the All-Star Break while making 44% of his threes. (Yes, I know it's a small sample size.)

 

[Mainstreet]

If we keep Payton as a backup, then we need to move BK, cut Ulis, let Isaiah Canaan be camp fodder only and if we draft a pg (with a later pic) let Shaq go as well. You just cannot have that much money tied up in the backup pg slot without a starting pg on the roster.

Maybe a team like the Pistons. I haven't done any research.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think anyone is going to rush in with a killer offer for Payton but a chance to start might make a one year make-good offer appealing to him.

This is true.

 

[Mainstreet]

I brought up Jrue Holiday before and was shot down because he's too old and makes too much money. Has anyone changed their mind given his recent surge? He's averaging 23/5/8 since the All-Star Break while making 44% of his threes. (Yes, I know it's a small sample size.)

Yikes!

http://hoopshype.com/player/jrue-holiday/salary/

 

[AzStevenCal]

You don’t think getting traded for a second round pick or, I don’t know, reading his own stat lines is enough of a wake up call?

I think he has the talent, but something is getting in the way of his progress.

No, I don't, not at all. I could easily see himself blaming his fortunes on the shortcomings of the teams he's played for. He just turned 24 last month and he's never been surrounded by anything close to A level talent. I'd love to be wrong on this but anyone willing to block his own shot with his own hair isn't impressing me with his judgement.

 

[Mainstreet]

No, I don't, not at all. I could easily see himself blaming his fortunes on the shortcomings of the teams he's played for. He just turned 24 last month and he's never been surrounded by anything close to A level talent. I'd love to be wrong on this but anyone willing to block his own shot with his own hair isn't impressing me with his judgement.

I do not want to get into the hair thing but it hangs so low in front I can't help but think this effects his vision and his market value.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I do not want to get into the hair thing but it hangs so low in front I can't help but think this effects his vision and his market value.

I think it impacts his vision and might occasionally distract him. But that's just opinion, we don't really know for sure. We DO KNOW that it has impacted his shot as there is video evidence of it. And I agree, it impacts his market value too.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I brought up Jrue Holiday before and was shot down because he's too old and makes too much money. Has anyone changed their mind given his recent surge? He's averaging 23/5/8 since the All-Star Break while making 44% of his threes. (Yes, I know it's a small sample size.)

It is kind of amazing how some point guards develop so late. Nash was like that, so was Chauncy Billups. I don't think Chauncy really developed until his eighth year or so.

I could see maybe Elfrid developing late like that too, but it is such a risk.

 

[pokerface]

I think it impacts his vision and might occasionally distract him. But that's just opinion, we don't really know for sure. We DO KNOW that it has impacted his shot as there is video evidence of it. And I agree, it impacts his market value too.

A couple games ago I saw him shoot a free throw and his hand/arm hit his hair and he missed the free throw. I rewound the game to make sure and yeah it happened.


I'm just going to say it's a f'n embarassment to see him out on the court looking like that.

 

[SirStefan32]

I brought up Jrue Holiday before and was shot down because he's too old and makes too much money. Has anyone changed their mind given his recent surge? He's averaging 23/5/8 since the All-Star Break while making 44% of his threes. (Yes, I know it's a small sample size.)

Eh, don't care about his age, but his contract is ugly. I wouldn't touch that contract with a ten-foot pole. Twice as bad as Knight's, and twice as long too. No thanks.