Suns look to trade up to #2 for Williams

SunsTzu

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The Suns can't trade another #1 until they settle with Houston.

Houston is getting Orlando's 1st this year that the Suns got in the Gortat trade. The Suns would have sent their own pick had they made the playoffs but they don't owe any future 1st round picks right now.
 

asuhoopsnut

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Houston is getting Orlando's 1st this year that the Suns got in the Gortat trade. The Suns would have sent their own pick had they made the playoffs but they don't owe any future 1st round picks right now.

They can't trade two of their own first round picks in back to back years.
 

Folster

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This is just a re-hash of an earlier rumor. Every beat writer and columnist picks up on the orginal rumor, and we think that multiple sources are reporting talks when it's just one source.
 

desertdawg

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I just joined twitter a little ways back and I follow a bunch of the Suns. Here's a couple bits I remembered reading from Gortat. I know tweets don't hold much weight but it sounds like I will be stocking up on the Polish beer again this year.

MGortat Marcin Gortat



Btw.... I had productive dinner yesterday with aGM Lance !!! We gonna look strong next year! Cant wait to get back to basketball...

25 May Favorite Retweet Reply

»
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MGortat Marcin Gortat



Now Phx has to win champ. And i dont need anything else in my life:)

25 May Favorite Retweet Reply

Sounds to me like something might happen but The Machine will most likely be here for what i see as his ultra breakout year. Double doubles all season long. I also don't want to get rid of the winner winner Fryed chicken dinner and Studley is a must keep.

With all the elite teams being no longer elite, I really really doubt we move up to the #2. I'd bet we don't.
 

AzStevenCal

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They can't trade two of their own first round picks in back to back years.

I don't believe this is accurate. IIRC, the rule is solely against trading out of the first round in consecutive future years. It doesn't matter who's first round pick you have, as long as you have one. Also, you can trade every single first round pick, you just can't do consecutive years in the future. Come draft night (I believe it's as of each draft), you can trade your current pick and then continue to do so for every year following.

Steve
 

Arizona's Finest

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I think Derrick Williams has a chance to be awesome for two main reason.

1) He got so much better his two years at UA. And that is no coincidence. He works harder then everyone else and reallyreally cares. And its not like he has Jimmers body. He is is 6'8 and jumps out of the gym. He is the prototypical NBA SF.

2) And this is the biggest reason I think he is going to be good is because he gets to the FT line. That is the paramount skill in the NBA and Williams is damn good at it.

The only players I dont give up are Gortat or Nash or that 2012 pick.

Everyone else is available. Suns gotta take a chance and Williams is as solid a combo of production and potential as any.
 

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Yikes....I love Williams more than the next guy (see signature), but at the expense of Frye AND the #13?? No.

I'd be cool with Lopez (expendable at this point IMO), the #13 and a future pick, but I'm no GM nor do I pretend to be

But as long as Kahn is running the show in Minny, anything is possible.

Bro you wouldn't give up Channing for Williams??? What am I missing here?
 

AsUdUdE

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doing anything that would mess with 2012 is moronic...

Taking back MORE salary just to screw ourselves is as shortsided as signing Warrick/Childress/Hedo...

If this is a trade to blow up the team and shed salary, by all means lets go..

Offer Kahn Nash/Childress/Lopez for Flynn/#2/expiring contract

awesome.. oh wait they don't have a single expiring contract execpt if you trade for Beasley and dont pick up the option...

So no, you don't trade to take on more salary while mortaging the future...
 

TJ

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Bro you wouldn't give up Channing for Williams??? What am I missing here?

You know as well as I Williams is a tweener at the moment with no true position. He'll be put at 3, which is uncharted territory for him. It's gonna take time for him to adjust, especially on defense. Dont get me wrong, I still want the guy, but not at the expense of Frye, who can help stretch the defense for Williams to get inside and do his thing.

I just dont like the prospect of trading proven players who aren't part of the problem for rookies. If we're talking about another veteran and a pick, maybe.

Plus, dont you want as many Wildcats on the team as possible??

:cats:
 

Mainstreet

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You say you would rather have Gortat than Larry Johnson? :bang:

Okay, I'll give you Johnson. The mention of Beasley sent me the other way. Also the Suns are trying to get bigger and stronger defensively.
 

ASUCHRIS

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The only players I dont give up are Gortat or Nash or that 2012 pick.

Everyone else is available. Suns gotta take a chance and Williams is as solid a combo of production and potential as any.

Why wouldn't you trade Nash? Are you talking trade Nash in general or to Minnesota? No way he goes to Minnesota, but I'd be open to trading him if we get the right deal.

Sadly, short of Gortat or the 2012 pick, I don't think you can come up with a combo that would be attractive to Minnesota. I just can't imagine Channing/13/Lopez being enough. I don't think I'd throw in Dud, as that would be too much.
 

Mainstreet

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You have to be out of your mind to not protect a 2012 pick considering how good that draft is looking and adding the fact the Suns are a Nash season ending injury away from being one if of if not the worst teams in the league.

And I see no reason why they should be happy with Lopez and the #13. Lopez is an often injured big who can't rebound and regressed from year 2 to year 3 and the #13 in this draft is nothing to be excited about.

I'm open to adding protection to the 2012 pick, however, the more protection you give it the more unlikely the trade for #2 using two first round picks. As you note the Wolves have to be excited to do it. Also, the Suns have to be sold Williams will be a star. I'm not so sure unless he is used as a PF.
 

Mainstreet

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They can't trade two of their own first round picks in back to back years.

I believe it can be done during the draft so long as the Suns make the pick, then they can send the 2011 choice and the 2012 pick to another team. Obviously the Suns would have an understanding with the other team on what player to select.
 

SunsTzu

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They can't trade two of their own first round picks in back to back years.

The rule is you can't be without a future 1st round pick in consecutive years. As it stands the Suns owe no 1st round picks to anyone and have a 1st round pick this year so they can trade next years pick.
 

SunsTzu

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I'm open to adding protection to the 2012 pick, however, the more protection you give it the more unlikely the trade for #2 using two first round picks. As you note the Wolves have to be excited to do it. Also, the Suns have to be sold Williams will be a star. I'm not so sure unless he is used as a PF.

The only thing of value you are offering the Wolves is that future pick. I wouldn't do that because like I said the Suns are a losing Steve Nash play away from being a sub 20 win team and next years draft will likely be the best since 2003.
 

Covert Rain

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Yikes....I love Williams more than the next guy (see signature), but at the expense of Frye AND the #13?? No.

I'd be cool with Lopez (expendable at this point IMO), the #13 and a future pick, but I'm no GM nor do I pretend to be

But as long as Kahn is running the show in Minny, anything is possible.

What am I missing? Your basically throwing in Lopez and the trade really is for Frye and #13. That is not worth the #2?

I would take that deal in heartbeat.

Then say thanks but no thanks. The Wolves should be happy with Lopez, #13 and perhaps an unprotected 2012 pick.

Amen.

Then this should remove any talk about Gortat being in the equation. I would rather keep Gortat and #13.

Amen X2

You say you would rather have Gortat than Larry Johnson? :bang:

Why do you keep doing that? Why do you keep crowning every draft pick as the next player X? You keep justifying these trade scenarios with Gortat and every single trade scenario you quantify it by saying this pick or that pick will turn into the next player X.

You know as well as I Williams is a tweener at the moment with no true position. He'll be put at 3, which is uncharted territory for him. It's gonna take time for him to adjust, especially on defense. Dont get me wrong, I still want the guy, but not at the expense of Frye, who can help stretch the defense for Williams to get inside and do his thing.

I just dont like the prospect of trading proven players who aren't part of the problem for rookies. If we're talking about another veteran and a pick, maybe.

Plus, dont you want as many Wildcats on the team as possible??

:cats:

I absolutely agree he is a tweener and that is what makes me nervous about him. At SF? Man, I keep hearing people say that but man his game doesn't look like a SF. I guess he could turn into one but I don't see it right now.

By the way, the Suns weakness is on the boards, interior defense and having no game offensively in the paint. How can you say Frye is not part of the problem. He is part of the problem. He doesn't excel at anything other than the 3 point shot.

I would cringe at a front line of Lopez/Frye/Williams. One of the worst rebounding and defending front lines in the NBA.
 
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AsUdUdE

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According to this, the Twolves called the Suns before the trade deadline to inquire about Nash, and are now looking for a vet to mentor their new acquisition, 20 year old Rubio.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/wolves/123069983.html

From an organization stand point, trading Nash for the the #2 pick is a good starting point to rebuild...

But the Suns owe it to Nash to help him have a say for where he goes, and I am pretty sure Minnesota is #30 out of 30 NBA teams on where he would consider playing...

unfortunantly..
 

asuhoopsnut

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The rule is you can't be without a future 1st round pick in consecutive years. As it stands the Suns owe no 1st round picks to anyone and have a 1st round pick this year so they can trade next years pick.

No ..... you are not following what guys are suggesting on this thread. They are suggesting that we trade our first round pick in 2011 and our first round pick in 2012. The NBA has a rule that states you can’t trade your first round pick in back to back years. Can't be done and can't be circumvented like Mainstreet is suggesting.
 

AsUdUdE

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No ..... you are not following what guys are suggesting on this thread. They are suggesting that we trade our first round pick in 2011 and our first round pick in 2012. The NBA has a rule that states you can’t trade your first round pick in back to back years. Can't be done and can't be circumvented like Mainstreet is suggesting.

But you get around this by the Suns drafting the player the Wolves want and completing the trade after the draft, so they could in theory send their 2011 and 2012 draft picks...

But sending them anything in 2012 is RIDICULOUS..
 

SunsTzu

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No ..... you are not following what guys are suggesting on this thread. They are suggesting that we trade our first round pick in 2011 and our first round pick in 2012. The NBA has a rule that states you can’t trade your first round pick in back to back years. Can't be done and can't be circumvented like Mainstreet is suggesting.

You are mistaken. In the scenario posted the Suns will have a draft pick this year(the #2). Since they are drafting in the 1st round this year they can trade next years pick.
 

asuhoopsnut

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From an organization stand point, trading Nash for the the #2 pick is a good starting point to rebuild...

But the Suns owe it to Nash to help him have a say for where he goes, and I am pretty sure Minnesota is #30 out of 30 NBA teams on where he would consider playing...

unfortunantly..

I do not agree! First, let me say that I am a big time Nash fan! With that being said, they don't owe Nash anything. He is extremely well paid and this is a business. They do however owe it to the fans that buy tickets and merchandise, to try to consistently better the product/team for the future. Nash is near the end of his playing career, and if the Suns can better their team for the future by trading Nash, they have got to do it.
 
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asuhoopsnut

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You are mistaken. In the scenario posted the Suns will have a draft pick this year(the #2). Since they are drafting in the 1st round this year they can trade next years pick.

What you are saying makes sense, because they would still have a first round pick.
 

elindholm

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The NBA has a rule that states you can’t trade your first round pick in back to back years.

No it doesn't. The rule is that you can't, at any one point in time, be without a future first-round pick for two consecutive years. The Suns could trade their pick in this draft, then trade their 2012 pick as soon as the 2011 draft is over. You are correct that they could not trade both picks in advance of the 2011 draft (unless getting at least one first-round pick for either 2011 or 2012 back).
 

SunsTzu

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I know it's been explained a few times already but it always seems to be a point of confusion so here is the rule:

Teams are restricted from trading away future first round draft picks in consecutive years. This is known as the "Ted Stepien Rule." Stepien owned the Cavs from 1980-83, and made a series of bad trades (such as the above-mentioned 1982 trade) that cost the Cavs several years' first round picks. As a result of Stepien's ineptitude, teams are now prevented from making trades which might leave them without a first round pick in consecutive future years.

The Stepien rule applies only to future first round picks. For example, if this is the 2005-06 season, then a team can trade its 2006 first round pick without regard to whether they had traded their 2005 pick, since their 2005 pick is no longer a future pick. But they can't trade away both their 2006 and 2007 picks, since both are future picks. Teams sometimes work around this rule by trading first round picks in alternate years.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm
 

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