Suns look to trade up to #2 for Williams

[asuhoopsnut]

But you get around this by the Suns drafting the player the Wolves want and completing the trade after the draft, so they could in theory send their 2011 and 2012 draft picks...

But sending them anything in 2012 is RIDICULOUS..

I agree that they should not give up their 2012. That draft will be loaded with talent.

 

[sunsfan88]

Suns would likely have to part ways with Gortat or Nash to have a shot at landing the #2 pick.

Minnesota also wants Nash to mentor Rubio.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Hoopsworld has an article by a non suns fan suggesting minny trade the #2 and Love for Nash. Its fun to dream sometimes.

 

[Mulli]

Hoopsworld has an article by a non suns fan suggesting minny trade the #2 and Love for Nash. Its fun to dream sometimes.

Throw in Lopez!

 

[Mainstreet]

I know it's been explained a few times already but it always seems to be a point of confusion so here is the rule:



http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

Notice the quote you note refers to "picks." I agree the Suns could not trade the 2011 and 2012 "picks" together. However as Eric noted as well, the Suns could draft a 2011 selection and trade that player and the 2012 pick after the draft. Although as I recall, it can be announced during the draft. The key is the Suns have to draft a player in the first round (it can be for another team) before that player and the 2012 pick can be sent to another team.

It's ironic this discussion involves a player in Williams I am not sold on unless he projects and accepts the role of a PF... and even then I would worry he is a tweener. IMO, the Suns need a PF, SG or an heir apparent for Nash at PG.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Notice the quote you note refers to "picks." I agree the Suns could not trade the 2011 and 2012 "picks" together. However as Eric noted as well, the Suns could draft a 2011 selection and trade that player and the 2012 pick after the draft. Although as I recall, it can be announced during the draft. The key is the Suns have to draft a player in the first round (it can be for another team) before that player and the 2012 pick can be sent to another team.

It's ironic this discussion involves a player in Williams I am not sold on unless he projects and accepts the role of a PF... and even then I would worry he is a tweener. IMO, the Suns need a PF, SG or an heir apparent for Nash at PG.

Even in weak drafts, the hype just builds. I am not sure there is any really significant impact player in this draft, including Irving and Williams. This is not a draft in which you want to be trading reasonably young established players for picks.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Throw in Lopez!

Can we also include Warrick in the deal? We'll even spring for the two Hefty Trash bags to put them in.

Steve

 

[devilalum]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't ther a rumor every year about the Suns trying to trade up in the draft? Honestly I cant remember another team that is involved in these rumors as much as the Suns. The real draft day deals seem to come out of nowhere.

Maybe teams talk to the Suns as a starting point to establish value for their pick.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Before everyone gets their hopes up, consider that the likely outcome is that the Suns make the trade pre-draft on MIN's demands and CLE goes with Williams at #1 anyway. Now what? Irving at #2? Another 12 years of PG-driven basketball?

 

[asuhoopsnut]

Before everyone gets their hopes up, consider that the likely outcome is that the Suns make the trade pre-draft on MIN's demands and CLE goes with Williams at #1 anyway. Now what? Irving at #2? Another 12 years of PG-driven basketball?

Absolutely! I would take Irving in a heartbeat.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Well, I would as well, except that I would immediately want to convert Nash into a frontcourt asset (PF) or send Nash to TOR for #5 to get Biyombo. I would NOT want a #2 PG pick backing up Nash. Give him the reins immediately....

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Irving-FA/trade-Frye-Biyombo-Gortat

Run a zone and we have our D set. Bring Dudley off as the 6th and let Hill decide his own role. Childress/Pietrus/Warrick are great as long as they are 9-11 in the rotation and nothing higher....

 

[JCSunsfan]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't ther a rumor every year about the Suns trying to trade up in the draft? Honestly I cant remember another team that is involved in these rumors as much as the Suns. The real draft day deals seem to come out of nowhere.

Maybe teams talk to the Suns as a starting point to establish value for their pick.

Its the first Babby draft, so who knows what will happen. As a Suns fan for years I used to love the off season. There was always something incredible happening--Tom Chambers, Barkley, Danny Manning, etc. These past few years I keep kicking myself for even paying attention. There is so much talk and the eventual results range from disappointing to infuriating.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Before everyone gets their hopes up, consider that the likely outcome is that the Suns make the trade pre-draft on MIN's demands and CLE goes with Williams at #1 anyway. Now what? Irving at #2? Another 12 years of PG-driven basketball?

Even better.

 

[SunsTzu]

Notice the quote you note refers to "picks." I agree the Suns could not trade the 2011 and 2012 "picks" together. However as Eric noted as well, the Suns could draft a 2011 selection and trade that player and the 2012 pick after the draft. Although as I recall, it can be announced during the draft. The key is the Suns have to draft a player in the first round (it can be for another team) before that player and the 2012 pick can be sent to another team.

It's ironic this discussion involves a player in Williams I am not sold on unless he projects and accepts the role of a PF... and even then I would worry he is a tweener. IMO, the Suns need a PF, SG or an heir apparent for Nash at PG.

Again the rule is you cannot be without a future 1st round pick in consecutive years. So the Suns are perfectly fine trading both the 2011 and 2012 picks at any time as long as it returns another 1st round pick in one of those years(like acquiring the #2 pick this year).

Only reason they would need to wait until after drafting the player to include next years 1st is if they were not getting a 1st round pick back.

 

[Mainstreet]

Again the rule is you cannot be without a future 1st round pick in consecutive years. So the Suns are perfectly fine trading both the 2011 and 2012 picks at any time as long as it returns another 1st round pick in one of those years(like acquiring the #2 pick this year).

Only reason they would need to wait until after drafting the player to include next years 1st is if they were not getting a 1st round pick back.

Again if the Suns use their 2011 first round pick to draft a "player" that will be later traded to another team and then trade that "player" with the 2012 first round pick, they would not be without a first round pick in consecutive seasons. The key is the Suns will have to make the 2011 selection for a "player."

Anyway, I'm not sold on the idea of moving up for Williams.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Again the rule is you cannot be without a future 1st round pick in consecutive years. So the Suns are perfectly fine trading both the 2011 and 2012 picks at any time as long as it returns another 1st round pick in one of those years(like acquiring the #2 pick this year).

Only reason they would need to wait until after drafting the player to include next years 1st is if they were not getting a 1st round pick back.

This is correct. Any first round pick satisfies the requirement. It does not have to be the Suns own pick.

 

[SunsTzu]

Again if the Suns use their 2011 first round pick to draft a "player" that will be later traded to another team and then trade that "player" with the 2012 first round pick, they would not be without a first round pick in consecutive seasons. The key is the Suns will have to make the 2011 selection for a "player."

Anyway, I'm not sold on the idea of moving up for Williams.

Not sure where the misunderstanding is but the Suns are able to trade the 13th pick this year and next years first for the #2 this year any time they want. They have no need to wait until after drafting a player.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Not sure where the misunderstanding is but the Suns are able to trade the 13th pick this year and next years first for the #2 this year any time they want. They have no need to wait until after drafting a player.

You are correct. If I've understood it properly, they would only need to wait for draft night in this scenario if they had traded out of first round picks the prior year and even then, only if that one had been moved in advance of the selection.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

Not sure where the misunderstanding is but the Suns are able to trade the 13th pick this year and next years first for the #2 this year any time they want. They have no need to wait until after drafting a player.

Although that's true, it's moot, because trades involving picks right around draft time virtually always take place after the picks have been made, even though the "new" team specifies which player to take.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Why wouldn't you trade Nash? Are you talking trade Nash in general or to Minnesota? No way he goes to Minnesota, but I'd be open to trading him if we get the right deal.

Sadly, short of Gortat or the 2012 pick, I don't think you can come up with a combo that would be attractive to Minnesota. I just can't imagine Channing/13/Lopez being enough. I don't think I'd throw in Dud, as that would be too much.

If we get Williams I want a guy like Nash showing him the ropes and to your point, I don't see the point in discussing it because Nash won't go to Minny.

I'll say this. If Williams is drafted #2 and Nash is here i guaran-damn-tee you he is ROY. Not even a question in my mind.

 

[Mainstreet]

Not sure where the misunderstanding is but the Suns are able to trade the 13th pick this year and next years first for the #2 this year any time they want. They have no need to wait until after drafting a player.

At this point I'm not worried about who's right anymore.

However, if the Suns traded two consecutive first round picks now, 2011 and 2012 before the draft they would be in violation of the consecutive years clause. It has to be made on draft night or later.

 

[Cheesebeef]

we must be OUTRAGEOUSLY desperate to talk about something. this team has literally nothing on it they could trade to get the #2 pick in the draft.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

You know as well as I Williams is a tweener at the moment with no true position. He'll be put at 3, which is uncharted territory for him. It's gonna take time for him to adjust, especially on defense. Dont get me wrong, I still want the guy, but not at the expense of Frye, who can help stretch the defense for Williams to get inside and do his thing.

I just dont like the prospect of trading proven players who aren't part of the problem for rookies. If we're talking about another veteran and a pick, maybe.

Plus, dont you want as many Wildcats on the team as possible??

I'm confused bro. No I don't agree at all about Williams being a "tweener". I actually think he is a better NBA player then college player which is saying something. I think he played inside in 2010 because there were no effective big men on the Cats and the role you saw him play this year (more handling of ball, flying around to block shots, shooting 3's) is what well see in the NBA then his post dominated game of 2010.

The player I see him most being like other then mayeb Danny Granger is.....wait for it wait for it....Lebron. Now he has nowhere near the passing ability and defensive game of Lebron and isn't as physcially gifted but his size, length, shot blocking ability, ability to get to the line, hops, and improved shooting touch all remind me of the King. Let me repeat I am not saying Williams will be as good as Lebron, or even close but I see Williams being a physical small forward who will get to the line. That is a premium in the NBA.

And Williams has more talent in his pinkie the Channing Frye has in his body. I feel pretty good about Williams maybe being ROY next year depending on the team he gets on and Channing wouldn't ever get that type of accolade. Frye seems to have gone from being unfailry lambasted by fans here to unreasonably held in high regard. I mean i like Frye and hes a stud off the bench on a good team whereas Williams should be a starter for years to come. Williams may not be a franchise guy, but he absolutely has the ability to be a Danny Granger/Andre Iguodala type player.

Frye, Dudley, Childress, Lopez, Warrick, S & T Brooks, Pietrus....man I give up any of those guys in a new york minute. Of course I would prefer to give up Lopez and a bag of basketballs, but I am not turning down Minny if they hold a hard line to Frye or Dudley - who I think both have real value to that team.

I totally agree on the defense part. That is his biggest weakness. Which makes him an even better fit for the Suns

Im shocked I'm having this convo with you homey! You know how good he is and even have him in your sig? You think Frye is/will be the better player???? Do I need to resend you the season highlights and specifically the Duke game??

 

[AsUdUdE]

we must be OUTRAGEOUSLY desperate to talk about something. this team has literally nothing on it they could trade to get the #2 pick in the draft.

lol.. yup