Suns News

[PhxGametime]

Still some tread


Johnson has made a running joke this season about the "tread" left on Williams, the most veteran of the centers.

Williams signed a one-year deal during the summer and said he hopes to return next season.

"I'd definitely love the opportunity," he said. "I'm optimistic. I feel like this team has been a perfect fit for me as a player and a person.

"Nobody has told me directly whether they'll want me back, but (club President/general manager) Bryan Colangelo asked me how I was feeling and what I was thinking."


No-brainer


Forward Tom Gugliotta said he will not exercise an option out of the final year of his contract. He is due to be paid $11.69 million next season.

"If you hear that I said yes to that, have me checked in," he cracked. "I didn't even remember I had that (option) until my agent mentioned it recently."

 

[slinslin]

Well the news on Googs suck. I just hope he doesn't ruin our team chemistry riding the bench another season.

Hopefully the Colangelo's think this team is worth spending the money and trade Googs when he is valueable in his last year for a package that can help us.

 

[ThatsAmare]

Damn that pisses me off. How can Googs possibly think he deserves that money after already crippling the Suns for so many years with his salary and subsequent lack of production.

I understand that it would be hard to turn down that money, but come on! Hasn't he bleeded the organization enough already? He's already got enough money from the Suns to buy his own State, and he spent half the time "earning" that money sitting on his ass, and the other half playing sub-standard ball.

We really could have used that money to get a good backup FA or 2. Now we're going to be over the tax threshhold because of him, and have a weak bench next season to boot.

And yes I am angry.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by ThatsAmare
Damn that pisses me off. How can Googs possibly think he deserves that money after already crippling the Suns for so many years with his salary and subsequent lack of production.

I understand that it would be hard to turn down that money, but come on! Hasn't he bleeded the organization enough already? He's already got enough money from the Suns to buy his own State, and he spent half the time "earning" that money sitting on his ass, and the other half playing sub-standard ball.

We really could have used that money to get a good backup FA or 2. Now we're going to be over the tax threshhold because of him, and have a weak bench next season to boot.

And yes I am angry.

Keep in mind that most of Tom Gugliotta's injury problems are a result of having his knee wiped out by Randy Livingston. It's not like he had bad knees that he claimed were in great condition (Hardaway) then spent game after game on the injured list.

I would think the chances of Tom Gugliotta being traded for anything our next to nil. The Suns need the cap relief is expiring contract will provide after next season. I think they'll hope that he can contribute a little of the bench next season.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

Well, so much for adding any free agents for next season. I had really hoped that Gugliotta would have more sense of honor. I say park his ass on the IR all next season and let him think about his real value to the organization.

 

[NDSunsfan]

They say everything has it's price, I would say my price for honor would be about $10 million. I don't blame Googs a bit. It stinks for the organization, but we always want the players to honor their contract instead of holding out and wanting to renegotiate, it has to be true for the team in paying what it said it would.

We should be angry at the front office for negotiating such a crappy deal for the team.

Hmmm, be paid 11+ million to be on the bench in Phoenix during the winter, or get 1.5 million to be a 9th man in Cleveland or Denver or some other team. What would you choose????

I'm with Googs.


Brad

 

[elindholm]

I would say my price for honor would be about $10 million.

Even if you already had $60 million? $10 million for you or me would dramatically change our lives. For Gugliotta, it just means he can run the A/C a few degrees lower in the summers.

 

[NDSunsfan]

that is true. i'm currently about 9.99 million short of 10 million, so it might be a matter of perspective.

 

[fordronken]

Trust me. It still matters. Wait, I didn't mean "trust me" as if I had ten million dollars to spare. Don't get the wrong impression. However, one seventh of your projected total income is still worth a lot to you. Plus, I'm sure he has spent a lot of that already, has given some money to charity, and had things planned to spend it on. Yes it's a crap load of money, and yes, he could live perfectly well for the rest of his life without it, but it isn't like he's depriving the children of the world from their bubblegum. As far as he's concerned, it's just one rich white guy taking money from an even richer white guy. And don't play the honor card, here. It's helping out a team that he isn't even gonna play for,(whether he opts our or not) or...ten million dollars.

 

[Wally]

It seems like they could negotiate a buy out on the last year and spread the payment over a period of years, which could reduce the taxes as well as the Suns cap. A lesser amount spread out over years could possibly net Googs as much money depending on how his finances are structured. I'm not a finance wiz by any means but I'm sure they must be looking at this possibility.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by Wally
It seems like they could negotiate a buy out on the last year and spread the payment over a period of years, which could reduce the taxes as well as the Suns cap. A lesser amount spread out over years could possibly net Googs as much money depending on how his finances are structured. I'm not a finance wiz by any means but I'm sure they must be looking at this possibility.

I think I would rather have it all come off next year. Dont forget marion contract kicks in next year, I would rather take a one year luxury tax hit instead of multiple. I dont think that teams can restructure contracts anyways, even with players agreement

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by elindholm
I say park his ass on the IR all next season and let him think about his real value to the organization.

I agree with that.

 

[SweetD]

This is why I like the NFL no contract is guaranteed. If he sucks cut is ass.

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by SweetD
This is why I like the NFL no contract is guaranteed. If he sucks cut is ass.

I like that too. I've said it before and I'll say it again....Contracts should be negotiated on how well a player performs. Let the player pay for insurance in case of injury. I keep hearing quotes that the NBA is a business - They should run it like it really is. How many people other than US government workers (oxymoron) and school teachers with tenure would hang onto their job if they didn't perform?

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by Wally
I like that too. I've said it before and I'll say it again....Contracts should be negotiated on how well a player performs. Let the player pay for insurance in case of injury. I keep hearing quotes that the NBA is a business - They should run it like it really is. How many people other than US government workers (oxymoron) and school teachers with tenure would hang onto their job if they didn't perform?

I don't think the problem with the NBA is the guaranteed contracts as much as it is the size and length of contracts. In the normal business world and organization would be able to fire Tom Gugliotta, but they also wouldn't be able to keep their good players from going elsewhere. It's not a normal business environment.

Can you imagine the size of the signing bonuses if the NBA did their contracts like the NFL?

I think if the players are going to make as much money as they do that team should get an option after four years of a maximum contract. Of course that will never happen.

Joe Mama

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

For some reason I remember reading something about the whole guaranteed contract issue around the all star game. I think there was some talk of in a new or ammended current CBA that they may make contracts guaranteed for only part of the length. FOr example, Hardaway's contract would have been guarenteed for only the first 3 or 4 years, then then team options on the ending 3. Obviously there are a lot of different ways that idea could be handled, but I think that it makes sense. It gives the players security, but not for 7 years. However it still lets the team lock a player up for the long term.

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by Joe Mama

It's not a normal business environment.

Joe Mama

That is where the problem lies.

I've been in business since 1974 and have negotiated many contracts. Tell me why these professionals can't be treated like other professionals. Maybe I'm looking at this upside down but it seems to me if contracts were based upon performance which would be judged by the owner(s) and the player could walk (after arbitration) if he didn't agree, it could work. Injuries could be covered by insurance plans. I know it’s not that simple but the situation has gotten out of control and that is why we now have the salary cap.

Perhaps the cost of tickets could get to the point where you wouldn't need to be a corporation writing off a business deduction or an individual up to their eyeballs in credit card debt.

 

[notakiddfan1]

Honor? You wanna talk about honor?

Honor is sustaining the worst knee injury in perfessional sports history, and staying optimistic about it.

Honor is coming back from an injury that should've taken 12 - 13 months to heal, and coming back in 8 because he worked harder than anyone you've ever seen day in and day out during his rehibilitation.

Honor is being a person that most consider one of the "good-guys" around the league.

Honor is taking $20 million less to come to Phoenix instead of staying in Minnesota because he believed in what this team was doing at the time.

Honor is Tom Gugliota.

How can some of you guys possibly say that the NBA should be more like the normal business world, and in the same sentence say that you expect Tom Gugliota to waive 90% of his salary for the curtesy of his employer? Tell me a single person who has ever done that in the history of the capitalist economy and I'll join in in the unwarranted Tom Gugliota bashing. Just one!

Tom Gugliota was an all-star in the NBA, and he was going to be an olympian. With his work-ethic and stellar attitude, he could've been one of the great power forwards in NBA history. And he's supposed to appologize for injury-wise being the most unlucky NBA basketball players ever? I don't have to tell you guys that Tom's knee injury was a fluke of dumb luck (it wasn't even Randy Livingston's fault.. you know, the guy we all have vodoo dolls of and stick pins in every game Tom doesn't play.)

Some of you need to check yourselves and realize who the selfish person is. Is it Tom Gugliota, the nice guy, the hard worker, the one we all used to lovingly call, "Googs", or is it you guys, who expect Tom Gugliota to lose money because it might benefit you and your favorite team?

 

[SweetD]

I have no problem with Googs taking his option heck if I was in his position to get a 11mil guaranteed paycheck just by signing my name sure I would do it. IMO the NBA should not lock themselves into guaranteed contacts. Sure they the Team it's self makes a lot of money but if you had contact like the NFL all teams would be completive not just the ones with money to spend. Plus they may actually get more money if they perform well plus there would be a much higher revenue sharing with the players. I have done allot of business with NBA organizations and players and neither one managers their money well.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Googs could have been one of the great power forwards in NBA history? Huh? That is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard. Your apprasial of him would lead many to believe that he is a lock for canonization. Googs at his best was a good complimentary role player, and everybody knows his success in Minnesota was due to the fact that he was a third option, and was playing with Garnett. The only reason the Suns even signed Googs was because of the McDyess fiasco, which made them panic, and sign Googs to a ridiculous contract. The Iraqi information minister couldn't even justify Googs deserving 11 million next year, it is absolute highway robbery.

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by ASUCHRIS
Googs could have been one of the great power forwards in NBA history? Huh?

WOW that is a crazy notion.. Sorry dude Googs could have never been that good.

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by notakiddfan1
Honor? You wanna talk about honor?

Honor is sustaining the worst knee injury in perfessional sports history, and staying optimistic about it.

Honor is coming back from an injury that should've taken 12 - 13 months to heal, and coming back in 8 because he worked harder than anyone you've ever seen day in and day out during his rehibilitation.

Honor is being a person that most consider one of the "good-guys" around the league.

Honor is taking $20 million less to come to Phoenix instead of staying in Minnesota because he believed in what this team was doing at the time.

Honor is Tom Gugliota.

How can some of you guys possibly say that the NBA should be more like the normal business world, and in the same sentence say that you expect Tom Gugliota to waive 90% of his salary for the curtesy of his employer? Tell me a single person who has ever done that in the history of the capitalist economy and I'll join in in the unwarranted Tom Gugliota bashing. Just one!

Tom Gugliota was an all-star in the NBA, and he was going to be an olympian. With his work-ethic and stellar attitude, he could've been one of the great power forwards in NBA history. And he's supposed to appologize for injury-wise being the most unlucky NBA basketball players ever? I don't have to tell you guys that Tom's knee injury was a fluke of dumb luck (it wasn't even Randy Livingston's fault.. you know, the guy we all have vodoo dolls of and stick pins in every game Tom doesn't play.)

Some of you need to check yourselves and realize who the selfish person is. Is it Tom Gugliota, the nice guy, the hard worker, the one we all used to lovingly call, "Googs", or is it you guys, who expect Tom Gugliota to lose money because it might benefit you and your favorite team?

I'm not sure to whom you are directing this post. You are combining posts of several individuals in order to state your point of view. The problem with that is it distorts the sitituation. I stated that PERHAPS the NBA should be more like the normal business world. Never did I say he should give up the money he has coming to him according to his contract. I also agree with all that you said about Googs.

Contracts are for both parties and should be negotiated to cover many senerios. Googs would be a fool to walk away from the money, but if it were possible to spread it out over a period of time making it benificial to both parties, then it should be looked at in a normal business like manner.

 

[elindholm]

My word, notakiddfan1, do you write for soap operas? Pass the Kleenex.

Honor is sustaining the worst knee injury in perfessional sports history, and staying optimistic about it.

Honor is coming back from an injury that should've taken 12 - 13 months to heal, and coming back in 8 because he worked harder than anyone you've ever seen day in and day out during his rehibilitation... (etc.)

Let's be clear about this. For Gugliotta to undertake his rehabilitation responsibly was the right thing to do. Good for him. But it was the only ethical thing to do. Had he dogged it or used it as an excuse to retire early, that would have been beyond dishonorable and into reprehensible. Yes, there are NBA players who are that dishonorable, and we should be glad that Gugliotta is not one of them. But he doesn't get any bonus points for a middle-of-the road sense of professional responsibility.

How can some of you guys possibly say that the NBA should be more like the normal business world, and in the same sentence say that you expect Tom Gugliota to waive 90% of his salary for the curtesy of his employer?

I don't believe anyone said that in the same sentence.

Tell me a single person who has ever done that in the history of the capitalist economy and I'll join in in the unwarranted Tom Gugliota bashing. Just one!

I can give you two without even thinking: Mark McGwire and Bob Knight. I'm sure there are many others.

Is it Tom Gugliota, the nice guy, the hard worker, the one we all used to lovingly call, "Googs", or is it you guys, who expect Tom Gugliota to lose money because it might benefit you and your favorite team?

Get a hold of yourself. I never "lovingly" called Gugliotta anything. Give me a damn break. This is a sports team, not a love affair. Yes, I support the Suns, and I probably get way too emotionally wrapped up in them. But this whole pretend-intimacy thing of nicknames and first names really seems over the top. I have always felt that way.

But yes, of course I'm thinking about how Gugliotta might benefit the team. If he were a true team player, he would too. Back before the NBA disallowed it, it was commonplace for players on big salaries to re-work their contracts, agreeing to take most of the money later, so that the team could improve right away. Barkley did this so that the Rockets could sign Pippen, as I recall.

Gugliotta's problem is that he doesn't want to admit that he can't play anymore. I am entirely sympathetic to that: it must be hell to be forced away from something you've done so well for your entire life, especially if you know in your gut that your career is ending too soon. But all of Gugliotta's commitment, optimism, and good cheer can't change the simple fact that he's done. He is trying to put off facing that for as long as possible, and that is why he's taking his option.

And I'd be willing to bet that, ten years from now, Gugliotta will regret this decision. He'll have made $13 million (or whatever) more in his career, but he'll have alienated a franchise and an entire city in the process. As he reflects on what it meant for him to be an NBA player, I think he'll realize he made the wrong choice.

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by SweetD
WOW that is a crazy notion.. Sorry dude Googs could have never been that good.

SweetD.... I missed that part. that never could have happened, but I don't believe you can fault his work ethic and he would be a fool to walk away from the money.

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by SweetD
I have no problem with Googs taking his option heck if I was in his position to get a 11mil guaranteed paycheck just by signing my name sure I would do it. IMO the NBA should not lock themselves into guaranteed contacts. Sure they the Team it's self makes a lot of money but if you had contact like the NFL all teams would be completive not just the ones with money to spend. Plus they may actually get more money if they perform well plus there would be a much higher revenue sharing with the players. I have done allot of business with NBA organizations and players and neither one managers their money well.

Yep I agree with you Wally. Googs and the Suns did a contact and they both agreed to it. Unfortunately not everyone has the physic mind as I do. Now you want to tade for who hcsilla